Antifreeze in oil, HELP

[Corey Bowcutt]

Bob,

I have taken your advise I am not running my engine anymore.  I have not ran it since last Sunday's troubleshooting.  I was going to go out and get the combustion leak tester this morning but then when I thought about it more I decided I was just proving what I already know by the coolant system leak testing and continued antifreeze in my oil without the engine running. So decided against the combustion tester.

With no smell of antifreeze in the exhaust I feel it is less likely a head gasket and the leading theory is a cracked block.  Now have to decide how to proceed.  Question I am asking myself, do I try and tackle this myself (have never done it before) or find someone I trust to do it?

Corey

[Corey Bowcutt]

1. Did you drain the anti-freeze by opening the drain cock at the bottom of the radiator or did you remove the plugs in the block? If you only drained the radiator then yes, around 1/2 the coolant capacity is still in the block.

2. If it is a head gasket, it could be very obvious or you may need to look closer. The key here is identify all the oil and anti-freeze holes and look closely for signs of anti-freeze traveling into an oil hole. Speaking from experience, I had the top ring sealing a cylinder fail which pressurized the cooling system which then pushed antifreeze into the oil. This happened a long time ago and I forget if the oil/antifreeze seals were directly compromised by the cylinder ring that but they probably were.

3. One oddball thing to consider because you said this started when you replaced intake bolts, I remember years ago being told that either Felpro or Ford Motorsport recommended increasing head bolt torque by 10 ft/lbs because they had found that when torquing down the intake, it could pull up the head just enough to cause a head gasket leak when combined with all the normal valve train activity. Fatigued head bolts could come into play also so when you do pull the heads and if you discover it's a gasket, it's a good idea to get new bolts and chase the threads to ensure you are getting a correct torque number when you put things back together. One other thing while the heads are off is to check for flatness.

I did just drain the antifreeze by the radiator petcock. I did not drain the block itself.

I can not say that this problem started right after I replaced the intake bolts.  I noticed the issue when replacing the fuel pump and the only thing I had done to the engine was replace the carb and intake bolts so I assumed that is what caused it.  It could just be a huge coincidence?  Or maybe as you suggest it pulled up on the heads slightly allowing for a leak in the head gasket?

[Royce Peterson]

The only way to figure out what is happening would be to take the engine apart and have the block and heads pressure tested individually. I would start by removing the heads and having them pressure tested first. Maybe you will get lucky and not have to remove the engine from the car.

[Greg]

Since you have a lot of time and frustration in this engine so far.  I recommend pulling it and tearing it down as there is a problem that you cannot isolate and it is even harder in the car.  Pull it out, pull the heads find an engine builder.

This way you stop chasing the problem and start over.  Hopefully the block isn't cracked but at least you will know.  To continue changing intake gaskets is a waste of time and money IMO.

[Corey Bowcutt]

Greg,

I completely agree and that is now my plan.  I just have to find a good engine builder I can trust.  I have a few feelers out and am awaiting responses.

Corey

[gt350shelb]

I will come look at it this week after work

[Corey Bowcutt]

I will come look at it this week after work

Wow Phil that would be incredible.

Corey

[shelbydoug]

I just looked at a new head gasket and the bottom of a 4v head that I have.

The proximity of the oil drain back hole and the top water port from the block is within a 1/4" in the back of the engine, right where you have been having this issue.



It is entirely possible that the head gasket has deteriorated in that spot and it is weeping anti-freeze into the oil drain back hole which goes directly to the oil pan.

So I offer this to you as a ray of hope, that there is no crack in the block bore.

I can't comment on the percentage of likeliness of this as the source of your issue but have experienced myself head gaskets "rotting"and causing issues similar to this.



You can still pull out the engine if you like but after what I just saw, I'd pull the drivers side head off of the engine first. It could save you a lot of needless work and time, not to mention saving some money.



Someone needs to point me to the software where I can add arrows and text to pictures like this to aid in the identification of specific details in the picture? Anyone?

JD? You there? Got anything for this?

[JD]

Not sure if this helps...
B= Bolt, W= water/coolant, O= Oil
Yellow oval is area that maybe leaking.

(Doug, if you have a Non-Mac computer then look for a program called "Paint" it is a very basic image viewing/modification program that is supplied on most computers, but you may need to look for it, they'd rather sell you one than point out the one you have already)

Phil will be a great help when he can be in the same place.

[shelbydoug]

PERFECT! Exactly illustrates the potential issue. Thank you.

I do have paint. I guess I just don't know how to use it?

[Rukiddin]

I am somewhat hesitant to offer another source of coolant leaking internally......I have seen a few (and currently own) small block coolant leak at the timing cover. Coolant can either leak externally or internally from that point. Just wanted to offer another potential leak. If you end up taking engine out/apart check that closely.
I parked a '84 1/2 5.0  years ago because I was too lazy to repair it correctly. Keep up the hard work.....you will find the source......

[csxsfm]

I just went through something similar with a Dodge engine.  Recurring water in the oil.  Pressure tests, smoke tests identified nothing.  Turned out to be a bad water pump. 

[1109RWHP]

Any updates on this?

[Corey Bowcutt]

Not yet.  I will post as soon as I hear anything.
Corey

[Corey Bowcutt]

I just received an update on my motor today.  The good news is also the bad news.  There were no cracks in the block, heads, intake or timing cover so the problem was not a crack.  Unfortunately the gaskets get so damaged during disassembly it is impossible to determine where the leak actually was.  So I will never know for sure what was causing the leak.

I was informed that the main and rod bearings were very worn on one side as if the crank was not true so rebuilding is definitely a good thing.  I really want to be able to drive this car a thousand or so mile a year for the rest of my life and after this rebuild I feel like I will be good to go.

Corey