I know that the 68 and 69 GT500's had the Ford decals on the heads, but i can't recall ever seeing a '67 with them?
Should they have one?
Yes that is the way they quickly identified specific engines when shipping or choosing the correct one for a vehicle at the car assembly plant.
Can \be allot of fun applying them if you forget to before the alternator and/or the thermactor pump ::)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-160121000243.jpeg)
OK thanks. What is the one I should look for for a 4sp, no air, no T/E?
Should it have a metal tag also?
Others will know better if this is "correct".
Also NPD's description of where to place it on 1967's is not as stated and illustrated above by Jeff - I'd do as Jeff says!
NPD - offers:
https://www.npdlink.com/product/decal-engine-engine-id-code-400-a-good/125710?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3DD-228%26top_parent%3D200001%26year%3D
Looks like this:
Quote from: JD on January 16, 2021, 01:42:01 PM
Others will know better if this is "correct".
Also NPD's description of where to place it on 1967's is not as stated and illustrated above by Jeff - I'd do as Jeff says!
NPD - offers:
https://www.npdlink.com/product/decal-engine-engine-id-code-400-a-good/125710?backurl=search%2Fproducts%3Fsearch_terms%3DD-228%26top_parent%3D200001%26year%3D
Looks like this:
That is a imperfect repro . FE engines were not built at the Lima "L" engine plant. The repro sticker was apparently copied wrong. They were built at the Dearborn /Rouge engine plant.Ether use the imperfect repro or make one yourself.
Agree with Bob. You can make a better one yourself using a printer and whatever program you use to make letters appear on paper. And as is normally the case the description from NPD on where to put it is way wrong.
There is a chart on Fordification.com
https://www.fordification.com/tech/engineIDtags.htm
There is no identification code listed on their chart for a 67 GT500. The Osborn page shows a 400.
Is the chart just incomplete? What is the right code for a M/T?
My P-touch can do a label but only up to 1" high. Jeff's pictures show a label about 1" x 3-1/2" or 4". What are the dimensions of the label usually?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 16, 2021, 04:22:11 PM
There is a chart on Fordification.com
https://www.fordification.com/tech/engineIDtags.htm
There is no identification code listed on their chart for a 67 GT500. The Osborn page shows a 400.
Is the chart just incomplete? What is the right code for a M/T?
My P-touch can do a label but only up to 1" high. Jeff's pictures show a label about 1" x 3-1/2" or 4". What are the dimensions of the label usually?
The chart is apparently incomplete . 400 on the sticker is for a manual and no thermactor just like in the Shelby VIN . I will let someone else measure sticker ,letters etc.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 16, 2021, 04:22:11 PM
There is a chart on Fordification.com
https://www.fordification.com/tech/engineIDtags.htm
There is no identification code listed on their chart for a 67 GT500. The Osborn page shows a 400.
Is the chart just incomplete? What is the right code for a M/T?
Well it is a site for decoding Ford products not Shelby's. Codes are there just no identified for our needs on this site
For this application (1967 GT500's) the main code matches the three digits in your cars VIN and matches the number on the aluminum ID tag installed on the car (to answer your earlier question)
67 GT500 automatic - no AC & no Thermactor
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-160121165116.jpeg)
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 16, 2021, 04:22:11 PM
My P-touch can do a label but only up to 1" high. Jeff's pictures show a label about 1" x 3-1/2" or 4".
You don't want to us a P-touch for the label. Won't even be close in look or material. Originally this was a paper-based label with a clear top layer. Came in a roll and the engine plant would cut off a section for each engine. This produced a jagged edge like you would find on a large (think 3-4" packaging tape) tape dispenser
I make mine using an drawing program to to get the spacing and correct fonts (yes draw each letter and number individually from scratch) import that into published (just find the program suits my need and know it pretty well) resize the design and arrange them so I can make multiples so I reduce waste. Print them in a laser jet printer to reduce ink bleed. After that step run them through a small machine that applies an adhesive backing, then apply a clear top layer then cut out individual labels.
Older thread over on CMF on the general subject
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7734.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7734.0)
Excellent info.
