Armando's Racing Oil Pans

[JohnSlack]

Not to argue or to demean the original Bud Moore team pans, they definitely are historical artifacts worth appreciating, BUT I'd rather actually run a "replica" of one for several reasons.

One, the original is to valuable to destroy or damage. Two, I don't need to clean up and refinish an original.

To me, the concept of the design is what matters and if there is a significant feature missing from the replica, and I actually have one side by side with the original, I could add it.

So whether or not I am running, or someone else is or not running an original, somehow seems a moot point? At least to me...and I WOULD qualify myself as a LONG TIME APPRECIATOR of the original Trans Am parts.

That's just my perspective and I understand that others view points may and likely will vary.


We all know about the "Village Idiot" who needs to interject himself into each and every discussion. I just consider him a "groupie" who follows everyone around, hooting and hollering at every action he sees.
Just be patient. At some point he will smash a pumpkin on his head and fall off of the wall again and I think that is actually intended on his part, however annoying his constant antics are? He just needs new material.
A new audience would be preferable though.

Doug,
Quite simply you can not run the two stage parts with Aviad's Bud Moore pan, they don't fit or function in that pan. I offered to pay Aviad in excess of $2,000.00 to build me a correct oil pan. They would not. To clarify Armando would build me one, however right about that time I was able to buy an original pan and since I am building an original SK motor I chose to go that route, but don't worry about the original pan, I now have patterns so that I can remake any part of the pan if the rods/crank get angry and leave the party. If I blow my pan up the balance of the Bud Moore pans in the world will be worth more as well... maybe it doesn't really seem to matter. But just in case I have a spare..and the patterns.

As well as spare two stage pumps, is there a museum that is wanting to display these? I never found it.

John

[98SVT - was 06GT]

There is also Olson. They modified their dry sump pan to fit the Cleveland in the Speedway Engineering chassis.

https://olsonmotorsports.com/ford-small-block-351302-oilpans/

[JohnSlack]

There is also Olson. They modified their dry sump pan to fit the Cleveland in the Speedway Engineering chassis.

https://olsonmotorsports.com/ford-small-block-351302-oilpans/

That is a really nice looking part

[pbf777]

   

That is a really nice looking part

    Just that, as nice as it looks, and even as popular it is to utilize, too bad it's made of "aluminum";  as I "guarantee" you, it'll crack and leak . . . . . given time and usage! 

    Scott.

[shelbydoug]

Not to argue or to demean the original Bud Moore team pans, they definitely are historical artifacts worth appreciating, BUT I'd rather actually run a "replica" of one for several reasons.

One, the original is to valuable to destroy or damage. Two, I don't need to clean up and refinish an original.

To me, the concept of the design is what matters and if there is a significant feature missing from the replica, and I actually have one side by side with the original, I could add it.

So whether or not I am running, or someone else is or not running an original, somehow seems a moot point? At least to me...and I WOULD qualify myself as a LONG TIME APPRECIATOR of the original Trans Am parts.

That's just my perspective and I understand that others view points may and likely will vary.


We all know about the "Village Idiot" who needs to interject himself into each and every discussion. I just consider him a "groupie" who follows everyone around, hooting and hollering at every action he sees.
Just be patient. At some point he will smash a pumpkin on his head and fall off of the wall again and I think that is actually intended on his part, however annoying his constant antics are? He just needs new material.
A new audience would be preferable though.

Doug,
Quite simply you can not run the two stage parts with Aviad's Bud Moore pan, they don't fit or function in that pan. I offered to pay Aviad in excess of $2,000.00 to build me a correct oil pan. They would not. To clarify Armando would build me one, however right about that time I was able to buy an original pan and since I am building an original SK motor I chose to go that route, but don't worry about the original pan, I now have patterns so that I can remake any part of the pan if the rods/crank get angry and leave the party. If I blow my pan up the balance of the Bud Moore pans in the world will be worth more as well... maybe it doesn't really seem to matter. But just in case I have a spare..and the patterns.

