R Model side windows

[FL SAAC]

Installed raw and painted later. FG bumper was painted - I think 002 was the only one they tried the bumper on. The passenger window on 002 was pop riveted in place and did not go down. Jim Murietta (OVC) has the original tooling for the side windows - he was able to locate it a couple years ago. He's probably the best source for info since he was actually fabricating the cars at the time. He did all the wheel wells - 002's were bigger and the SCCA didn't like them so they were smaller on the rest. It's interesting that 002 is the only one of the first 3 to have the correct serial number tag. Those 3 cars did not get their tags until they had been finished for some time. The street car ended up with 003 and was finished first so the magazines could test it. 002 was the test mule. The 3rd car built was the production "Competition Model". It ended up with the 001 tag - it was Titus' main car and had the most wins. He also used 002 in 2 or 3 races. 5R001 was photographed for the magazines and 003 was written on the cowl in felt pen. This led to confusion and Don Day "restored" 003 to R specs believing it had been originally built as a racecar.
If you take a look at the A/FX Mustangs of Les Richey and Gas Ronda you'll see the R Model side windows. Les built the 65 GT350 drag cars for SA.

truly a wealth of information here, thanks for sharing with us

[spiller]

Fascinating. I did not realise 002 had a fibreglass bumper. I always assumed it was a steel bumper that had been painted.

Going off topic, but which serial no. was raced by Miles on debut in Texas? I read just today that they put over 50,000 miles on 002 during development, so surely they would not have entered that old mule into the first ever race for the Mustang.

Un-related but I also took delivery of a period R model bucket seat today along with the window frames and other goodies. People must have definitely been smaller in the 60s...it is one snug seat for my 6ft, 205 lb frame.

[Bob Gaines]

Fascinating. I did not realise 002 had a fibreglass bumper. I always assumed it was a steel bumper that had been painted.

Going off topic, but which serial no. was raced by Miles on debut in Texas? I read just today that they put over 50,000 miles on 002 during development, so surely they would not have entered that old mule into the first ever race for the Mustang.

Un-related but I also took delivery of a period R model bucket seat today along with the window frames and other goodies. People must have definitely been smaller in the 60s...it is one snug seat for my 6ft, 205 lb frame.

It is meant to keep you from moving and not for comfort. With that said you are no doubt at the limit or maybe a little passed for the typical R model bucket. There are I think 3 different sized competition/R model seats that are out there. The larger sized ones are typically harder to find.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

That said, does anyone here think within a reasonable degree of certainty that a restoration of one of the rarest and most apex predators of the Shelby world would get any salient details wrong? Especially one that would be so open and obvious,

When Larry Zane had 001 restored he spent a lot of money getting the hood flat. When all was said and done he realized that the bow in the hood was apparently intentional to allow high pressure air out.

With only 36 examples in existence, and most being extensively raced, I suspect there is quite a bit of freelancing going on when restoring these cars.

Have they all been found? How many have been rebodied? The Donahue car was rebodied in period how many got the parts transferred to another chassis?

Going off topic, but which serial no. was raced by Miles on debut in Texas? I read just today that they put over 50,000 miles on 002 during development, so surely they would not have entered that old mule into the first ever race for the Mustang.

The car that ended up with the 002 tag was the one they first raced. Think of it as "proof of concept". I'd question the 50,000 miles. At 100 mph average that would be 20+ days non-stop. Over 3 months if that's all they did 8-5 5 days a week. There was not a lot of "development" in the production of the R Models. Ford sent the specs and SA built the cars. They did development work on the IRS but that was done with a Falcon. They did their own engine development but that was on a dyno.

[spiller]

It is meant to keep you from moving and not for comfort. With that said you are no doubt at the limit or maybe a little passed for the typical R model bucket. There are I think 3 different sized competition/R model seats that are out there. The larger sized ones are typically harder to find.

Yep, I get that. I have a more modern factory built race car of a different marque which also has a narrow seat, but this is on about level! I did not realise there were different sizes originally. Great to know.

[spiller]

The car that ended up with the 002 tag was the one they first raced. Think of it as "proof of concept". I'd question the 50,000 miles. At 100 mph average that would be 20+ days non-stop. Over 3 months if that's all they did 8-5 5 days a week. There was not a lot of "development" in the production of the R Models. Ford sent the specs and SA built the cars. They did development work on the IRS but that was done with a Falcon. They did their own engine development but that was on a dyno.

This seems more likely based on other interviews I've heard where it was suggested the cars were hastily put onto the track quite "green" and needed a lot of development on the run in order to be successful in the coming years. I have heard quotes from both Mark Donohue and Walt Hane suggesting this.