The Brother P-touch CUBE Plus Bluetooth Label Maker (PT-P710BT) is quite capable of counterfeiting this label with the exception of the cut.
You set all of the info in a software program and it prints it on a laminated self-adhesive label Here is would be 1" black on white tape.
For the sake of discussion, you could scan a Ford logo and print it to the a label as well.
The only question in my mind would be how durable the label adhesive is?
It isn't any good for printing $100 bills though. ;)
The other information on the label is the assembly plant and what?
On the label, what is the number and degree sign for?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 16, 2021, 06:50:13 PM
On the label, what is the number and degree sign for?
Ignition timing.
And the Font style is??
Quote from: roddster on January 17, 2021, 11:19:23 AM
And the Font style is??
It's probably Microgama bold but you need to match it up with the chart.
With that P-touch, you can select the type style in the software on your PC or your smartphone.
Considering much of the label is concealed by the alternator, close is probably good enough? How many originals have you actually ever seen? Even Jeff posted pics of just a plain FE, not a SI (special interceptor).
On the subject of the metal tag, where does it mount on this engine? I'd think maybe under the coil bracket?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 17, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
Quote from: roddster on January 17, 2021, 11:19:23 AM
And the Font style is??
It's probably Microgama bold but you need to match it up with the chart.
On the subject of the metal tag, where does it mount on this engine? I'd think maybe under the coil bracket?
Under the coil bracket is the typical spot.
Thanks. ;)
I'm working with this guy who says he can make the label exact to my specifications.
Notice that his label has the "tape dispenser" cut on the ends?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-1965-1966-1967-1968-Ford-Mustang-Engine-ID-Decal-Factory-Exact-Sticker/163176367533?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
We'll see? It's only seven bucks.
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 19, 2021, 08:33:42 AM
I'm working with this guy who says he can make the label exact to my specifications.
Notice that his label has the "tape dispenser" cut on the ends?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-1965-1966-1967-1968-Ford-Mustang-Engine-ID-Decal-Factory-Exact-Sticker/163176367533?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
We'll see? It's only seven bucks.
Tape dispenser ends is how I have always found them . At least the ones that were in good enough shape to tell. They were not designed to last any longer then when the engine was installed. Ecs is great company. They have resisted making them before because they didn't have a good sample to go by I am told.
Well perhaps they are turning over a new leaf? I'm waiting for a reply. Usually it's late in the afternoon?
If the information, besides the L (Lima) plant ID, is NOT correct on JD's posted picture, and they will print the correct information according to the specs that I give, and they can do it with the "tape dispenser" cuts, for $7, it's worth a shot?
Offhand right now, I don't remember if it's laminated or not, but I would think that would help even if the originals were just paper with no lamination?
It's not a life and death thing to have on the car but it is kinda' cool. It's something that the builder (me) needs to feel good or even better about the effort put in. 8)
The next label is going to be for the rear axle housing. Why stop at just the engine?
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 19, 2021, 10:58:47 AM
Well perhaps they are turning over a new leaf? I'm waiting for a reply. Usually it's late in the afternoon?
If the information, besides the L (Lima) plant ID, is correct on JD's posted picture, and they will print the correct information according to the specs that I give, and they can do it with the "tape dispenser" cuts, for $7, it's worth a shot?
Offhand right now, I don't remember if it's laminated or not, but I would think that would help even if the originals were just paper with no lamination?
It's not a life and death thing to have on the car but it is kinda' cool. It's something that the builder (me) needs to feel good or even better about the effort put in. 8)
The next label is going to be for the rear axle housing. Why stop at just the engine?
yes I have seen a thin clear outer covering separate from the paper on some examples I have seen. It sticker is similar to the other engine ID sticker they make.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 19, 2021, 11:06:19 AM
yes I have seen a thin clear outer covering separate from the paper on some examples I have seen. It sticker is similar to the other engine ID sticker they make.
[/quote]
Bob, as I recall, the clear outer film is much thinner than say "clear packaging tape", it's a very thin "skin" ??
jim p
Quote from: 6R07mi on January 19, 2021, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 19, 2021, 11:06:19 AM
yes I have seen a thin clear outer covering separate from the paper on some examples I have seen. It sticker is similar to the other engine ID sticker they make.
