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New Ford GT to have a V8?

Started by deathsled, August 13, 2021, 08:02:17 AM

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Don Johnston

As long as the next generation  is not a Ford GT-EV, I am okay with whatever Ford develops. 8)
Just nuts.

68countrysedan

QuoteAs long as the next generation  is not a Ford GT-EV, I am okay with whatever Ford develops

100% Amen.

shelbydoug

Quote from: Don Johnston on November 11, 2021, 01:02:55 PM
As long as the next generation  is not a Ford GT-EV, I am okay with whatever Ford develops. 8)

They are currently working on where to put the batteries. Didn't you know?
68 GT350 Lives Matter!

QuickSilverShelby

#18
Dodge is hammering out monster V8's in the Challenger and Demon and Chevy's got a world class V8 Corvette.  And lets not forget all the other's out there building silly little V10's, V12's and V16's.  Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Bugatti, Audi and on and on.

For f#ck sakes, why doesn't Ford give us all what we really want?  A V8 in the Raptor and a V8 in the FGT!  Maybe they're too busy tripping over their skirts and shoving all the pennies they've saved up their a$$es to make it happen. >:(

They can take one of the grossly overpriced V8 Raptors or V8 Ford GT's that they'll sell me and build 10 electric vehicles to offset my carbon footprint OR, JUST MAYBE, my next purchase should be a Challenger, a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, a Mclearen, an Audi or god forbid....... a gawd damn Corvette!!!! :o

QSS

PS.  I cant afford a Bugatti otherwise I would have included it in my "next purchase" rant.  :P



You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

shelbydoug

#19
Here's the thing. For the most part, US vehicle production is still the big three. Ford, GM and Chrysler.

GM and Chrysler have decided to make their "ultra-products" relatively affordable to the American general population.

Ford on the other hand has decided on exclusivity taking theirs out of reach.


Now you may want to point out that Shelby American (Las Vegas) is still in business and that their vehicles are in the "relatively affordable" catagory (the upper end) and that they are "Fords" not Chevys but that's not what we are really talking about here.

We are talking about Ford's decision to compete with the Euro exclusivity of Lamborghini, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc.


Now if I think about it, going way back in my lifetime, this has been the trend from "the Deuce" all along. He always wanted a Ferrari type offering and played with that on more then one occasion.

Certainly Shelby himself enters into this equation with bad mouthing Ferrari and battling with Cobra offerings.

At this point you COULD introduce the GT350 as an argument but it was never really intended by anyone as a Ferrari fighter. It also probably would never have existed if Iococca didn't "commission" Shelby to put more "pizzaz" in the Mustang.


So anyway, enter the GT40. ANOTHER Ioccoca conception of battling Ferrari in Europe with the desirable effect of making the Ford domestic offerings more "sexy".


Now what's my point? There isn't anyone that can argue that the GT40 was intended to be a domestic Corvette market fighter ever. It was in Ford's eyes, a Euro racer, but at some point someone suggested exclusivity to Leddo and they offered 15 Mark III's.


Hum? Now wait a minute. Shelby thinks that sure, I want to beat Ferrari into the pavement with the Cobra. I can offer it to the US public for around 1/2 of the cost of a Ferrari? It SHOULD sell like hot cakes here right?

Not according to the total build data we now know. So eventually Shelby comes around to the thinking of exclusivity with the Cobra.

Why think of them as "Secretaries cars" like the initial reaction to the Mustang was at $2,300 starting prices?


I don't think that was the initial thought of CS but I do think that he changed his thinking eventually and felt vilafied when used  Cobra prices escalated like a Saturn 5 at liftoff.

It became a thing that he didn't want the guys in the mail room owning and driving around LA in 427 Cobras. He wanted "Captains of Industry" exclusively owning them. Stands to reason, that sure satisfied his ego.


Now the nature of Corporate people like Ioccoca is to be multifaceted and set the table for future posibilities where the Corporation could steer in with new self images of what it is or could be? That's really why they command astronomical remuneration well beyond what normal pay would be.

They are there to ENVISION possibilities and influence others into that thinking of discovery.


Lee had that effect at Ford and at Chrysler as well. At one point under his leadership Chrysler bought Lamborghini. Remember him introducing the Diablo with the Chrysler VIN tags in '91?


This present thinking at Ford of exclusivity is just a continuation of this thought process. The "office of the Ford GT" is just an almost independent arm of Ford commissioned to experiment with a bit of creative thinking, seeing where this will all lead to. That's all well and good for the Corp and with their current profit levels is affordable even though if they look at the Ford GT's in any form on a cost per unit basis, a major financial loss.