As well as spare two stage pumps, is there a museum that is wanting to display these? I never found it.

John

I was just the kid that everyone chased away because they thought I was a spy.
I had these white leather Pumas and that made no sense to the race teams. So I couldn't get to see most of the details.

Funny. Now those look like orthopedic shoes?

In fact, Moore refused to sell me a 351c ram box intake saying, "you could be the competition!" He wasn't the only team that chased me away.


I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

That midget must have thought I was important or something? LOL.



I think you are just trying to corner the market on Moore pans? I think that's worth the gamble.

[JohnSlack]

Not to argue or to demean the original Bud Moore team pans, they definitely are historical artifacts worth appreciating, BUT I'd rather actually run a "replica" of one for several reasons.

One, the original is to valuable to destroy or damage. Two, I don't need to clean up and refinish an original.

To me, the concept of the design is what matters and if there is a significant feature missing from the replica, and I actually have one side by side with the original, I could add it.

So whether or not I am running, or someone else is or not running an original, somehow seems a moot point? At least to me...and I WOULD qualify myself as a LONG TIME APPRECIATOR of the original Trans Am parts.

That's just my perspective and I understand that others view points may and likely will vary.


We all know about the "Village Idiot" who needs to interject himself into each and every discussion. I just consider him a "groupie" who follows everyone around, hooting and hollering at every action he sees.
Just be patient. At some point he will smash a pumpkin on his head and fall off of the wall again and I think that is actually intended on his part, however annoying his constant antics are? He just needs new material.
A new audience would be preferable though.

Doug,
Quite simply you can not run the two stage parts with Aviad's Bud Moore pan, they don't fit or function in that pan. I offered to pay Aviad in excess of $2,000.00 to build me a correct oil pan. They would not. To clarify Armando would build me one, however right about that time I was able to buy an original pan and since I am building an original SK motor I chose to go that route, but don't worry about the original pan, I now have patterns so that I can remake any part of the pan if the rods/crank get angry and leave the party. If I blow my pan up the balance of the Bud Moore pans in the world will be worth more as well... maybe it doesn't really seem to matter. But just in case I have a spare..and the patterns.

As well as spare two stage pumps, is there a museum that is wanting to display these? I never found it.

John

I was just the kid that everyone chased away because they thought I was a spy.
I had these white leather Pumas and that made no sense to the race teams. So I couldn't get to see most of the details.

Funny. Now those look like orthopedic shoes?

In fact, Moore refused to sell me a 351c ram box intake saying, "you could be the competition!" He wasn't the only team that chased me away.


I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

That midget must have thought I was important or something? LOL.



I think you are just trying to corner the market on Moore pans? I think that's worth the gamble.

I only have two of them, in addition to the patterns to repair what I have. I was lucky enough to be support on multiple race teams. Two of them expanded my mind when the first one told me, "You need to develop this part in a vacuum, nobody can know what you are doing or why you are doing what you are doing. Years from now when someone asks you what you did, you deny everything and only share what I have given you permission to share."

During the interview for the 2nd team I was told, "I don't know what you have done or how you did it, I only know that before you were involved their success was less, with you it was more. So let's write your contract." I left the meeting at that point and my wife took over. 45 minutes later I had a contract.

Nobody hid anything from me. However I fixed my own stuff.


John

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Just that, as nice as it looks, and even as popular it is to utilize, too bad it's made of "aluminum";  as I "guarantee" you, it'll crack and leak . . . . . given time and usage! 

Mine is a steel one. They started with a stock pan and powder coated it silver. Most of their customers today are drag racers so they are looking to save weight. Yes it's also got a little flywheel and 7.5" triple clutch.

