Concours Trailered

[Paulb]

Does SAAC have a concours trailered, or do they all have to be driven?

[CharlesTurner]

Concours Div 2 is judged the same no matter if the car is trailered or driven.  An operational check is required for Div 2.

[Paulb]

But Div 2 is non-NOS?

[J_Speegle]

But Div 2 is non-NOS?

You not restricted from using prefect or good original or NOS parts in Division II  it's just that that clss allows the use of good reproduction parts. Really nice or restored original original parts, good NOS or service parts (that look like the originals) or good reproductions are all allowed in that class. Most owners/builders use a mix since many of the reproductions are not good enough to make it through judging without some minor (percentage wise of the total number of points in the section) deduction.Maybe, for example one quarter of a point or slightly more depending.

So bottom line is that all concours rules are on the higher of the two standards - as the car were originally built not their condition 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years after use.

Trailer or "driven" is a completely different thing it's about how the cars are typically used or transported and in clubs that use those definitions typically "driven" class has some "give" built into the rules or scoring to not deduct for some parts. Sometimes it tires, battery and so on.  What things depends on the organizations written rules.

[Coralsnake]

  SAAC should revert to the previous model and call everything "concours". They should still allow reproduction parts when they look like originals and elevate the cars that do not use them at the discretion of the judges to  a different level.

Its time for the third evolution.  Its been 30 years since they divided the classes.

Paul I am already deducting for your wheel and tire choice (just teasing)

[JD]

There is a page on the SAAC Concours Judging Guidelines Section that covers this, but you have to click on the displayed page to open the full 5 page document, here is the link...

https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=23177.0

Below is the Divisions & Classes portion of the text which is on pages 2 and 3, hope this helps...


DIVISIONS AND CLASSES
Divisions: There are four Concours Divisions to be judged against a factory/stock qualifying standard of
approximately 2/3 Authenticity and 1/3 Workmanship.

● Division I: This class is provided for the stock/original restored car, equipped as it came from the
factory, with original or NOS parts.
o All finishes as original (bare steel, plated parts)
o Parts should be period/date correct including engineering numbers, date codes
o Exterior paint should be single stage with the goal of achieving original appearance

● Division II: This class is provided for the stock/original restored car, equipped as it came from the
factory, allowing a wider latitude of acceptable parts.
o All finishes as original (finishes may be replicated as long as parts attain original appearance)
o Parts may be original or reproductions (high quality/authentic reproduction parts accepted for
full points, poor quality reproduction parts may be deducted for)
o Exterior paint - single stage or other paint systems with the goal of achieving original appearance

● Division III: This class is provided for Competition cars, equipped as it came from the factory Shelby
American, specific period builder or as prepared for competition.
o All finishes as original (finishes may be replicated as long as parts attain original appearance)
o Parts may be original or reproductions (high quality/authentic reproduction parts accepted for
full points, poor quality reproduction parts may be deducted for)
o Exterior paint - single stage or other paint systems with the goal of achieving original appearance
o Only period correct modifications accepted according to documentation

● Survivor: This class is provided for original, unrestored cars, equipped as it came from the factory, with
original parts.
o All finishes as original (bare steel, plated parts)
o Parts should be period/date correct including engineering numbers, date codes
o Exterior paint should be single stage with the goal of achieving original appearance
o Reasonable wear acceptable with no deductions

Classes (Division I/II): Class entries will be limited to six (6) cars, on a first-come, first-served basis, to avoid an excessive load on the volunteer judges' time.

[Paulb]

Sorry, my question was vague.  So the car we just finished is what I built to complete in the highest level possible.  I used only NOS parts.  After the build I decided not to fire the engine hoping not to discolor the exhaust or anything thing else.  Does Div1 permit it to be non-running or do I have to start it?

[Coralsnake]

You have to start the car and do function checks.

Division 1 is very very difficult bar to reach.

Do you have original tires, belts, battery, shocks and a complete exhaust system?

[JD]

Sorry, my question was vague.  So the car we just finished is what I built to complete in the highest level possible.  I used only NOS parts.  After the build I decided not to fire the engine hoping not to discolor the exhaust or anything thing else.  Does Div1 permit it to be non-running or do I have to start it?

Highest level possible - in SAAC or MCA?  there are some differences as SAAC cars must function as a car was intended.

Also, to expand on what Pete posted, In SAAC DIV I and DIV II the engine will have to start/run AND engage gears to show the transmission/diff function too.

[Bob Gaines]

You have to start the car and do function checks.

Division 1 is very very difficult bar to reach.

Do you have original tires, belts, battery, shocks and a complete exhaust system?

Wheels?

[Coralsnake]

Well those were just a few items that came to mind.

I would highly recommend anyone to attend an event, before throwing themselves into the fire.

[Paulb]

You have to start the car and do function checks.

Division 1 is very very difficult bar to reach.

Do you have original tires, belts, battery, shocks and a complete exhaust system?

Hey Pete, this one is not the yellow KR you have pics of, or a Shelby at all.  This one is an absolute NOS restoration.  Want me to drop you an email on this one? This is definitely a Div 1

[J_Speegle]

...I would highly recommend anyone to attend an event, before throwing themselves into the fire.

+1 There is no better teacher IMO than experiencing the process, understanding the neuonces and the goal ahead of time. Since some mistakes are hard to correct or to redo, while in other examples almost everything is bolt on and those can be corrected - just cost money and or time.

Just to add one additional point I sort of touched on in my response. In the 80-90's NOS parts were thought to be the best possible parts you could find and use for a restoration. As time and the hobby progressed we discovered and realized that not all "NOS" or service parts were the same nor were they always representative of the parts used on the assembly lines.

Because of this, NOS or service parts can still be used but they may not be good enough to get past the judges or the judging without some deduction. Remember or consider judging and scoring is not a light switch, parts are not always completely correct or incorrect but instead somewhere in the middle so judges will assign a percentage of the total possible points in that section of the judging sheets to represent the difference leaving, room to reward the car where the condition or the details are closer to the goal and standard. Without some amount of deduction, judges can't reward the better job or car though both cars may be awarded the same award level at the end of the day.

Good luck with your choices and be happy with them.

[Coralsnake]

I got an email from Paul, it sounds like he has gotten some good advice and information from a name we all know.

[CharlesTurner]

Division 1, it is optional to start the car during the operational check.  No penalty points for not starting.  In our concours guidelines, page 4.