So I have a '67 that a previous owner installed an early Paxton on. I called Paradise Wheels and asked Craig Connely, who has always a big help to me, what the fuel line leading to the Carb box should be. I currently have a rubber hose leading from the fuel pump to the carb box. Mr Connely said that was correct, but online I see cars that have metal gas lines. What is technically correct for judging, not that I ever plan to ever go that route. I'm just curious. I've included how the hose is connected inside the box.
https://imageshack.com/i/pohAvkuVj (https://imageshack.com/i/pohAvkuVj)
I have a pdf of the Paxton installation manual I can email that may show it
Quote from: BGlover67 on July 16, 2025, 01:52:52 PMSo I have a '67 that a previous owner installed an early Paxton on. I called Paradise Wheels and asked Craig Connely, who has always a big help to me, what the fuel line leading to the Carb box should be. I currently have a rubber hose leading from the fuel pump to the carb box. Mr Connely said that was correct, but online I see cars that have metal gas lines. What is technically correct for judging, not that I ever plan to ever go that route. I'm just curious. I've included how the hose is connected inside the box.
https://imageshack.com/i/pohAvkuVj (https://imageshack.com/i/pohAvkuVj)
The rubber line would be the more typical fuel line . The engineering drawing of the Paxton installation indicates a rubber fuel line . I am not aware of a Ford or Shelby made steel line for the Paxton . I wouldn't say a metal line was never used from the factory but at the very least the rubber line would be extremely more common. If I saw a rubber fuel line on a factory Paxton car in concours judging I wouldn't give it a second thought. By contrast if I saw a metal line metal fuel line I would expect the entrant to provide reasonable proof (factory or vintage era photos, documents etc.) to justify the metal line. FYI past owner here say , friend of a friend testimony or internet restored cars doesn't typically carry any weight for a out of the ordinary thing like a metal fuel line in this Paxton context.
I wanted to add that a metal line from the fuel pump to the carb will conduct heat and cook the fuel a lot faster then the better insulating value of a rubber hose.
I sold both of my early paxton set ups to guys on SAAC.
One had correct numbers for a 65 Shelby, the other had numbers for a 66 Shelby.
Both of these went on REAL S/C Shelby's
I discarded the pictures, these were both very complete. Should have kept the pictures.
""" I think both had a brass fitting that bolted through/onto the chamber box, then rubber lines hooked the bowls together inside the box.
Rubber rubbing against the alum bonnet hole is a real bad idea IMO !
Outside had a slide on fitting that hooked onto the brass fitting going inside the chamber.
I think it was rubber from the fuel pump to that fitting on the bonnet.
BGlpverver, >> are the paxton units black or blue case, I have found that later units were white
The original "Shelby blue prints" do not show the fuel pump or how the fuel line comes from the pump, but they do show what appears to be a rubber hose connection at the air box and carb connection.
Quote from: Harris Speedster on July 17, 2025, 08:59:08 AMI sold both of my early paxton set ups to guys on SAAC.
One had correct numbers for a 65 Shelby, the other had numbers for a 66 Shelby.
Both of these went on REAL S/C Shelby's
I discarded the pictures, these were both very complete. Should have kept the pictures.
""" I think both had a brass fitting that bolted through/onto the chamber box, then rubber lines hooked the bowls together inside the box.
Rubber rubbing against the alum bonnet hole is a real bad idea IMO !
Outside had a slide on fitting that hooked onto the brass fitting going inside the chamber.
I think it was rubber from the fuel pump to that fitting on the bonnet.
BGlpverver, >> are the paxton units black or blue case, I have found that later units were white
The unit is blue, and the carb box says Cobra, not Shelby. I was reading on Pete disher's website that the Shelby version is much rarer.
(https://imageshack.com/i/poJo8Ze8j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/poas7jDdj)
A couple of observations:
The words "Shelby Supercharger" appear to be pressed in from the backside of the Paxton label.
And seems odd to me that the fuel pump is on the left Side front of the engine and yet the fuel line is run into the carb box on the right side center. That's a lot of hose to route last a lot of stuff.
Now,this is going to make me look up the Shelby Supercharger installation sheets I bought through our club Snakebite so many years ago. back.
Quote from: roddster on July 17, 2025, 11:16:57 AMA couple of observations:
The words "Shelby Supercharger" appear to be pressed in from the backside of the Paxton label.
And seems odd to me that the fuel pump is on the left Side front of the engine and yet the fuel line is run into the carb box on the right side center. That's a lot of hose to route last a lot of stuff.
