Mag Stars or 10 Spokes

[67 GT350]

How do you know, what wheel your car came with, on a 67? Optional wheel? But then which optional wheel? It seems that the registry is just what an owner says?

[67 GT350]

Hmmm, OK I will look closer on it...I thought so, but don't remember seeing it.

[greekz]

Contact Dave Mathews, the 1967 Registrar.  He has copies of factory paperwork, including invoices. 

Greek

[shelbydoug]

It depends on the DSO of the car. There are documents that identify the installed equipment on specific DSO groups.

I know that Dave has some of those documents. I don't know about him having them all?

I do know that on my car the documents show that within the same DSO group, the earliest have the Magstars and the later the 10 spokes and all are invoiced with "Deluxe Wheels". Mine was invoiced with 10 spokes and was sold new by Gotham Ford.

Considering the wheeler/dealer nature of Bill Kolb, the "high-performance" salesman there, it's entirely possible the car was tailored to the first buyer and sold without them. So all that I can document is that it was invoiced new with 10 spokes, and as Dave said, "it left SA with 10 spokes".

[Bob Gaines]

It depends on the DSO of the car. There are documents that identify the installed equipment on specific DSO groups.

I know that Dave has some of those documents. I don't know about him having them all?

I do know that on my car the documents show that within the same DSO group, the earliest have the Magstars and the later the 10 spokes and all are invoiced with "Deluxe Wheels". Mine was invoiced with 10 spokes and was sold new by Gotham Ford.

Considering the wheeler/dealer nature of Bill Kolb, the "high-performance" salesman there, it's entirely possible the car was tailored to the first buyer and sold without them. So all that I can document is that it was invoiced new with 10 spokes.

Doug, brings up a good point,the wheels that the car were invoiced with were not necessarily the wheels the car was sold with from the dealer. This was a issue in 67 given the dealer had 3 different factory choices. I don't know how many times I have heard stories from original owners about making the deal if they would switch the wheels from other Shelby's the dealer had in stock . Some showed me original documentation and some didn't. This includes stories of cars invoiced with deluxe wheels that the owner negotiated a lower price with the dealer who switch to hubcap wheels from another car in stock. Unfortunately not everyone can come up with historical documentation.Not every dealer had a wide choice of Shelby's to switch wheels with. I think that is a huge factor if a 67 Shelby actually had the wheels switched. In the spirit of historical correctness given the evidence of wheel choice the cars were delivered with from the dealer, the 67 Shelby wheel choices are given latitude in concours.       

[Richstang]

How do you know, what wheel your car came with, on a 67? Optional wheel? But then which optional wheel? It seems that the registry is just what an owner says?

If you want to know how the car was shipped out of Shelby American the PO (Production Order) is the best place to look.

I've studied this subject in great detail. The DSO only reports how cars were built at San Jose, NOT how they left Shelby American. Initially cars were only built with Magstars. That eventually changed and cars were built with steel rims and sent to SAI. Once SAI received an order from a dealer wheels were changed (or not) depending on the order. In many cases wheels were upgraded.

Looking at an Invoice is not always going to tell you accurately which wheel it shipped out with since there are two kinds of invoices. A 'Vehicle Invoice' is from a franchised Shelby dealer and typically very accurate. However, a "Continuation Invoice' is from a non-franchised dealer. Continuation Invoices do not correctly list the specific upgraded wheels. They were a standard form that listed all the options. If an option was added a simple "1" was input on the left side of the option on the form. The term 'Deluxe Wheel' was used for both Magstar and 10-spoke wheels on that form (both were the same charge at $151.74. This is why we should not refer to an invoice for factory wheel selections.

The wheel info in the 2011 registry typically follows what is written in the PO and is generally very accurate. There are a dozen or so cars that the '67 Registrar does not have the PO for. In those few cases the info may have been taken from an invoice (if it existed), or supplied by the owner, or left blank in the registry.

Again, your best choice to determine which wheel was added by SAI and shipped out to the dealer, is to contact the '67 registrar and request the PO. The Invoice is just as important, just for other info.

Rich

[Bob Gaines]

How do you know, what wheel your car came with, on a 67? Optional wheel? But then which optional wheel? It seems that the registry is just what an owner says?

If you want to know how the car was shipped out of Shelby American the PO (Production Order) is the best place to look.

I've studied this subject in great detail. The DSO only reports how cars were built at San Jose, NOT how they left Shelby American. Initially cars were only built with Magstars. That eventually changed and cars were built with steel rims and sent to SAI. Once SAI received an order from a dealer wheels were changed (or not) depending on the order. In many cases wheels were upgraded.