I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

It wasn't even a Gulf. When Ford walked away from the original GT40s the design was given (or sold cheap) to John Wyer Automotive Engineering (probably the little weasly Englishman that threatened you). He modified it and called it the Mirage. It was successful and was one of 2 priveteers to win LeMans outright. He had Gulf oil sponsorship and when they were no longer winning he switched to buying Porsches using his Gulf money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_(race_car)
The only other private winner of LeMans was Rondeau. This car was one they ran in IMSA. It sat in my garage for awhile. A friend had bought it from McKittrick. This car also had one of the Chevy high nickel race blocks. It was unpainted and not rusty with that yellowish glow of nickel. It was much heavier than a normal Chevy block. We had everything but the windshield - that was $700 and shipping was $1,300 (the car had only been 5 grand) so it got sold on to Phil Schmidt who owned the wheel company PS Engineering. I don't know where it is today. A few months ago I came across a box of spares for the Kinsler injection - so if anyone know where it is let me know.  https://www.race-cars.com/Advert/Details/129781/1982-rondeau-m382-02-golden-eagle-racing-imsa

[gt350shelb]

in 1999 the 2 bud moore pans we duplicated were over $5000  it was a massive  amount of work  and the pans were ever evolving  it was an attempt to create a wet sump that acted like a dry sump to get around the rules .

[shelbydoug]

Just that, as nice as it looks, and even as popular it is to utilize, too bad it's made of "aluminum";  as I "guarantee" you, it'll crack and leak . . . . . given time and usage! 

Mine is a steel one. They started with a stock pan and powder coated it silver. Most of their customers today are drag racers so they are looking to save weight. Yes it's also got a little flywheel and 7.5" triple clutch.

I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

It wasn't even a Gulf. When Ford walked away from the original GT40s the design was given (or sold cheap) to John Wyer Automotive Engineering (probably the little weasly Englishman that threatened you). He modified it and called it the Mirage. It was successful and was one of 2 priveteers to win LeMans outright. He had Gulf oil sponsorship and when they were no longer winning he switched to buying Porsches using his Gulf money.

I don't speak his name. I just carry insect repellent and a fly swatter in case he comes back.
He at most would have hit me in the knee with the wrench.
What a repulsive individual.

I didn't know that Bud Moore pans were only dry sump.

[JohnSlack]

Just that, as nice as it looks, and even as popular it is to utilize, too bad it's made of "aluminum";  as I "guarantee" you, it'll crack and leak . . . . . given time and usage! 

Mine is a steel one. They started with a stock pan and powder coated it silver. Most of their customers today are drag racers so they are looking to save weight. Yes it's also got a little flywheel and 7.5" triple clutch.

I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

It wasn't even a Gulf. When Ford walked away from the original GT40s the design was given (or sold cheap) to John Wyer Automotive Engineering (probably the little weasly Englishman that threatened you). He modified it and called it the Mirage. It was successful and was one of 2 priveteers to win LeMans outright. He had Gulf oil sponsorship and when they were no longer winning he switched to buying Porsches using his Gulf money.

I don't speak his name. I just carry insect repellent and a fly swatter in case he comes back.
He at most would have hit me in the knee with the wrench.
What a repulsive individual.

I didn't know that Bud Moore pans were only dry sump.

Bud Moore pans were not dry sump.
They are wet sump pans that have a lower scavenge section on the bottom of the oil pump that scavenges the oil out of the rear of the pan and pumps that oil to the front of the oil pan that is then discharged through a racetrack looking de-aerator that places the scavenged oil down into the main section of the oil pan. Where the standard volume oil pump supplies the oil to the engine.

Technically no dry sump.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Technically no dry sump.

The 1970 rules were fairly descriptive one the oil system. It relaxed some in 1971 and by 1972 they allowed dry sump systems.

[JohnSlack]

Technically no dry sump.

The 1970 rules were fairly descriptive one the oil system. It relaxed some in 1971 and by 1972 they allowed dry sump systems.

As stated under 18.
Stock pump location and stock pump drive system.

[FL SAAC]

Interesting that none of the participants in this mesmerizing topic have not mentioned the Dailey oil pans or their oil in oil out systems

[shelbydoug]

Just that, as nice as it looks, and even as popular it is to utilize, too bad it's made of "aluminum";  as I "guarantee" you, it'll crack and leak . . . . . given time and usage! 

