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Messages - Szabo

Quote from: Side-Oilers on February 17, 2024, 05:28:34 PM
Interesting coincidence (?) in the 1966 Santa Barbara race program that Brett posted:  Michael Szabo, Cortina driver. 

Any relation to our own Stephan "Szabo"?

;D Now you got me, i am a time traveller and race for fun in the 60´s  ;D

Thats what i wish, but this is really funny that the "Szabo" name appears in the list
my Nickname comes from a Name in a comedy about a person who´s named Szabo and is
given by friends of mine.

Quote from: SFM66H on February 19, 2024, 05:40:10 PM
First off - THANK YOU Stephan (Szabo) for sharing / posting the incredible new-to-us photos of the Kamm tail GT350, especially that one of it at Hi-Performance Motors on Sepulveda!!! (HPM 2). That one really made my year!! I've said several times on this Forum that the greatest thrill for me in this hobby is that the start of every new year reveals photos that were previously unknown to us, and that the thrill of that has never faded for me.

It got George Watters & I to restart previous discussions we have had about HPM 2, and when I resent him that rear view of a GT350 parked outside with the dealership in the background, he added some great directional location info. I took his information and rotated / reworked an aerial photo that I probably had posted on Forum 1.0 back in the day.

Here are George's words, and then the photo that I reworked (with added directional lines):

"The close up rear shot of the '65 GT 350 is the one that you can the exterior of HPM 2 building. The camera is facing South so we see the North side of the showroom. I think that this picture is the only one that I have ever seen that actually shows part of the exterior of the showroom. Again we are facing South. Sepulveda Blvd would be to the left. If you look very closely you can see the side street sign that should say Walnut. ( look closely in the middle of the rear window just above the right top stripe ) Basically looking right thru the small showroom. This was the small street next to HPM and it ran East, West. Sepulveda Blvd ran North, South." 


Hello Kieth and George

I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your afford and contact with me,
always a big help to understand all these little things.

Great to read that you have new points to speak over HPM2

and yes, it is a thrill, it drives me crazy in my brain to find new stuff and find the backround storys of all the
points in time.

Quote from: J_Speegle on February 20, 2024, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 20, 2024, 07:18:52 AM
Talking about the Rear Spoiler, My Memory is not as good as it used to be but, I remember a story a while back, either here or in Mustang Monthly Magazine about a man who designed the Trunk Spoiler,  He had a Red 65/66 Mustang Fastback.  The Decklid and End Caps were one piece.

There has been discussions about who first designed the spoilered trunk lids. Seems to be a fair number of fastbacks with the design all around the same time. Here are some examples

Dearborn Steel Mustang II that traveled around the country with Fords Custom Caravan. More of a shelf with a raised back edge

Bud Anderson built five custom fastbacks that toured around the country. All with a spoiler rear trunk lid area. Here are two of them

This white one, when sold after showing received one of the first Fiberfab front ends. It remained in that buyers ownership into the 1990's. Berry Plastic's used a rear shot of this white Grand American in at least one ad prior to coming up with their own design shown below. As we can read according to this report in the news paper the inspiration was the GT40

Another of the five

Berry Plastic's (provider of the 67 Shelby fiberglass) design

And a white fastback of the one piece that never caught on for a number of reasons

Since all (but the Dearborn Steel car) used production 65 fastbacks its difficult to determine IMHO which came first

Fantastic complication about "The Spoilers" on Mustangs, great to see, some of that i know befor, but mostly new to learn for me...
that one on the "Mel Burns Shelby GT350" is also very interesting, using a Shelby to show it ...

i thank you all for your answers,

at the moment we can only suggest that the GT350,
has anybody a opportunity to contact Robert Vickery ?
i only find an old Articel and did a Face Comparsment,
seems pretty much the same as on the T/A Mustang Pics

For the Cobra we can only suggest it is CSX3018, the 427 Competition from Messersmith,
but i cant find a Pic where it is with the Racing Windshield and the other Details.
the pic below has the Oil Cooler Cover and the Chromed Sidepipe, but seems time period correct

Quote from: gt350cs on February 14, 2024, 10:22:26 PM
Szabo, I have recorded as many "original issue" license plate numbers that I have been able to find. Howard got me started we he share infromation from The Hertz cars that I was researching. From that it has expanded to all years that I can find. By the way the 1966 Black and Gold Hertz pictured in Mustang Monthly was assigned the CA Plate SVR 416. My car received SVR 419 - (corrected Plate Number). Both are recorded in the Registry. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Corretion - "Mustang Monthly" should be "Mustang Does It" book by Ray Miller!