[Bob Gaines]

When Larry Zane had 001 restored he spent a lot of money getting the hood flat. When all was said and done he realized that the bow in the hood was apparently intentional to allow high pressure air out.


[/quote]I believe 001 was and still is own by the infamous Rick Nagel of the long defunct Texas based Shelby Museum fame. Rick also owned 002 at one time before selling it to the Boulder Shelby Museum.  The Rick Nagel museum was short-lived and rumored to be a ruse, as Nagel allegedly solicited cars to be donated or purchased at a favorable price for a museum that never came to fruition. I believe Larry Zane had 003 and restored it to r specs thinking it was 001. Larry Zane sold it to Don Day who had it for years. At least that is the way I remember it.

[Bob Gaines]

Fascinating. I did not realise 002 had a fibreglass bumper. I always assumed it was a steel bumper that had been painted.

Going off topic, but which serial no. was raced by Miles on debut in Texas? I read just today that they put over 50,000 miles on 002 during development,

002 did not have a fiberglass bumper. The stock rear bumper was painted initially but later determined it was not needed for weight to off set the heavy front and left off. There is no doubt in my mind and others that the 50,000 mile comment was taken out of context as it was a high number thrown out there sarcastically that was meant to describe many miles put on the 002 car. The true miles were not even close to 50,000.

[Bob Gaines]

I am looking for some info on the installation of the R model plexiglass side windows and frames. Do they simply bolt on to the door in the factory locations or are they welded in?

Also can anyone tell me whether the rivets for the 1/4 vent delete covers were painted body color or left in raw aluminium on the original cars?

Thanks

The first car raced 002 had the windows fixed but it was found to be too hot after miles first race and the car was later modified to slid up and down. Others were done the same. Side panels were left initially unpainted on cars and then later painted. Many cars had the panels painted in place and others had panels painted separate from the car and then installed with rivets that were left aluminum finish. Apparently not a precise swiss watch running operation like we would ideally like to think. The panels did not have pre drilled rivet holes and so they were not uniform in the placement of the rivets . Each cars panel rivet pattern was unique like a finger print. The unique rivet pattern was how 002 was determined to be the car raced at Green Valley. The restorer blew up the vintage picture and compared the pattern to the original pattern in the sheet metal on the car that was being restored. Some of this info was part of some fill in the blanks conversations I have had recently with the restorer of 002 who doesn't like to post and was a little frustrated by some of the urban myths that may be inadvertently perpetuated.

[kranky]

Green Valley....

[spiller]

Amazing info Bob, thank you for sharing.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Larry Zane owned and (had) restored 001 he also owned the Donahue car. Rick Titus drove it at it's debut at Lime Rock. Larry sent it out here to run Monterey. I crewed on the car when it was out here and installed an engine (from Randy Gillis - he bought 2 engines and I stored the second one in my garage for a couple years). 002 is easy to spot by the larger wheel wells. The right side window remained fixed for some time as there are shots of it with Titus driving it later in the season.
Don Day owned 003 it was actually the first car built and it was the street car for the magazines to test. An article was published on the "Competition Model" that showed the number 003 written on the cowl with a felt pen. Thinking his street car was originally a race car that is how Don restored it. It was later found that the first 3 chassis got felt pen numbers and they did not coincide with how the guy stuck the tags on when they arrived.
Here are a couple shots of 002 Titus at an early test with the reverse hood scoop and later in a race at Pomona still with the lip the side window is riveted to.

[TA Coupe]

That first picture looks like it was taken at willow springs?

      Roy

[98SVT - was 06GT]

That first picture looks like it was taken at willow springs?

      Roy

Yes Titus was Sports Car Graphic tech editor and went to Willow to do an article on the car/test. CS asked him if he'd like to drive it and was within a second of Miles' time within a few laps and CS hired him to drive the car in 65.
2nd photo is Pomona Fairgrounds.
BTW: Titus and Shelby had been friends since Titus fixed his Maserati that he was told could not be fixed. Titus was working for Bill Ftick of Studeillac fame at the time in NY. Titus drove a lot of different type cars and won 3 championships in a row - 65 B production GT350 - 66 D Production Porsche - 67 TransAm Mustang.

[mlplunkett]

The original question was for instructions on installing the plexiglass side window frames. I never saw anyone post instructions or a definite source for instructions. I'm interested because I bought a set of the frames from a SAAC member but they didn't have any instructions for installation. If anyone has a source for instructions that would be great.