SFM5s444 restoration is continuing

[Brant]

Funny you should ask, as my afternoon crawling around the interior of # 444 has determined that neither hole has been used in the past. In fact, there's a second sheet metal edge behind and below the welded on plates, and my attempt to pre-mount the hooks found that the driver side trim screw created new threads in order to mount the hook, and the passenger side hole was 3/4 blocked by the sheet metal edge behind the coat hook bracket and required drilling of the second layer to get the hook screw installed.  See photo of the screw and my masking tape with measurements to find the hole once the headliner is installed.  I'm wondering if the transition from No coat hooks to Yes coat hooks in mid May 1965 created some variances of where the line worker put the hooks ? Could it be that # 444 being built in Mid May got the hooks above the vents ?  Mark

Mark,

If those holes never had a screw, I personally would not install them.

I can dig into my pictures a bit more, and let you know which cars I have seen with and without coat hooks around this build period.

I know that I have done some research on this, but I have to re-visit it.

[J_Speegle]

.......... I'm wondering if the transition from No coat hooks to Yes coat hooks in mid May 1965 created some variances of where the line worker put the hooks ? Could it be that # 444 being built in Mid May got the hooks above the vents ?  Mark

Interesting that your car fits in that possible window of May since that was our "grey" period in our earlier survey. Of course grey areas between changes is the nor since we don't have exact records of when these cars were built like we do for later years. Would not be unusual IMO to possibly have a few cars built where on one shift someone in a later station did not remember a change had taken place (guy that was suppose to install the hooks) and one at an earlier station installing the extra brackets. Of course this would be hard to prove unless this took place over a whole shift or the majority of it. Of course non-Shelbys help out a lot here since they are many more of them to use as examples of the periods production practices.

Think at this point your findings at this point does support that your specific car didn't get coat hooks. Good thing you checked this detail before installing the headliner. Since we did that last survey 5 years ago I don't recall seeing any reports or pictures of another 65 San Jose built fastback with the coat hooks where your car had them when you got it. There may be some additional examples of no or with coat hooks I could add to the collection

I would not use any at this point, to try and support the idea of the hooks being installed over the rear vents without finding more unrestored examples of Mustangs with that at this point. Nice thing is that you can leave those off and if you find supporting evidence of that being the practice they can be added later. Have dealt with a fair number of cars with oddities and they always, well most of the time, take time to discuss, investigate and to make that choice especially on Shelbys since they were so often changed and modified once they were delivered to the first owner

Sorry for being so wordy

[doublemyv]

Many thanks to Brant and Jeff for their own research and expert guidance on the forum once again.  I agree that since the metal coat hook brackets presented with no evidence of coat hooks ever being installed, I will leave the coat hooks off the car.  The fact that the driver side screw hole was unthreaded, and the passenger side bracket had the screw hole mostly blocked by a second layer of sheetmetal behind it that needed drilling to accept a mounting screw is definitive evidence that the car did not come with coat hooks when new.  If Jeff comes up with a survey in the future showing enough non-Shelby mustang fastbacks that had coat hooks over the vents, I would certainly consider re-installing my coat hooks.  Until then, I think this mystery has been solved.  Thanks all,  Mark

[Vernon Estes]

hey doods,

Just jumping in here as I just noticed discussion on the coat hooks. I am currently cleaning up 5S345 which is an unrestored car. The car has its original interior from carpet to headliner, melted gauge pod and everything in between. Headliner is about as mint as they come... no coat hooks. Also no evidence that I can see of a hook being installed on the passenger inner interior vent trim. If there was a hook there, I would assume there would be some sort of witness mark on the original paint showing something pressed into it there.

I will look closer at the inner vent trim today and can take a much nicer pic of the headliner (surprised that this is the only image on my phone currently of that area)

While 345 and 444 feel like a long ways from one another in terms of Shelby number, the Ford numbers are probably right next to each other. Happy to share mine with you, Mark, if you'd like to confirm.

Love the progress Mark, keep it up!

Kind regards,
Vern

[Vernon Estes]

You guys have me going down a rabbit hole now on coat hooks 

5S332, this car has sat idle (until recently)... maintaining its original interior and a very nice headliner. No hooks.

332 and 345's Ford numbers are extremely close to one another.

I also looked back at pictures of 5S335. It has hooks but it's Ford VIN is quite a bit earlier than 332 and 345.

[Vernon Estes]

5S541 was original paint and had a sweet original interior before it unfortunately got restored. I don't know the exact Ford VIN number of this car but I have a block picture where I can read everything up to the 4th sequential digit which tells me that it is very close to 345 and 332.

[Bob Gaines]

Vern you are a trouble maker dude .

[Vernon Estes]

443, another car very close on Ford VIN to 345, 332, 541.. had been painted but a largeley unrestored car which retained a beautiful unrestored interior. No hooks.

[Vernon Estes]

Vern you are a trouble maker dude .

I'm just over here helping Mark document his car as being of the highest echelon of 65 GT350 collectability.

Some of us have always known that these late "coat hanger delete" examples are the ones to have...  it's now time to inform the unwashed masses 

My understanding is that Ken Miles himself phoned the San Jose line and in his thick English accent said "delete them coat hangers out of the interiors... nobody drives these damn things in the snow or rain and we need those extra grams on the track".

Some people probably couldn't square with how hardcore these stripped out, hyper special examples were and the hangers were eventually placed back where they belonged.

At least that's the way I heard it.

Vern

[J_Speegle]

My understanding is that Ken Miles himself phoned the San Jose line and in his thick English accent said "delete them coat hangers out of the interiors... nobody drives these damn things in the snow or rain and we need those extra grams on the track".

LOL   - you know that we're going to see that quoted in some way on the internet in the future. 

[wcampbell]

541 had no coat hooks when I owned it in 2019 as unrestored....

[Vernon Estes]

closer up pics of the headliner areas in 345.

Sorry to hijack the thread Mark but I think you now have ample justification for your missing hooks LOL

[doublemyv]

Thanks for all the help ( and sense of humor ) Vern.   I love the fact that the members like me can learn from the experts on this forum, and have fun with this hobby and not take it too seriously.   Mark

[doublemyv]

The process continues, and it's on to the wiring for # 444.  I am still waiting for the upholstery shop schedule to get the headliner installed, so instead of installing all the interior trim pieces after the headliner install, I am pivoting to the wiring.  Whew...  I bought the complete harness from Pete Disher several years ago, and have laid out all the harness and sub-harnesses on the shop floor next to the original harnesses for comparison.  It's all pretty darn good.  Not exact as far as wire colors everywhere, but very close so far.  I am detailing and installing everything I can find onto the new harnesses while on the bench to make sure it all goes together before having to do it under the dash when my mature body is folded up like a contortionist.  Here's a few photos of what it looks like so far.  Mark

[FL SAAC]

I am still waiting for the upholstery shop schedule to get the headliner installed, so instead of installing all the interior trim pieces after the headliner install

Let us know how that goes,  as its pretty involved with the taking out of both front
and rear  glass
Thanks