Really cool, i like that nerdy stuff, reminds me of Richstangs MFG License Plate Thread,
when i found something i will send it to you, hope we all can find more interesting stutt

Quote from: camp upshur on February 15, 2024, 12:01:30 AM

That Ray Wolff red notchback #9?
Has anyone covered that car? Maybe I've missed it ??
Not trimmed as a Group ll, but talk about SAI DNA, wow.

i have some more pics from the ebay seller
i tryed to contact TransAmEdgar from the, he is the best source for that stuff

Quote from: J_Speegle on February 16, 2024, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: propayne on February 16, 2024, 01:52:56 PM
That particular kit was designed by Larry Shinoda for Fiberfab if I'm not mistaken.

- Phillip

Correct, moonlighting while working GM at the time I believe. There are a couple of past threads on the subject

For the hole Fiberfab Thing i have not much,
only know 5s304 was converted and show 2013 in a Mustang Magazin with the Front End and the 67 Syled Rear End

Greets from Germany

Quote from: silverton_ford on February 14, 2024, 11:38:25 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 14, 2024, 11:29:11 AM
Are we sure thats a spoiler? Or the Cobras bumper?


This looks to be the same car.   This photo was with the previous photos posted.

Analyzing this photo....I wonder if this is Hi Performance Motors in 1966.  Notice the van has "Hi Performance" on the door and the other GT350's behind the fence.

No this is spoilered  ;D

i had this Pic also and would post is here, you were just faster then me...

But this Pic is very important and has so many details that it would worth a own thread
I have a conversation with George and Kieth about this and HPM2

When Robert Vickery and 6s420 is right, which i totally believe, this hole pic make a lot of sense.
Notice the chromed Magnum Stars instead of a standard set.
also you can see the Trailer hitch a little bit in the shadow of the car

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 14, 2024, 12:37:13 PM
Quote from: silverton_ford on February 14, 2024, 11:38:25 AMAnalyzing this photo....I wonder if this is Hi Performance Motors in 1966.  Notice the van has "Hi Performance" on the door and the other GT350's behind the fence.
If it's HiPerf Motors the it's earlier one on Sepulveda Blvd (street name changed to Pacific Coast Hwy now and office building on location) not the La Brea one. The Red GT350 is in the garage. There is also one of the Stroppe African Rally Comets. Regular license plates would also indicate they are used cars. I wonder if some are Hertz returns. It'd be simple to swap the side stripes to remove the renta car stigma. Could it be Shelby's Auto Center?
It's a SoCal dry lake. If it's El Mirage it's not on a regular SCTA weekend - not enough cars and a seeming lack of organization. Today if you are going to race on the lakes you need to get a BLM permit but back then you just drove out onto the lake and went for it.

Thanks for the Point with the Stroppe African Rally Comets, didnt know this

i also think that one black car isnt a Hertz, because of missing the gold Rallye Stripe, another one
is a Hertz standing behind the fence

Quote from: csxsfm on February 14, 2024, 02:06:43 PM
Agree about El Mirage.  You needed to keep your head on a swivel as there was always fast moving stuff out there.  One time saw Brock out there with an Ultra Lite.

Thanks all for the Thoughts about the EL MIRAGE Dry Lake and not about Bonneville

because we know the HPM2 Pic in El Segundo and see the trailerd Cobra i must also say it make no sense that
is Bonneville
EL MIRAGE is about 100 Miles away from LA, El Segundo
Bonneville is about 700 Miles away from LA, El Segundo

For the Rest of the "El Mirage" thing i have no clue, this is a hole new context for me, but i would like to read
and learn more about that ...

Quote from: kranky on February 14, 2024, 11:23:26 AM
The Cobra should be csx3018 at El Mirage just after it's winter break refresh (body and engine) due to an incident at the 1966 Road America races (not sure if incident happened at the June or September event).  El Mirage as mentioned earlier by another poster due to dust instead of Salt Lake crust.

Thanks for the thought of CSX3018 ... i checked this in the registry but there is no connection to the Hi-Performance Motors Shop,
also no origin colour is named, License Plate is hard to read
i have to check this also.

THANKS TO ALL for the Action,
this is what the forum should have to be...

Greets from Germany

Hello all together,

it seems this thread is right at the point  ;D

Very cool to see this action here ...

Quote from: gt350cs on February 13, 2024, 10:41:01 PM
I believe that the 1966 GT350 might well be 6S420, which is recorded as CA License plate RWD 816. That would be my best guess. Robert Vickery  Leased the car12/2/65 and return to Hi-Performance Motors one month later.