Mine is a steel one. They started with a stock pan and powder coated it silver. Most of their customers today are drag racers so they are looking to save weight. Yes it's also got a little flywheel and 7.5" triple clutch.

I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

It wasn't even a Gulf. When Ford walked away from the original GT40s the design was given (or sold cheap) to John Wyer Automotive Engineering (probably the little weasly Englishman that threatened you). He modified it and called it the Mirage. It was successful and was one of 2 priveteers to win LeMans outright. He had Gulf oil sponsorship and when they were no longer winning he switched to buying Porsches using his Gulf money.

I don't speak his name. I just carry insect repellent and a fly swatter in case he comes back.
He at most would have hit me in the knee with the wrench.
What a repulsive individual.

I didn't know that Bud Moore pans were only dry sump.

Bud Moore pans were not dry sump.
They are wet sump pans that have a lower scavenge section on the bottom of the oil pump that scavenges the oil out of the rear of the pan and pumps that oil to the front of the oil pan that is then discharged through a racetrack looking de-aerator that places the scavenged oil down into the main section of the oil pan. Where the standard volume oil pump supplies the oil to the engine.

Technically no dry sump.

Just that, as nice as it looks, and even as popular it is to utilize, too bad it's made of "aluminum";  as I "guarantee" you, it'll crack and leak . . . . . given time and usage! 

Mine is a steel one. They started with a stock pan and powder coated it silver. Most of their customers today are drag racers so they are looking to save weight. Yes it's also got a little flywheel and 7.5" triple clutch.

I was standing next to a "Gulf", aka GT40, and I made the mistake of calling it a GT40 within earshot of this little weasly Englishman. He promptly came at me with an open end wrench in his had and threateningly said "it's a EFFIN GULF and if you say that again, I"LL SUE YOU!"

It wasn't even a Gulf. When Ford walked away from the original GT40s the design was given (or sold cheap) to John Wyer Automotive Engineering (probably the little weasly Englishman that threatened you). He modified it and called it the Mirage. It was successful and was one of 2 priveteers to win LeMans outright. He had Gulf oil sponsorship and when they were no longer winning he switched to buying Porsches using his Gulf money.

I don't speak his name. I just carry insect repellent and a fly swatter in case he comes back.
He at most would have hit me in the knee with the wrench.
What a repulsive individual.

I didn't know that Bud Moore pans were only dry sump.

Bud Moore pans were not dry sump.
They are wet sump pans that have a lower scavenge section on the bottom of the oil pump that scavenges the oil out of the rear of the pan and pumps that oil to the front of the oil pan that is then discharged through a racetrack looking de-aerator that places the scavenged oil down into the main section of the oil pan. Where the standard volume oil pump supplies the oil to the engine.

Technically no dry sump.

Which of the available "historical systems" do you intend to run with now?

I understand the historical significance of the "Moore hybrid system" but is that your preferred design to run with now?


It would seem that if you intend to run as hard as possible, then the best system is going to be the dry sump and those of us attempting to adopt the best available technology of that era for a "street car" are looking at big pan wet sumps?

So we are just looking for the pan shape that fits our own applications the best?

Having run high speed events, just adding oil volume has been successful in the 99% vicinity for most and 100% for me.


John I think that "your place" is the era's "Ford T/A Museum". Some of those parts could be displayed right next to "Viking Battle Axes and Long Boats"?



Looking at the current results of about three year old "aluminum radiators", cracking of the welds there is a common occurrence. Then they are irreparable junk.

As pretty as the radiators are, I can understand the attraction to the welded up aluminum oil pans but considering the short lived life expectancy, I'd have to agree with Scott on that subject, i.e., probably something to be avoided for a dependable long run solution?

[csxsfm]

As much as I was disappointed to have to fix the factory supplied leaks of my Aviaid pans, I have to give them their due. Both are in service today. One has even been repaired from the damage of at least two "sudden engine dissassemblies" in SCCA events "back in the day."  Pain in the a.. then. Patina today.