1966 Seat Belts

[SFM66H]

I went thru 32 pages in the 1966 category of this Forum and 15 pages in the Concours category, and couldn't find a thread on 1966 seatbelts. So I may have missed it, but here goes...

My understanding of seat belts has always been this: that 1965 to mid-1966 cars had Ray Brown belts and that mid-to-late 1966 cars had Impact belts. The "Definitive Shelby Mustang Guide 1965-1970" seems to concur, stating on page 62, "3-inch competition seat belts replaced the standard 2-inch Mustang straps again in 1966, with Impact replacing Ray Brown as the supplier later in 1966 production." On the same page it also states, "In the absence of a manufacturer's tag, Ray Brown belts can usually be identified by short attachment hooks at the floor end of the belt; Impact belts had longer hooks."

We all know the impossibility of distilling broad terms like "mid 1966" and "later 1966 production" into actual chassis numbers. But page 108 of the same book contains an attempt: "Late cars: Traction bars changed to underride style" - as an example of the evolution of just one component of a "late car." Page 84 states that overrides were discontinued, "About midway through production." The Registry states that is about 920 cars.

So we all know that there are exceptions to every Shelby rule, and I'm sure that will be the case here with seat belts as well. But generally speaking, is the above narrative concerning 1965-1966 GT350 seatbelt suppliers generally considered correct? And is there a rough ballpark number of late cars that were believed to have been equipped with the Impact belts?

Thanks, Kieth

[gt350hr]

 I had a 1400s serial car and it had IMPACT belts with 1966 also on the label. 477 has Ray Brown belts.

[SFM6S087]

I went thru 32 pages in the 1966 category of this Forum and 15 pages in the Concours category, and couldn't find a thread on 1966 seatbelts. So I may have missed it, but here goes...

My understanding of seat belts has always been this: that 1965 to mid-1966 cars had Ray Brown belts and that mid-to-late 1966 cars had Impact belts. The "Definitive Shelby Mustang Guide 1965-1970" seems to concur, stating on page 62, "3-inch competition seat belts replaced the standard 2-inch Mustang straps again in 1966, with Impact replacing Ray Brown as the supplier later in 1966 production." On the same page it also states, "In the absence of a manufacturer's tag, Ray Brown belts can usually be identified by short attachment hooks at the floor end of the belt; Impact belts had longer hooks."

We all know the impossibility of distilling broad terms like "mid 1966" and "later 1966 production" into actual chassis numbers. But page 108 of the same book contains an attempt: "Late cars: Traction bars changed to underride style" - as an example of the evolution of just one component of a "late car." Page 84 states that overrides were discontinued, "About midway through production." The Registry states that is about 920 cars.

So we all know that there are exceptions to every Shelby rule, and I'm sure that will be the case here with seat belts as well. But generally speaking, is the above narrative concerning 1965-1966 GT350 seatbelt suppliers generally considered correct? And is there a rough ballpark number of late cars that were believed to have been equipped with the Impact belts?

Thanks, Kieth

Not sure about using the attachment hooks to I.D. the manufacturer. Back in the 80's I bought 3 original Ray Brown seat belts from a guy who said he took them out of 1966 GT350s. And he showed me those cars in a storage building behind his house. I took pictures of the belts and the old, original tags on them. They all had Ray Brown tags and long attachment hooks.

Steve

[Jbarela]

I remember this topic from the old forum. So much valuable info. I also seem to remember that 65 rmodels were impact with ling hooks and were not chrome plated, dont remember the plating but my old brain wants to say Cad plated?

[gt350hr]

   I agree with your observations. The attachment hooks were shorter on my carryover cars than they are on 477s. I am truly amazed at how many people believe that companies paid attention to details like this. There wasn't a "spec" on hook length for SAI , I assure you. It was "send us 500 /1,000, 2,000 , 3" lap belts with chrome hardware". Doing the same for Ford Motor Co.  WOULD be more specific and "probably" call out all the details. While there were production similarities , these cars were not 100% uniform throughout the run of 2,378 cars as we all know and accept.

