1967 GT500 which engine would you put in and why?

[shelbydoug]

Considering the fact that there is a limit to how much power you can actually put on the ground in a "Mustang chassis", astronomical numbers seem to be somewhat of a lip service to me?

IF we are talking around stock CI displacements, then a reworked 428 PI is not so much out of the question.

Essentially the basis for a 427 top end is already there. Certainly there is virtually no difference in torque output.

The criticism of the PI is in the under camming of it and the inherent weakness of the stock connecting rods.


I'm getting 500hp out of my 347. If you can't get that out of a 428 then you must be hanging out with the daily riders of the short bus?

Put some good valves, springs and cam in the top end. Put a set of Hooker headers in it and leave it dressed as a '67 GT500 should be.

It is quite a handful to deal with at that.


If you want to play virtual HP games and why would you? You can play that with Fantasy Football amongst other things.

Put the money into the internal performance parts that you don't see. The thing is plenty fast and lethal that way. Let the guys with the aluminum everything and the titanium gonads show their cars at the local shows and impress the crap out of the kiddies while you drive your 500.

[427hunter]

Considering the fact that there is a limit to how much power you can actually put on the ground in a "Mustang chassis", astronomical numbers seem to be somewhat of a lip service to me?

IF we are talking around stock CI displacements, then a reworked 428 PI is not so much out of the question.

Essentially the basis for a 427 top end is already there. Certainly there is virtually no difference in torque output.

The criticism of the PI is in the under camming of it and the inherent weakness of the stock connecting rods.


I'm getting 500hp out of my 347. If you can't get that out of a 428 then you must be hanging out with the daily riders of the short bus?

Put some good valves, springs and cam in the top end. Put a set of Hooker headers in it and leave it dressed as a '67 GT500 should be.

It is quite a handful to deal with at that.


If you want to play virtual HP games and why would you? You can play that with Fantasy Football amongst other things.

Put the money into the internal performance parts that you don't see. The thing is plenty fast and lethal that way. Let the guys with the aluminum everything and the titanium gonads show their cars at the local shows and impress the crap out of the kiddies while you drive your 500.

500 horse out of a 347 - what heads, cam, compression, intake and exhaust are you running?

[crossboss]

IF it was mine, I would keep it an FE of course. So, in would go a nice stroker 428. Alum heads, CJ exhausts, Tunnel Wedge intake , hyd roller cam, etc.

[shelbydoug]

Considering the fact that there is a limit to how much power you can actually put on the ground in a "Mustang chassis", astronomical numbers seem to be somewhat of a lip service to me?

IF we are talking around stock CI displacements, then a reworked 428 PI is not so much out of the question.

Essentially the basis for a 427 top end is already there. Certainly there is virtually no difference in torque output.

The criticism of the PI is in the under camming of it and the inherent weakness of the stock connecting rods.


I'm getting 500hp out of my 347. If you can't get that out of a 428 then you must be hanging out with the daily riders of the short bus?

Put some good valves, springs and cam in the top end. Put a set of Hooker headers in it and leave it dressed as a '67 GT500 should be.

It is quite a handful to deal with at that.


If you want to play virtual HP games and why would you? You can play that with Fantasy Football amongst other things.

Put the money into the internal performance parts that you don't see. The thing is plenty fast and lethal that way. Let the guys with the aluminum everything and the titanium gonads show their cars at the local shows and impress the crap out of the kiddies while you drive your 500.

500 horse out of a 347 - what heads, cam, compression, intake and exhaust are you running?

Ah! How much you wanna' pay?

[427hunter]

Considering the fact that there is a limit to how much power you can actually put on the ground in a "Mustang chassis", astronomical numbers seem to be somewhat of a lip service to me?

IF we are talking around stock CI displacements, then a reworked 428 PI is not so much out of the question.

Essentially the basis for a 427 top end is already there. Certainly there is virtually no difference in torque output.

The criticism of the PI is in the under camming of it and the inherent weakness of the stock connecting rods.


I'm getting 500hp out of my 347. If you can't get that out of a 428 then you must be hanging out with the daily riders of the short bus?

Put some good valves, springs and cam in the top end. Put a set of Hooker headers in it and leave it dressed as a '67 GT500 should be.

It is quite a handful to deal with at that.


If you want to play virtual HP games and why would you? You can play that with Fantasy Football amongst other things.

Put the money into the internal performance parts that you don't see. The thing is plenty fast and lethal that way. Let the guys with the aluminum everything and the titanium gonads show their cars at the local shows and impress the crap out of the kiddies while you drive your 500.

500 horse out of a 347 - what heads, cam, compression, intake and exhaust are you running?

Ah! How much you wanna' pay?

You still haven't answered the question.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

500 horse out of a 347 - what heads, cam, compression, intake and exhaust are you running?

Big HP in todays engines is almost too easy. https://www.shelbyengines.com/collections/shelby-289-engines/products/aluminum-289-364ci-stage-i-500hp
Paint it blue and no one will know.

My 310" Cleveland cranks out 650 @ 7,800 it was built in 85 with all the best parts and is alive and well today..
Carrillo rods
SVO A3 aluminum heads
Roller rockers – Crower stainless
Moroso Stud Girdle
Steel billet crank
Olson dry sump pan
Titanium valve keepers
Pistons – Venolia
Motorsport 351 pillow NASCAR block
Steel billet crank

[427hunter]

500 horse out of a 347 - what heads, cam, compression, intake and exhaust are you running?