Now,this is going to make me look up the Shelby Supercharger installation sheets I bought through our club Snakebite so many years ago. back.
I'd appreciate that.
Consider that much of what is available as resources and original documents is not from 67 production so there may have been some changes, a possibility, between when SA was installing them in 66 and then in 67. They would most likely use one of the kits but the worker or workers typically assigned to installation on these few cars may have made some choies to make installation easier.
- The blue prints appear to be labeled GT350 (302) 1968 or at least the copies I have of a blue print show that, so a later version that as Doug mentioned shows a flex hose coming up to and entering the box. Print is also labeled as Supercharger with Thermactor
- Pictures of a Paxton installation kit for a Mustang/Shelby, unknown version or year, show a dark colored long hose and two other shorter dark hoses attached to a T for the fuel line as shown in the blue print
- Installation instructions mentions (Step 26) smog device but this is likely the PCV IMO. The copy I have includes stuff for many different car models, some drawings - not all specific to our cars. Its interesting that in one drawing which could be for a SB ford it shows an autolite carb and not the flex T'd off hoses for the Holley carb application. The "packet" included with the instructions I have also had pages from as far back as 1958 along with what we have believed were more recent sections and pages
- Fair number of earlier than 67 magazines with articles showing the Paxton installed on Mustangs and Ted's 6S392 but as mentioned practice could have changed
- To be fair there are very very few unrestored or played with original Paxton cars especially 67's so photo evidence is very thin. Will offer (not saying it is a smoking gun but must be at least noted) that I've found pictures of two unrestored 67 GT350's that both appear to have modified steel standard fuel line from pump to carb area of the intake.
- Since you specifically asked about judging rather than what was original that can be a different answer. What is allowed verses what was original sometimes becomes a factor when you narrow it to judging.
As far as left (drivers side) verses right (passenger side) orientation it makes perfect sense to me if they were planning on using a Holley then the dual inlets on the passenger side (one for each bowl) would be used. Put a plug in the drivers side inlet of the front fuel bowl, pull off the balance tube and connect a flexible T'd off hose and you have two connections for the fuel needs.
Of course if someone had included the use of an Autolite during the planning and design the passenger side forward edge would line up pretty close to the inlet for that one
See attached Paxton Installation Manual
I've never seen the fuel line come in from the rear like yours. Always thought a rubber line coming in from front on passenger side inline with a cut Holley 715 fuel line was correct. Recently have seen coming in perpendicular the the air box on passenger side but that seems to be a more recent development when using a Holley double pumper.
Jon
Quote from: 1175 on July 17, 2025, 07:15:39 PMI've never seen the fuel line come in from the rear like yours. Always thought a rubber line coming in from front on passenger side inline with a cut Holley 715 fuel line was correct. Recently have seen coming in perpendicular the the air box on passenger side but that seems to be a more recent development when using a Holley double pumper.
Jon
Jon, I'm not quite sure what you mean. It doesn't come in from the rear, it enters the box from the passengers side.
(http://imageshack.com/i/poUYIGAwj)
My mistake. Must have been looking at power brake booster line.
Jon
Another thing to confirm: I recall that an Autolite carb was to be installed and not the Holley 715.
Quote from: J_Speegle on July 17, 2025, 04:48:03 PMWill offer (not saying it is a smoking gun but must be at least noted) that I've found pictures of two unrestored 67 GT350's that both appear to have modified steel standard fuel line from pump to carb area of the intake.
This is as I remember it ;) ; but sorry no documentation. :(
As I recall, the single longer length of rubber hose provided (with clamps) was to be attached to the O.E.M. steel fuel line as threaded into the pump, but which was to be sectioned somewhere about as it emanated from behind any accessories mounted and forward of the intake manifold. Specifics were vague on specifically where to cut the steel line, and the sum of hose provided was generous, but I suppose considering the "universal" application approach this was to be expected; but it seemed a bit suspect in that they felt 'just' clamping the rubber hose to the steel line being cut, but without any sort of proper beading of the steel line for hose retention, just always seemed a bit sketchy. :)
B.T.W. Does anybody have a bill of materials list for one of these (of the period) and if so, is there a line item for a threaded hose-barb fitting for the fuel pump? ???
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on July 18, 2025, 01:17:30 PM................. B.T.W. Does anybody have a bill of materials list for one of these (of the period) and if so, is there a line item for a threaded hose-barb fitting for the fuel pump? ???