[GT350Lad]

Yea old forum had a massive post in this. 373 has long hooks and Ray browns. Original belts 

[jk66gt350]

6S1575 has Ray Brown Belts that I am quite sure are original.  I've met or exchanged info with a couple of other members on this forum with cars in the 1400 - 1500 range that had Ray Brown belts as well. 

[Brant]

I think that you may find Ray Browns in cars that are later than you think.

There is no reason to believe that 6S1732 doesn't have the original belts. They are Ray Browns.

[SFM66H]

Randy,

To avoid any (more) confusion on this topic, I wanted to offer clarification about your statement above. Cummings and Sander belts are IMPACT belts, as seen here on both sides of the same tag. There's even a CS on the front IMPACT side of the tag. If I misunderstood you, or if you disagree with this, let me know and I will ammend my post.

Thanks!
Kieth

[gt350hr]

   Keith,
      I FULLY agree . There are ALSO belts out there which simply say Cummings and Sanders without the IMPACT branding. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear in my original post.

   Brant,
     I also FULLY agree that Ray Brown belts were used on later cars as well.  It is possible car production was higher than Ray Brown Co could handle at some point and the second source (Impact) was used. I as told many years ago belts "in the day" were made 20-50 sets at a time "normally" so a couple thousand at once was a giant order. Things were a little slower back then LOL.

[StanG]

Hi all,  This is a timely post. 

I have been looking at the seat belts in 6S1534 and they are Impact labels (but with a cadmium finish and not chrome).  Also, the "impact" labels look different to the ones I have seen in this thread.  They have "American Safety F4077 Model No. CB-500XL" on one side and "IMPACT Conforms to federal motor vehicle safety standards and all state regulations" on the other.

These are the small labels.  I assumed there may be a set of larger 'CS IMPACT' labels that are missing?  Would that be right?  The leather pads are also missing. Denny (6S1568) is helping me out with those.

I have cleaned the belts but the snap hooks, latch and tongue are all well used. They are next on the list for a clean and polish. I was initially under the impression that the fittings should be chrome rather than a cadmium finish? In all other respects the belts seem to fit the descriptions for the later 66 cars.  There isn't any other branding, although there are some other stamped numbers including "G 9" ,  "A.S.E.", "MS 22013" and "MS22003-1" on the fittings.

I would appreciate any thoughts from the group.

Cheers

Stan

[s2ms]

Stan,

From my observations the American Safety/Impact labeled belts are very late 60's-early 70's vintage and likely not original for 6S1534. I had a set exactly like this in 6S1757 when I bought it in 1987. Found out they were put there by a previous owner because the originals were long gone when he bought the car in 1972. He installed new American Safety/Impact belts while prepping the car for B/P racing.

Dave

[StanG]

Thanks Dave,

Denny thought that might be the case too.  It's interesting if they are from a similar era. I'm curious, but even reading this thread, I guess there could be all sorts of reasons for changing/replacing them. Did you end up getting replacements for 6S1757? 

I don't see many good original ones on offer.  If anyone has a set (or part thereof...) let me know.

In the meantime I'll polish them up and keep using them.

Cheers

Stan

[pmustang]

2170. And has what I believe would be described as long clips

[s2ms]

Thanks Dave,

Denny thought that might be the case too.  It's interesting if they are from a similar era. I'm curious, but even reading this thread, I guess there could be all sorts of reasons for changing/replacing them. Did you end up getting replacements for 6S1757? 

I don't see many good original ones on offer.  If anyone has a set (or part thereof...) let me know.

In the meantime I'll polish them up and keep using them.

Cheers

Stan

Stan,

Yes I did. Years ago I bought a set of restored belts but the hardware was more typical of 65 belts. Then about 3-4 years ago I decided to make a set myself with the hardware I felt 6S1757 would most likely originally have had based on nearby cars with original belts. The time consuming part was collecting period correct hardware but finally found enough, rechroming costs were a slap in the face, but otherwise they turned out fantastic IMO. An option you might consider.

Dave