Bob, as I recall, the clear outer film is much thinner than say "clear packaging tape", it's a very thin "skin" ??
jim p
[/quote]If making your own engine sticker the packing tape will work given you can't tell how thick the clear is from looking at it after applied to a made up sticker. Yes the original is thin just like used on the repro engine stickers ECS makes up.
Quote from: 6R07mi on January 19, 2021, 02:32:14 PM
Bob, as I recall, the clear outer film is much thinner than say "clear packaging tape", it's a very thin "skin" ??
jim p
Correct but still attached to the paper and applied to the engine its very very difficult to determine the thickness of the layer. Only once the decal starts coming apart after years on an original is the thickness apparent. Plus the packaging or "magic tape" (if you want something very thin) is readily available for those DYI individuals
Never a comment or notice in over twenty years :)
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 19, 2021, 08:33:42 AM
I'm working with this guy who says he can make the label exact to my specifications.
Notice that his label has the "tape dispenser" cut on the ends?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-1965-1966-1967-1968-Ford-Mustang-Engine-ID-Decal-Factory-Exact-Sticker/163176367533?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
We'll see? It's only seven bucks.
Are you waiting to hear back if they have 428/manual ?
Quote from: 2112 on January 19, 2021, 03:40:53 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on January 19, 2021, 08:33:42 AM
I'm working with this guy who says he can make the label exact to my specifications.
Notice that his label has the "tape dispenser" cut on the ends?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-1965-1966-1967-1968-Ford-Mustang-Engine-ID-Decal-Factory-Exact-Sticker/163176367533?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
We'll see? It's only seven bucks.
Are you waiting to hear back if they have 428/manual ?
I asked on Friday and they responded yesterday stating that they can make anything that I want but that I'd have to supply the details for the label since they had no data for the 67 GT500.
I answered this morning explaining what I wanted and asked for confirmation that they could make it. As of this moment they have not replied.
At this point they do not have a "400" pre-made and have no data to make one accurately. I would need to give them that info.
I am also working on having an engine decal made for my '67 GT 500, manual, no a/c and no thermactor. Trying to verify factory timing.
Is it 8 degrees as the NPD sticker reflects in this thread or is it 6 degrees as found for 428 CJ cars? Motor built designation is a D for Dearborn, thanks to Mr. Bob Gaines.
Trying to figure out font for the D and timing number?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks;
Mike
Quote from: shelby1848 on January 29, 2021, 05:57:06 PM
I am also working on having an engine decal made for my '67 GT 500, manual, no a/c and no thermactor. Trying to verify factory timing.
Is it 8 degrees as the NPD sticker reflects in this thread or is it 6 degrees as found for 428 CJ cars? Motor built designation is a D for Dearborn, thanks to Mr. Bob Gaines.
Trying to figure out font for the D and timing number?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks;
Mike
I have learned if all else fails read the owners manual. 8 degrees.
Hey Mike would you be interested in making extra and I would purchase a few from you?
Quote from: shelby1848 on January 29, 2021, 05:57:06 PM
I am also working on having an engine decal made for my '67 GT 500, manual, no a/c and no thermactor. Trying to verify factory timing.
Is it 8 degrees as the NPD sticker reflects in this thread or is it 6 degrees as found for 428 CJ cars? Motor built designation is a D for Dearborn, thanks to Mr. Bob Gaines.
Trying to figure out font for the D and timing number?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks;
Mike
Mike ,I thought I sent you a picture of a sticker with the D ?
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 29, 2021, 11:22:36 PM
Quote from: shelby1848 on January 29, 2021, 05:57:06 PM
I am also working on having an engine decal made for my '67 GT 500, manual, no a/c and no thermactor. Trying to verify factory timing.
Is it 8 degrees as the NPD sticker reflects in this thread or is it 6 degrees as found for 428 CJ cars? Motor built designation is a D for Dearborn, thanks to Mr. Bob Gaines.