This is a full match for me, i can read the Digits on the GT350 Plate very good, the R is a little bit unclear, it could also be a P, but the rest is clear to read
Very cool, how did you know that so quick.

Everthing known from 6s420 today ?

Quote from: JWH on February 13, 2024, 10:54:37 PM
Great pictures Stephan, thank you for posting. Another question is who is the driver and who are the guys around the cars? The trailer mirror on the passenger door and the whip antennae are really interesting. And the Cobra is running full out. Really cool.

For the Man with the sunglasses and the CS Shirt i have no clue, maybe it is Robert Vickery,

but for the Man which the Helmet i have a match, this man is RAY WOLFF, the Generel Manager from
Hi-Perfromance Motors, 901 N. Sepulveda Blvd, El Segundo (short HPM2)

and this fits also very good in the hole story about the GT350 and the Pic standing on the fence
of HPM2

bilder hochladen kostenlos ohne anmeldung

In this Pic you can see his helmet very good, even the hole Body is similar.

Thank you for your answers...

i tryed to confirm the Timecode from May 1965

I base myself on the number of the Street GT350 in the pictures and compare
it with others that I can narrow down in time

1965 04 23
in the Backround of the Robbins Twins are no GT350 visible,
so the GT350´s didnt stand in the rows

1965 05 ??
the finished parking lot is not full with GT350

1965 05 ??
finished parking lot is filled with GT350,
but not in straight rows

1965 05 20 or closley after
the finished parking lot is full with GT350, standing nicely in rows
from this Date the finished parking lot was always full with rows of cars

Would you agree to the timeline ?
Hello together,

i came up with some Pic from Ebay from a Negative Roll ...

i had contact with the seller, the roll was development in 10/1966, also the Pics are time period correct
and the cars must be factory new...

First Strange Thing is, that the GT350 have a KAMM Styled Spoiler rear deck,
i only know 2 other Mustangs with a time period Spoiler like this,
one was 5s319 mocked up for the Open House Event on LAX and later given to Charlie McHose
the second one is the Mustang of Alex Tremulis Wife

on the Edge of the Pic you see also a red 66 GT350

and of course, there is a 427 Cobra, is it a Competition Model ?
the driver really hit the pedal to the metal

I would love to find out which SFM and CSX Numbers the Cars are

Any ideas, any thoughts are welcome

Greets from Germany


The GT350 License Plate says P?? 816 as fare as i can read it, note the extra long radio antenna

Same Pic from the other side --- note the red GT350 with the Kid

two pic from the Cobra, what a beast - Competition or S/C ?

I tried a little comparsion to proof the Time Code and
look closer to the Pics and details

First look was about the Details and i started with the Pic by the Race Hangar

Yellow Line
shows the the End of the Blast Wall
Note the pure unfinished Cobras are standing in a row
the purple Circle shows some "Construction" Material or wooden ramps, you can see it on both Pics

a Difference is the Number of the Competition GT350, on the Black/White Pic it seems to be less then on the colored Pic.

Second Look was on the front Gate

The Red Line shows the passage thruw the Blast Wall, the blue cirlce shows a Car Hauler
the green Circle shows the 289 Cobras standing - a total new Detail for me, never noticed this on the black/white Pic

Third Pic shows a difference

The Pink line shows on both Pics the Building on the End of Blast Wall
The Blue Circle show a big difference in the number of the finished GT350 ...
the black/white Pic shows 3 Rows with a lot more cars

i made another Comparsion from a other view

Here cou you can see the orange Line shows the Building,
and the Pink Circle shows the same sort of many many material or whatever cubes standing on the end
of the Production Hangar
Again you can see that on the back/white Pic are a lot more finished GT350 are showed
Quote from: silverton_ford on February 01, 2024, 01:17:29 PM
Reviving an old thread.  I came across this photo on ebay and thought it would be valuable here.  The photo is a slide taken in 1965.


thank you very much for posting these Pics and put a little life in these thread

I looked on ebay also and found some more, wonderfull colored, Pics
the seller noted these as MAY 1965 and i believe this,
i hope to can make some compartments for better understanding.

These Pic shows the End of the Blast Wall, the Cobras are all here and some GT350 Competition Models are
waiting, Nr. "36" should be 5R001

the Second Pic show the closed Front Gate with the very nice big round Cobra Logo, note
the 289 Cobras, must be the last one for delievering

the third Pic shows the other End of the Blast Wall, very less 65 GT350 standing.