The sticker price on those things was initially set arbitrarily at $250,000.



Do you think that GM and Chrysler don't watch what the other guy is doing? Of course not.

Previous to the Ford GT, Chrysler had decided on offering the Viper. In all fairness to Chrysler, they never could find a design theme or designers to offer anything that didn't look like some sort of a Hemi taxi cab.  A Checker cab of sorts with a Hemi and automatic transmission with push buttons on the dash.

Ok. I guess they knew their market but the Viper is hardly a Ferrari beater so back to the taxi cab theory of putting monster engines in four doors. Just leave off the push button transmissions?

900hp Demons? Sure BUT they are offered to the general public to commit mass suicide in if desired.


Now GM's idea is a better point and maybe just because they are in a better position of having established product identity in the Corvette? They can take their product development in the Corvette (AND HAVE), eventually apply it to all GM products in one form or another and marginally offer it to the general public without Italian supercar exclusivity prices.

This has the added benefit of rubbing the noses of the Exec's at Ford and Chrysler in the dog do-do amongst other things.


As a just everyday pion at some point in the near future I MIGHT be able to afford the C8 Z06. It is a possibility. It is certainly more attractive to my Walter Mitty-ism then spending $75,000 on a new F150. That simply doesn't cut it.

And (never start a sentence with an And) although the leather in the new Shelby's is intoxicating, somehow, someway along the lines I have lost the desire for those skiny red Penticostal Lemans stripes and street pimp 21" wheels? Those simply aren't going to get me laid anymore! All those 19 year old cashiers at Trader Joes simply don't dig me any more.


So that's the thing. The C8 Corvette is affordable with the same wow factor as the Ford GT at something like 1/4 the price of the Ford GT. That's reality. MY REALITY and even if I had a Ford GT, I couldn't park it in the lot in front of Trader Joes. The Corvette I probably could get away with putting it way in the back.



In addition, ANYONE SUGGESTING that it was Ford who made their exclusive racing parts available to ANYONE across the counter is simply incorrect AND WASN'T there.
Us OLD GUYS were.

GT40 289 heads '60s XE blocks were simply for the 'Friends of the Program. Whereas I could walk into Byrne Brothers Chevy Parts Department in White Plains and buy across the counter absolutely any high performance part that I could come up with the part number on.

Z28 short blocks for $350 for instance, so stop the crap about Ford making their racing parts available. You absolutely, positively DON'T KNOW WTF (in street racing vernacular) you are talking about! I fought those wars. I'll show you the scars. Make up some other stories that sound good.


Ford simply now won't take up the challenge of making their wares available. Chevy is. Where's this all going? It kinda' all looks predictable based upon past history but maybe Ford will surprize us but I wouldn't count on it and I might add, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN AN EV MUSTANG SUV! Get real FoMoCo.

I guess I'm just not one of their Peeps anymore. It's sad. It's like thinking of an old girl friend. Yea you're right. So what? She's pretty old by now.  ::)
68 GT350 Lives Matter!

shelbymann1970

Shelbydoug, I've worked at GM for 36 plus years now. Now with the Vette I believe we have come a long way since I got hired in 1985. Last summer driving our no air conditioned GT350 vert in 90 plus sunny weather at the Woodward dream cruise while parked at M1 Concourse next to other Shelbys and my friend's 67 390 FB my wife looked at my friend's other car he was driving for the weekend- A dark blue 2014 GT500 tastefully modified(Super snake hood and 50 annv SS wheels)parked across the track. She asked how much for a late model cruiser with air and amenities? I know she is receptive to add a late model but I want it to be a C8-specifically a Z06 after watching our 1/2 hour commercial on it. She thinks they are too low and that bothers her. I have no desire to own a late model Shelby at this time. Hopefully I can get her into a C8 or C6-7 and maybe change her mind. Then I'd have to buy a lift and do some other garage work for it to fit. Gary
Shelby owner since 1984
SAAC member since 1990
1970 GT350 4 speed(owned since 1985).
  MCA gold 2003(not anymore)
1969 Mach1 428SCJ 4 speed R-code (owned since 2013)
"2nd" owner of 68 GT500 #1626