Scott.
The instructions along with the additional pages from whomever originally scanned them is the same group of documents I have also. One of the pages after the instructions includes a list of (page 11 of the 13 in this group) parts. 53 items with one removed/crossed out of the list and based on the fonts a couple of items added - example hose for the "smog" attachment.
There is a list on one of the following
I got that document in hard copy 40 years ago with a Paxton.
Quote from: Rickmustang on July 18, 2025, 01:52:15 PMI got that document in hard copy 40 years ago with a Paxton.
Thanks Interesting mix of "new" and old but not unusual for the time period from some makers
Quote from: roddster on July 18, 2025, 12:29:50 PMAnother thing to confirm: I recall that an Autolite carb was to be installed and not the Holley 715.
I think that likely the variation on the details is as stated, "depends on the model year".
The picture that Brian posted, agrees pretty closely with what the '68 blueprint that I have illustrates, with one exception, the drawing shows a carb with an air horn intact.
Considering the date of that drawing and the close resemblance of the carb to the '68 S8MS-9510-A and C carbs, I would guess, one of those was the model for the drawing?
Knowing of the space limitations of the air box, although I've never attempted to fit a Lemans bowl carb in the box, and I have my doubts it will fit?
I do agree that I have heard the discussion that the air box was intended for an Autolite carb initially. I'm not aware of different castings for the various carbs possible but who knows for sure?
They all were "add on kits". Just the tops seem to vary with the Paxton, Shelby and Cobra monikers.
I should point out also that I think the original steel fuel lines were intended for the Autolite carbs and not specifically for the Holleys. So the left and right side connections can vary according to the applications?
Quote from: roddster on July 18, 2025, 12:29:50 PMAnother thing to confirm: I recall that an Autolite carb was to be installed and not the Holley 715.
You are correct Sir, but the Holley swap is a pretty common detail these days I was told from Craig.
Hi Brian and all Paxton owners,
Just a message from years of twisting wrenches. Fuel line must be checked constantly as it will degrade with age. That is why it is date coded. Also noticed so far no one has mentioned how important it is to seal the fuel line to the bonnet. The pic posted shows a grommet that should do the job. A small pressure loss from an air leak hurts performance. Another important part is the exhaust system. Craig Conley has spent years with these and Knows the best setup. Have fun and enjoy the drive.
R.R.
Quote from: BGlover67 on July 17, 2025, 10:39:56 AMThe unit is blue, and the carb box says Cobra, not Shelby. I was reading on Pete disher's website that the Shelby version is much rarer.
CS lost rights to the Cobra name in mid 67 so any he sold after that would have said Shelby.
Quote from: roddster on July 18, 2025, 12:29:50 PMAnother thing to confirm: I recall that an Autolite carb was to be installed and not the Holley 715.
The 715 with the LeMans bowls would not fit. The Autolite was easiest to use. It had more room - could be rejetted from the top - etc.
Quote from: roddster on July 18, 2025, 12:29:50 PMAnother thing to confirm: I recall that an Autolite carb was to be installed and not the Holley 715.
I agree with that observation. I also remember that a least that on some 66 cars that the 65 style fuel pump with integral fuel filter was modified and used. On the later cars the Carter clam shell pump without filter was modified to be used and a clear fuel filter was plumbed inline on the rubber hose to the bonnet.
Here's some pictures of Paxton literature that I bought from a Paxton installation business that went out of business in the mid 70's. The IRS was holding an auction and Jack Schroll who owned Mostly Mustangs bought most of the Paxton stuff. Lots of magnesium pulleys, belts and a lot of blueprints for putting blowers on cas as late as a 240z. I Remember that because we had one at the time.
The pictures in Red are a single sheet front and back. The pictures to follow are a single large sheet that was folded to make 4 pages. Both were folded twice to make them 1/3 the size. I have extras of both if anyone is interested in buying. $25 for a pair that includes mailing.
Roy
Pictures of the other literature.
Roy
Thanks Roy, those sheets are great, thanks for sharing them. Are those numbers really to be believed? I mean 0-60 with a stock 3.89 rear going from 7.7 seconds to a pretty impressive 4.4 seconds for the blown version.
TA coupe,
great material, pictures are always worth a thousand words!
Seeing one of the 2 ways air cleaners were mounted is cool also.
Made me go back in my stash, found a early square air bonnet, pulley & more>> like the one in
the article you introduced.