1965 GT350/R-Model / Re: LA storage lot
December 29, 2023, 03:59:35 PM
Quote from: silverton_ford on December 02, 2023, 09:01:27 PM
Quote from: gt350shelb on December 02, 2023, 07:50:18 PM

I emailed Peter Brock in October 2020 about this photo a when I saw it in the Vintage Road Racing Archive group on Facebook.  Here was his response.

"Hi Brian...Nice to hear from you!  This was taken at the Shelby facility on the Los Angeles airport grounds.  It's of CSX 2287 (the original California built Coupe) being prepped for its only race of the '65 season at Le Mans.  It was easier for the mechanics to work on the interiors with the doors removed. Note the engine isn't installed so they would have had to work on the mounting of the transmission from inside. It didn't make the first races, like the rest of the newer coupes, as it was so tired from the previous season that it needed a complete rebuild.  It is indeed a rare shot....I'd never seen that one.  Best, Peter Brock"

Very very good to read some backround information, now i can find a better time Code for the Pic, thank you very much.
1965 GT350/R-Model / Re: LA storage lot
December 29, 2023, 03:58:34 PM
Quote from: gt350shelb on December 02, 2023, 07:31:01 PM

I often wonder how many of these cars have crossed my path  thru the years

One of my favourite Pics because it is in color ... i never found out on wich date the Pic was made or even better which cars you can see.
Please let me know when any other information is available for this Pic.

Greets from Germany

Hello together,

i was long gone from Shelby Stuff and the Forum, but a few weeks ago i came back and was again
on fire for new Shelby stuff.

I found this nice Mag vom England (United Kingdom) and buyed it blind...
i have it just a few hours and i am happy again to find something i never saw befor
(hopefully it is new for you too)

The combination of a Carryover GT350 + SAI MFG013 License Plate + testing of LAX behind the Blast Wall and the Fence
is a wonderfull and all i hoped to get

The Plate is hard to read, but i rememberd on 6s120 as a Carryover Car and even wearing the MFG013 Plate on the End of 65
on the Cobra Caravan Tour as a support Car.

i made a comparsion and i really suggest and think that the Plate is 2S MFG 013 and the Car is 6s120 on a very early or even
fresh date from about End of September or early October in 1965
Anybody have Production Time from 6s120 from a newer Registry to confirm ?

The Text speaks about some markable Lines such:
"First European Car Journal to test the new 66 Shelby"
"Test drive about 800 Miles, on street and Riverside Raceway"
"Car is a 4 Speed"
"Shelbys come soon about Dealers in the UK"

So, i hope you have fun and can leave some comments

Greets from Germany


Very nice story, cool Pics and thanks for the Link to my thread ...
The best for me is to have a 100percent bullet proof date of the Advertisment,
so it is clear the Pics are made befor these date.

i always have a lot of trouble to belief that the GT350 in Front of Carter Ave is 5003,
but i am not a troublemaker so i keep my opinon mostly for me.

it is telled in every book or brochure that the Car in Front of Carter is 5003 ...

The Point for my belief that it is not 5003  shows this, for me unkown, dark little stripe on the door,
near the handle and wears on both side the Cragars.

The latest Pic from 5003 is made around 20 May 1965 in the LAX Race Hangar still shows the Steelies,

Anyway, what i know is that the Pics from "GT350 befor Carter Ave" Shooting is also used on a
Goodyear Blue Dot Advertisment and on the Ford Motorsport Book.

Greetings from Germany

from these Ford Motorsport Book/Folder ( a Print date would be very helpful)

The Goodyear Advertisment...


i can solve another riddle of a MFG 013 Plate Pic

i found this Pic in a 1989 English Car Magazine and discuss with Rich
if it is a origin one...

About the R Apron with the extra two holes and the license Plate we was never 100% Bulletproofed sure,
because no other Competition GT350 has ever wear such a R-Front and very less had ever a license plate on...

So i saved it on my PC but dont look for more infos...

A few days befor now i found a Pic from 5s029 Shelby School Nr. 2 and BINGO again

The Plate is not clear to see but it is the same car on both Pics and so
we found another new combination and a time correct Pic - I love it

Pic from the 1989 english Car Mag

Pic from 5s029 Shelby School Car #2

Hey Dave,

i hope you will get an answer for the Pic and your seeking on your special car...

I can only say that both Pics 100% are time correct pics and no replika or newer date made.

The black GT350 wears an __ MFG 013 Plate on the Pic and the Cobra is also well known in other Pics,
the GT40 is not known for me...

Please let me know any new result of your search, even when i took more time

Greets from Germany