shelbymann1970

Quote from: gt350hr on November 11, 2021, 11:20:16 AM
   I can see Ford's idea of using the EcoBoostV6 for "class racing @Lemans" . BUT this is good old USA horsepower racing! Ford needs to stomp on the now rear engine Corvette with a mega V8. The Ford GT has proven it will sell out regardless of "retail price". Just give it POWER.
Randy would it be really fair to compare a V8 GT to a Vette considering the GT would be at least 4 times as expensive? I'm sure a Vette owner could upgrade his Vette, still have a few hundred grand in his pocket and stomp the next gen Ford GT. But GM is also working on electric from drive along with the rear drive for future Vettes so it would make it all interesting. Gary
Shelby owner since 1984
SAAC member since 1990
1970 GT350 4 speed(owned since 1985).
  MCA gold 2003(not anymore)
1969 Mach1 428SCJ 4 speed R-code (owned since 2013)
"2nd" owner of 68 GT500 #1626

shelbydoug

Quote from: shelbymann1970 on November 12, 2021, 09:20:26 AM
Shelbydoug, I've worked at GM for 36 plus years now. Now with the Vette I believe we have come a long way since I got hired in 1985. Last summer driving our no air conditioned GT350 vert in 90 plus sunny weather at the Woodward dream cruise while parked at M1 Concourse next to other Shelbys and my friend's 67 390 FB my wife looked at my friend's other car he was driving for the weekend- A dark blue 2014 GT500 tastefully modified(Super snake hood and 50 annv SS wheels)parked across the track. She asked how much for a late model cruiser with air and amenities? I know she is receptive to add a late model but I want it to be a C8-specifically a Z06 after watching our 1/2 hour commercial on it. She thinks they are too low and that bothers her. I have no desire to own a late model Shelby at this time. Hopefully I can get her into a C8 or C6-7 and maybe change her mind. Then I'd have to buy a lift and do some other garage work for it to fit. Gary

Desperate times require desperate measures!

I'm even thinking of selling one of my "Ford's"! But which one?

Hey. Join the club!  I need a lift now just to polish out my wheels!

Here's the plan!  I can raise the garage roof or the carports to get the lift in...but then I'd wind up stacking the cars and it would defeat the purpose.

Oh what to do, what to do? "Discipline 007...discipline!"
68 GT350 Lives Matter!

FL SAAC

Gentlemen this is pretty simple,  the GT is a much superior engineered vehicle end of conversion.

But at $500,000 + plus price, the vetting process that is ridiculous, very exclusive  and restricts your freedom to market/sell your vehicle.....versus a world class competitor the C8 starting at $60k.

Well you decide and it is easy to decide to purchase a Ford GT if you own your own rocket company and have all the funding in the world (and beyond)you purchase the C8.

Us normal pheasants will settle for the world class C8

But remember this always:

Apparently GM noticed as I did that Ford wanted to offer exclusivity over anything to just a few and at a price only a few could afford.

This is one heck of an answer as to what they can cook up. Great job GM.

Not only has GM "knocked it our of the park", they've redefined the game and shaming Ford is definitely part of the plan.

Pow. Ball is in your court now Ford. Let's see you beat this C8 Corvette. That I want to see. I want to see you make me want the Ford.

I want to see how you word the Shelby vs. the world, Jack the Giant Killer that you sold us in the '60s and convince me that the Ford GT is just that. A world beater for the working class. That would indeed be black magic.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love. ~
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus

Home of the Amazing Hertz 3 + 1 Musketeers

I have all UNGOLD cars

shelbydoug

To say that the Ford is much superior I don't agree with. YOU would need to show me bolt for bolt why. Can you do that?

Yes. The issue is exclusivity. If I think about it, Ford has backed itself into a corner.

Even if it relented and made it's car as available and competitive as the Corvette is price wise, it would get hit with law suites seeking damages for the cars drop in values that it has already sold.

All that glitters isn't gold. This issue of exclusivity has created a perception of greater cost equals greater quality. I say that is a critical flaw of your perception.

However this is a battle of the "Giants", not us mere mortals. We can only hope that GM's actions will create trickle down effects for us here on the ground. Not for those merely up in the clouds?
68 GT350 Lives Matter!

FL SAAC

To get back on topic,  I rember seeing the first GT, i said what a work of art.

Then i viewed the engine and said oh noooooooo !

The Ford representative noticed my dismay and came back it's very fast.

I just kept saying over and over in my head oh nooooooo!

My opinion, if it does get a V8 it will then return to the mans world of cars.