Trying to figure out font for the D and timing number?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks;
Mike
Mike ,I thought I sent you a picture of a sticker with the D ?
I'd like to see that one too.
Yes sir Bob I did receive the picture, however the company I am using was having trouble identifying the font. They also questioned the timing number being correct as they only had made engine tags with the 6 degree timing number for 428 cars and I had no owners manual to refer to. Appreciate your response to square me away on the correct number. If this engine tag turns out well I will have a half dozen or so made and send them to those that might need one.
Thanks Mike
Quote from: shelby1848 on January 30, 2021, 05:59:04 PM
Yes sir Bob I did receive the picture, however the company I am using was having trouble identifying the font. They also questioned the timing number being correct as they only had made engine tags with the 6 degree timing number for 428 cars and I had no owners manual to refer to. Appreciate your response to square me away on the correct number. If this engine tag turns out well I will have a half dozen or so made and send them to those that might need one.
Thanks Mike
Found many times, since fonts go in and out of popularity and use, one has to instead draw the letter to get the original look. Many commercial places are not set up to do this and instead rely on stock or standard fonts in their system. The reason why many reproduction labels look off or in some cases not even close IMHO. Been through this a hundred times at least over the past thirty years and why I ended up doing my own artwork. Are you going for paper based like original or vinyl stickers?
Good luck with your endeavors
Thanks Jeff for the reply. Going with paper with a clear film over the top. My computer skills are poor at best so I'm leaving it to the pros for help in recreating tag. May need to do a couple of
iterations to get it correct.
Thanks
Mike
I would like to offer a different narrative for consideration by those interested.
The base numerical engine id for the 428 engines used in the production 1967 GT 500s is 404 and 405. This is the same numerical id as the 66-67 428 Police motors and this is the link to the Police Interceptor name. To distinguish between 428 engines using the same numerical id but some different components, the GT 500 engines have the suffix A01 added. Thermactor engines require different cylinder heads to accommodate the air injection system, those engines are identified by adding the prefix E (Emissions).
404 A01 for manual transmission, no EECS.
E 404 A01 for manual transmission, with EECS.
405 A01 for automatic transmission, no EECS.
E 405 A01 for automatic transmission, with EECS.
EECS = Engine Emission Control System, aka Thermactor.
Air conditioning systems require no change to the base engine configuration. They are an accessory item the same as alternators or power steering pumps in that the brackets, bolts, pulleys and belts require no change to the engine id or tag.
The DSO/SVO/add-delete sheets, whatever your favorite name is for the multi-page documents that the assembly line used to start the process of converting the Mustang into a Shelby GT 500 confirm these alphanumeric designations as do the metal engine tags.
These were Ford built engines installed on a Ford assembly line and the metal and paper tags were used by the assembly line personnel (including QC) to ensure the correct engine/transmission assemblies were installed in the chassis.
I have some copies of the add-delete sheets and pictures of metal engine id tags to confirm most of this narrative. I have only one piece of corroborating evidence for the claim about the A/C systems.
I have previously posted to this forum a picture of the metal engine id tag of my car 67412F2A01183 and it is most definitely E 405 A01 with a date code of 6M (December 1966) for a January 26, 1967 SJ completion date.
Constructive discussion and evidence either in support of or against this narrative is welcomed.
67_1183 Just to make clear your post. You believe that there were only two base codes (404 & 405) used on paper and aluminum engine ID tags?
And that the coding on each was either 6 or 7 digits long on the paper and aluminum tags?
Would be helpful if you posted the example from your car again in the thread
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 01, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
I would like to offer a different narrative for consideration by those interested.
The base numerical engine id for the 428 engines used in the production 1967 GT 500s is 404 and 405. This is the same numerical id as the 66-67 428 Police motors and this is the link to the Police Interceptor name. To distinguish between 428 engines using the same numerical id but some different components, the GT 500 engines have the suffix A01 added. Thermactor engines require different cylinder heads to accommodate the air injection system, those engines are identified by adding the prefix E (Emissions).
404 A01 for manual transmission, no EECS.
E 404 A01 for manual transmission, with EECS.