Big HP in todays engines is almost too easy. https://www.shelbyengines.com/collections/shelby-289-engines/products/aluminum-289-364ci-stage-i-500hp
Paint it blue and no one will know.

My 310" Cleveland cranks out 650 @ 7,800 it was built in 85 with all the best parts and is alive and well today..
Carrillo rods
SVO A3 aluminum heads
Roller rockers – Crower stainless
Moroso Stud Girdle
Steel billet crank
Olson dry sump pan
Titanium valve keepers
Pistons – Venolia
Motorsport 351 pillow NASCAR block
Steel billet crank

Bench racing lives on  - Everyone is cruising around at 7,800 rpm in their 1000 hp mustang - on radial tires and doing 10 second passes...

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Bench racing lives on  - Everyone is cruising around at 7,800 rpm in their 1000 hp mustang - on radial tires and doing 10 second passes...

Sorry should have included a picture

[crossboss]

Bench racing lives on  - Everyone is cruising around at 7,800 rpm in their 1000 hp mustang - on radial tires and doing 10 second passes...

Sorry should have included a picture

I believe that 427hunter was referring to the claim that a 347 made 500 HP...not a 'race car'.

[427hunter]

Bench racing lives on  - Everyone is cruising around at 7,800 rpm in their 1000 hp mustang - on radial tires and doing 10 second passes...

Sorry should have included a picture

I believe that 427hunter was referring to the claim that a 347 made 500 HP...not a 'race car'.

Scott, why do I feel like we went back in time and are standing in the Super Shops parking lot.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Scott, why do I feel like we went back in time and are standing in the Super Stupid Shops parking lot.

Fixed it for ya

[427hunter]

Scott, why do I feel like we went back in time and are standing in the Super Stupid Shops parking lot.

Fixed it for ya

Exactly! Same Stuff I used to hear back then.

[Kent]

Ok maybe I take the 428 PI again, I think its maybe the best decision as I never would race it so hard as I could. Yes its unbelievable how much hp you can get out of these mustang engines. My black shelby clone with the 408 and Paxton did the 0-100 in 3.2 seconds on toyo´s and 100-200 in 6.6 sec. my 68 drag fastback is much faster with just a 438 sb that thing is awesome.

I go with the 428 as I think its the best option to have it reliable and not overpowered and maybe I built another clone with a Sideoiler who knows what will happen in the next years.

so here the question who has a 428PI engine for me with heads.

this is the drag car, and this is on no prep with really a soft start

https://youtu.be/8z9QP4jEUjE

[427heaven]

Thats the bumpiest roller coaster Drag strip I have ever seen... :' ( State side would not allow that at any sanctioned track. Looks like a good runner-

[shelbydoug]

The largest restriction you will have with building an FE is the timing on the camshafts.

In today's world you will find that on most US built v-8s, aftermarket camshafts will be with a 110 centerline and a built in 4 advance.

In order to use the capability of that timing, the exhaust system needs to be relatively nonrestrictive.



In ALL of the FORD FE heads, the exhaust ports on the heads ARE THE SAME.
They are restrictive. Many, but not all FE builders will recommend a cam profile with a centerline of around 113 degrees as a result.



Now the FE isn't the only Ford head to have an issue. The Cleveland exhaust ports as cast are pretty bad.

Back in the day, in Pro Stock racing, that problem was solved by radically modifying the iron heads exhaust ports by milling out a section large enough to insert a piece of aluminum bar stock that in effect extended the exhaust ports straight up.

At that point, all of a sudden 357's were making 800hp on the strip.

Exactly who's idea that was first doesn't really matter but Dyno Don Nicholson was the first one to be seen with it as I recall?


In my view, the bad FE exhaust port design is THE limiting factor in making big HP out of the engine.

Now there are a few aftermarket aluminum FE heads that I have seen that have improved the exhausts, but not to the extent that the Pro Stock Cleveland modification did.


Taking a somewhat educated guess as to what the bad FE ports do... you're missing out on something like 100 to 150hp sticking with them BUT there is no practical solution if you are running a Ford head, even a 'Cammer,  has the same restriction in casting design.



I'm running the CompCams solid lifter with .587 lift and 110 centers with very early Hooker Headers. That's about as unrestrictive as you can make the engine without attempting to re-invent the wheel?

I'm also running BC-BD Holley's which it seems to like and even SEEMS to idle smoother with.


You can just fishtail anywhere and anytime that you want with this setup and you can absolutely act like a derelict Dodge Boy doughnut hole if you want to compete with stupidity on the street with them?



As far as, "is a 427 Ford block worth it?" My engine builder will no longer touch an original Ford 427 block. He out and out calls them crap. In explation to me, "they are just thin crappy castings".

HE says the 428 blocks are better and thicker castings, pointing out that FE blocks "evolve" step by step into better "beings" then the 427 blocks do. He reminds me that the purpose of the 427's was to be able to survive 7,000 rpm races for 500 miles. Period. End of story.

In his view they are more reputation then fact. Kind of like the "Headless Horseman" at Halloween time?


I stayed with a period correct 428 for the car, standard bore A scratch, stock crank with Eagle h-beam rods. Stock heads with CJ valves.

I can't go any faster anyway. My hands keep slipping off of that silly wood steering wheel while I'm holding on for life. Speed you see is all relative...and NONE of my relatives are allowed to drive the car.