As stated previously by other's :

"And lets not forget all the other's out there building silly little V10's, V12's and V16's.  Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Bugatti, Audi and on and on."
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love. ~
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus

Home of the Amazing Hertz 3 + 1 Musketeers

I have all UNGOLD cars

gt350hr

    Gary,
      "IF" the Ford GT was a "production vehicle" ( instead of limited production) made in similar quantities as the Corvette , I'm positive the price would be more in line with the Vette. We are looking at 10+ times the volume. FORD seriously needs to pay attention to what it's customers want. As I mentioned , I understand the "rules" built turbo V-6 thing but LeMans was won as they targeted to do , so to return to the real Supercar world , they need to up their game. When a commonly available Challenger has more HP, it's hard to look at the GT as a "supercar".Expensive cars MUST have features that draw customers to them as there are more choices than ever. If the Ford GT out performs a Bugatti , Lambo , McLaren etc , people will buy them If it has a 600 HP ( or so) V6 instead of a 1,000 HP V8 , sales will suffer for sure. People with that kind of disposable income don't care about another fifty grand , they just want the ultimate.
      Randy
Celebrating 46 years of drag racing 6S477 and no end in sight.

shelbydoug

Quote from: FL SAAC on November 12, 2021, 10:39:58 AM
To get back on topic,  I rember seeing the first GT, i said what a work of art.

Then i viewed the engine and said oh noooooooo !

The Ford representative noticed my dismay and came back it's very fast.

I just kept saying over and over in my head oh nooooooo!

My opinion, if it does get a V8 it will then return to the mans world of cars.

As stated previously by other's :

"And lets not forget all the other's out there building silly little V10's, V12's and V16's.  Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Bugatti, Audi and on and on."

What changes with the V8? It's just as crippling of concept as the V6. It's only catering to someone else concept. It isn't going to change the exclusivity of the car or create a greater market.

The free thinking on the part of Ford was the turbo V6. They knew it would take criticism but by doing so they were making a statement that they didn't care what the "peanut gallery" wanted or conceived of because it was their concept. Take it or leave it and that didn't matter because they were only going to build ten or eleven of them? Well maybe twelve?

No. If they change it to a V8, it's for other reasons. Not because that's what we want.
68 GT350 Lives Matter!

shelbydoug

#28
Well here's an additional thought.

What would it take for Ford to start up a Corvette type production line and volume?

Could they justify a reduction in price of the Ford GT to Corvette Z06 competitiveness by installing a V8 and claiming that it reduced the cost dramatically?

Did they initially dismiss the thought of competing with the Corvette because the "Corvette market" was impenetrable and maybe are now wavering at a try?

Is Ford way ahead of you on this Doug? Sorry I talk to myself often. Why? I'm the only one that listens.  ;D



I'm actually a little pissed about all of this. We kick this stuff around for free and the Exec's get paid BIG money to do this for a job?  >:(

They probably regularly insult each other and throw spitballs behind each others backs...just like here!  I could be good at that for money?  8)


68 GT350 Lives Matter!

FL SAAC

YOU hit it the nail right on its head  !

they are catering to people with huge disposable incomes, asking them to go to big events and post ALL the fun they are having on social media with their trailered GTs that roll off the ramps unto the red carpet

See, see, see they do drive them.....LMAO  !

Quote from: shelbydoug on November 12, 2021, 10:51:40 AM
Quote from: FL SAAC on November 12, 2021, 10:39:58 AM
To get back on topic,  I rember seeing the first GT, i said what a work of art.

Then i viewed the engine and said oh noooooooo !

The Ford representative noticed my dismay and came back it's very fast.

I just kept saying over and over in my head oh nooooooo!

My opinion, if it does get a V8 it will then return to the mans world of cars.

As stated previously by other's :

"And lets not forget all the other's out there building silly little V10's, V12's and V16's.  Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Bugatti, Audi and on and on."

What changes with the V8? It's just as crippling of concept as the V6. It's only catering to someone else concept. It isn't going to change the exclusivity of the car or create a greater market.

The free thinking on the part of Ford was the turbo V6. They knew it would take criticism but by doing so they were making a statement that they didn't care what the "peanut gallery" wanted or conceived of because it was their concept. Take it or leave it and that didn't matter because they were only going to build ten or eleven of them? Well maybe twelve?

No. If they change it to a V8, it's for other reasons. Not because that's what we want.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love. ~
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus

Home of the Amazing Hertz 3 + 1 Musketeers

I have all UNGOLD cars