405 A01 for automatic transmission, no EECS.
E 405 A01 for automatic transmission, with EECS.
EECS = Engine Emission Control System, aka Thermactor.
Air conditioning systems require no change to the base engine configuration. They are an accessory item the same as alternators or power steering pumps in that the brackets, bolts, pulleys and belts require no change to the engine id or tag.
The DSO/SVO/add-delete sheets, whatever your favorite name is for the multi-page documents that the assembly line used to start the process of converting the Mustang into a Shelby GT 500 confirm these alphanumeric designations as do the metal engine tags.
These were Ford built engines installed on a Ford assembly line and the metal and paper tags were used by the assembly line personnel (including QC) to ensure the correct engine/transmission assemblies were installed in the chassis.
I have some copies of the add-delete sheets and pictures of metal engine id tags to confirm most of this narrative. I have only one piece of corroborating evidence for the claim about the A/C systems.
I have previously posted to this forum a picture of the metal engine id tag of my car 67412F2A01183 and it is most definitely E 405 A01 with a date code of 6M (December 1966) for a January 26, 1967 SJ completion date.
Constructive discussion and evidence either in support of or against this narrative is welcomed.
Can you post a picture or direct me to the portion of the DSO sheet in case it is not marked in the engine box. I have found the sheets not all the same from one set of sheets to the next and the ones I had handy simply had "special" in the engine box . I am assuming that is the area with the different 404 or 405 designation you are seeing but maybe you are seeing them in another spot.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 01, 2021, 10:04:21 PM
Can you post a picture or direct me to the portion of the DSO sheet in case it is not marked in the engine box. I have found the sheets not all the same from one set of sheets to the next and the ones I had handy simply had "special" in the engine box . I am assuming that is the area with the different 404 or 405 designation you are seeing but maybe you are seeing them in another spot.
Pulled a few and I think he's referring to the line item in the following pages where on paper the 428 base engine is substituted for the 390 specified on the front page and typically listed the a section to delete below the "as the 428" list.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-020221010938.jpeg)
I think that the confusion here is that the add/delete sheets are basically a paper exercise to assemble the cars as they wanted them built with the least issues and parts changed.
Like other things on the list parts were not assembled and replaced on the car but just paper. Don't believe these 404 and 405 engines assembles had parts removed and other ones installed. Just allot of work when they could assemble the final engine as planned. Because of this I don't believe these two engine identifications were ever assigned to real engines destined to become 428's installed in Shelby's or that the finished GT500 engines every were identified as 404 or 405 since they were different from the regular 428PI's
The issue pretty easy to confirm as I'm sure we have a fair number of unrestored or original GT500's that can confirm or post a picture of their car's aluminum ID tags. Expect that they will match the cars VIN engine sequence as the one shown below does. Likely have more examples but this one was quick and handy.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-010221214041.jpeg)
Thank you for the responses.
Being a glutton for punishment, I will play along.
J_Speegle,
The partial DSO page you posted I recognize as page 6 of DSO 89-2609 for 121 units of 67410 Shelby VIN cars. I have pictures of the metal engine tags of two of those vehicles. VINs 2800 and 2940. Both are 405 A01.
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 02, 2021, 03:50:37 AM
J_Speegle,
The partial DSO page you posted I recognize as page 6 of DSO 89-2609 for 121 units of 67410 Shelby VIN cars. I have pictures of the metal engine tags of two of those vehicles. VINs 2800 and 2940. Both are 405 A01.
Love to see them as well as other examples.
Playing along - What do you make of the one I posted?
Looking at my collection of pictures I now see the possibility of some being labeled as your referenced. Question for me after looking at the examples engines being labeled each way, how many of one group or the other were there and what production period or periods are connected with each.
For me this is a great and timely discussion BUT I think that documentation in the form of pictures of original engine tags AND engine labels are going to be the only way anyone is going to feel comfortable as to how the engines were built and delivered from the Ford assembly plant.
In speaking privately to others that are interested in this subject, it was emphasized to me that in the case of the'67 GT500, the engine is a "Special Interceptor" not just a "Police Interceptor".