Thanks
John
PS, Quick edit>> I also noticed that there appears to be a brass fitting with a hose connected to it in the bonnet, look closely at the pic with the guy in white shirt and tie.
Is this what you are referring to?
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on July 23, 2025, 06:24:29 PMIs this what you are referring to?
Roy
Roy,
Yes, that is what caught my eye,
I wanted to make a correction in my initial post, the original 1966 paxton set up, had late 66-67 date. The SAAC member did buy it for an early Paxton built 1967 GT 350.
These small differences in installation details are interesting but I think prime examples of why there is a variation in judging what is "original" and what is not.
The print of the SA detailed installation drawing is dated, 8/15/67, and "Titled 1968 (302)".
It just shows a continuous "flexible" hose running through the bottom half of the plenum and running to what looks like "a Mr.Gasket universal "T" fitting".
I don't know if there are earlier versions of the SA "installation blue print" for 65, 66 and '67? This is the first one that I came accross and was in a batch of original pencil drawings that were given to SAAC back in '82 or so in Dearborn II.
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 24, 2025, 09:19:15 AMThese small differences in installation details are interesting but I think prime examples of why there is a variation in judging what is "original" and what is not.
The print of the SA detailed installation drawing is dated, 8/15/67, and "Titled 1968 (302)".
It just shows a continuous "flexible" hose running through the bottom half of the plenum and running to what looks like "a Mr.Gasket universal "T" fitting".
I don't know if there are earlier versions of the SA "installation blue print" for 65, 66 and '67? This is the first one that I came accross and was in a batch of original pencil drawings that were given to SAAC back in '82 or so in Dearborn II.
You hit the nail on the head. There are many things in Mustang/Shelby concours judging where there is a "range" of what is acceptable. Range of paint shade or installation configurations are some of them. If something is outside that typical range or out of the ordinary in judging and is claimed to be original is when reasonable proof is expected to help the judges make the best call IMO. Most of the time determination is left to up to the judge to decide based on their experience. I for one am constantly updating my database so as to try and give the best determination in concours judging. Discussions like this help fine tune conscientious.
talking of details;
The early 1965 set up that a saac member bought, had a light bluish hose, not black.
I noticed again from TA coupe that the one picture clearly shows the whole hose is light colored, I would definitely say light blue like the original I sold >>> for concourse judging guys
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on July 24, 2025, 11:28:02 AMtalking of details;
The early 1965 set up that a saac member bought, had a light bluish hose, not black.
I noticed again from TA coupe that the one picture clearly shows the whole hose is light colored, I would definitely say light blue like the original I sold >>> for concourse judging guys
John
A gray color is what I have seen on some 67 setups. They show up as light shaded in B+W photos. I wonder if blue grey is what you are seeing.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 24, 2025, 02:56:41 PMQuote from: Harris Speedster on July 24, 2025, 11:28:02 AMtalking of details;
The early 1965 set up that a saac member bought, had a light bluish hose, not black.
I noticed again from TA coupe that the one picture clearly shows the whole hose is light colored, I would definitely say light blue like the original I sold >>> for concourse judging guys
John
A gray color is what I have seen on some 67 setups. They show up as light shaded in B+W photos. I wonder if blue grey is what you are seeing.
Bob,
The only reason I brought it up, was that the one early set that was here for 8 years with light blue hose, and referring to TA COUPE pictures again,
Perhaps the one in the picture is grey, looks much brighter though ?
No matter, the set up was 90% complete, down to clamps.
The late 66 early 67 unit had a black hose though.
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on July 24, 2025, 10:35:25 PMBob,
The only reason I brought it up, was that the one early set that was here for 8 years with light blue hose, and referring to TA COUPE pictures again,
Perhaps the one in the picture is grey, looks much brighter though ?
No matter, the set up was 90% complete, down to clamps.
The late 66 early 67 unit had a black hose though.
John
We need to remember that the photo Roy posted was sort of a one off. Looks like a group at Ford or at Paxton somewhere testing things out and not just installing a boxed kit. Plenty of other non-factory stock items shown in the engine compartment so no telling how many different set ups they tested on that mule also. IMO can't be used a a major guide to what they were doing and of course these are not the people that would be doing the installation year or two or three later in CA at SA. There are other examples that would be better IMHO examples of what Shelby did on cars they built and assembled with factory paxtons. One would be the Blair car - late 66 factory paxton with maybe one change or none (believe the belt on the car is no longer factory) since it left Shelby
Just an observation
A slightly different brochure.
Roy