Looking at an Invoice is not always going to tell you accurately which wheel it shipped out with since there are two kinds of invoices. A 'Vehicle Invoice' is from a franchised Shelby dealer and typically very accurate. However, a "Continuation Invoice' is from a non-franchised dealer. Continuation Invoices do not correctly list the specific upgraded wheels. They were a standard form that listed all the options. If an option was added a simple "1" was input on the left side of the option on the form. The term 'Deluxe Wheel' was used for both Magstar and 10-spoke wheels on that form (both were the same charge at $151.74. This is why we should not refer to an invoice for factory wheel selections.

The wheel info in the 2011 registry typically follows what is written in the PO and is generally very accurate. There are a dozen or so cars that the '67 Registrar does not have the PO for. In those few cases the info may have been taken from an invoice (if it existed), or supplied by the owner, or left blank in the registry.

Again, your best choice to determine which wheel was added by SAI and shipped out to the dealer, is to contact the '67 registrar and request the PO. The Invoice is just as important, just for other info.

Rich

Great information. I wanted to add that a large amount of 67 Shelby's were built on speculation and made available in storage lots strategically located . That way cars could be more quickly located for a given dealer rather then the long lead time that a ordered car would take. This explains the many complaints by original owners of ordered cars coming in different colors ,options and engines. Most took the cars that came in rather then wait for another car to come in.  Also another reason why a wheel may be switched when it came in different.

[Shelby_r_b]

GREAT information - thanks to all!  I had no idea.

[mlplunkett]

I've seen photos of the 10-spoke wheels that had a gold tone to the cast surfaces of the center section and was wondering if that was original or someone's custom modification.

[Bob Gaines]

I've seen photos of the 10-spoke wheels that had a gold tone to the cast surfaces of the center section and was wondering if that was original or someone's custom modification.

The tenspokes were bare machined aluminum then clear coated from the factory when new. Sometimes the clear coat will yellow. It also has a bad habit of flaking off. I have seen some with the gold tint also . The ones I saw with the gold tint looked like a PO had done it.

[1690]

My car is a 10-spoke car, per the Registrar/Invoice, but it was bought new with wheel covers.  I could only imagine what happened on the lot/showroom floor..."I like the red car, but I like the wheels on that blue one over there better.  If you want to make the deal, I'll take those wheels".

[shelbydoug]

My car is a 10-spoke car, per the Registrar/Invoice, but it was bought new with wheel covers.  I could only imagine what happened on the lot/showroom floor..."I like the red car, but I like the wheels on that blue one over there better.  If you want to make the deal, I'll take those wheels".

That probably was very common at larger dealerships with cars to swap from.

10 spokes in particular were not popular until maybe the mid to late '70s. They just didn't have that factory hot rod look like the Torque Thrust's or Craigar's did? Magstars seemed to be more popular since they were easier to keep clean.

The clear coat on the 10 spokes all would eventually turn a piss yellow and there was little desire to deal with that other then taking some wheel cleaner spray cans and hosing it off. MOST people were not going to disassemble the tires from the wheels, strip them down. polish and reassemble.

Popularity of 10 spokes is a recent phenom.

Also in my experience, the color of the casting varies and sometimes is a challenge to get four wheels to look like they are a matching set.

[67 GT350]

My car came with the "Deluxe Wheels" so can I put either wheel on it and it is considered, "Right"? I have mag stars on it now but I personally like the 10-spokes, I have a set of original 10-spokes that I would like to get restored, but it seems like this if getting harder and harder to get people who know how to do them right. As far as my car goes, Deluxe Wheels do not mean anything then other than two different wheel choices..

[Richstang]

My car came with the "Deluxe Wheels" so can I put either wheel on it and it is considered, "Right"? I have mag stars on it now but I personally like the 10-spokes, I have a set of original 10-spokes that I would like to get restored, but it seems like this if getting harder and harder to get people who know how to do them right. As far as my car goes, Deluxe Wheels do not mean anything then other than two different wheel choices..

If having 10-spokes on your car is going to make you happier than go ahead and switch them. It's not like you can't switch them back.

As for what it left the Shelby American with, the Production Order (PO) is the best internal document to tell you what it had. There were three boxes in it.
'Standard' = Steel wheels with hubcaps
'Shelby' = 10-spokes
'Deluxe' = Magstars

If the '67 registrar doesn't have the PO available for your car then if the 'Invoice' is available that is the next place to look.
If you have a 'Vehicle Invoice" and it lists 'Deluxe Wheels' your car left SAI with Magstars.
If you have a 'Continuation Invoice' and it has a charge next to 'Deluxe Wheels' it only means your car was upgraded from the standard steel wheels. It does not indicate which of the two wheel options it had.

[BGlover67]

It's your car, if you like the look of 10 spokes, put them on.  In the end, that's what really matters, you being happy.