It may be a mistake to presume that the identification of the two are the same?
As far as I know right now, Marti is the only one with the Ford documentation to produce accurate metal engine tags but it is questionable to me about the paper labels. I have seen several versions. There seems to be some disagreement on them? All I hear is "that is not an accurate reproduction" but they offer no accurate alternatives.
What is? No examples have been shown that I'm aware of. Just pictures of where the label was and remains of the adhesive.
Unfortunately it takes Marti MONTHS to do the tags and he is still closed down due to Covid.
I could get some closure here though? Maybe? ;D
Here is mine.
Here is the engine tag off of car #1847, GT500, 4-speed, no a/c, no thermactor.
Good picture! May I ask, how was the tag oriented on the engine? Looks like so far they were all under the coil bracket but which way did it point?
I haven't seen any projecting to the front or evidence that they were bent down anywhere?
Your's is nice and flat.
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 02, 2021, 11:35:14 AM
Good picture! May ask, how was the tag oriented on the engine? Looks like so far they were all under the coil bracket but which way did it point?
I haven't seen any projecting to the front or evidence that they were bent down anywhere?
Your's is nice and flat.
Don't know about any of that, just had the photo saved from the sellers photos of the car.
Quote from: J_Speegle on February 02, 2021, 04:45:14 AM
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 02, 2021, 03:50:37 AM
J_Speegle,
The partial DSO page you posted I recognize as page 6 of DSO 89-2609 for 121 units of 67410 Shelby VIN cars. I have pictures of the metal engine tags of two of those vehicles. VINs 2800 and 2940. Both are 405 A01.
Love to see them as well as other examples.
Since the engine tag for 2940 is still posted on the VCM blog, let's start there so you can assess the originality.
http://blog.virginiaclassicmustang.com/2015/03/just-details1967-shelby-mustang-gt500_6.html
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IzwK65bPKCw/VOYmw8Ym__I/AAAAAAABQYU/ica0yHZ8_kA/s1600/IMG_6079.JPG)
My dads is a 4-speed, no a/c, with thermactor. I don't have the engine tag at my disposal, but here is the Add/delete paperwork with a 404-A01 code. Car 2940 is an automatic and is a 405-A01 code, so does that mean anything? 404 = 4-speed engine trans assembly, 405 = auto assembly?
I have always assumed that the tag seen in the picture was 401 even though I believe this is a Erics automatic car. It may stand for be A01 instead.
This longer weathered paper tag on a 67 could hold a longer engine identification series. There could be two different ways the cars were identified also. Given the Shelby unique engine compared to all other years there may have been a transition from one way to another. The two different engine codes on the two different metal engine tags seen to conflict with each other. That may or may suggest two ways.
I find it interesting that my dads and Doug's Ford paperwork say "428 special interceptor engine 4-speed trans." and are both 404-A01 codes. The Ford paperwork Jeff posted doesn't say which transmission next to the engine designation and is a 405-A01. Jeff, Do you know if it is an automatic car?
Why would it say "4-speed" if all weren't meant to be, thus one engine code, 404-A01, for the 4-speed engine and transmission assembly? I assume there would need to be 2 different engine codes for the flywheel components, especially since the stick bell housings have blue overspray on them.
404 and 405 are 428 PI engine codes, which is what the very basic part of the engine assembly needed to be/started out life as, like member 67-1183 said in his earlier post.
This is a 66-67 427 Fairlane engine id decal with transistor ignition, hence the "T" for that ignition system and no "T" for standard points system. As 67-1183 said, "E" was for thermactor, so is it possible that the correct decal for a 4-speed car with thermactor being "E404 A01"? Very similar layout to the 427's "T362 S01".
What's the difference between the 7 E and 7 C on the tag?
Quote from: csheff on February 03, 2021, 10:43:54 AM
What's the difference between the 7 E and 7 C on the tag?
Month of manufacturing, C= March, E=May. 7 is the year, in this case 1967.
WHERE did the thought that the paper tag engine code should match the model designation in the Shelby VIN tag come from?
The 500 that Vern has is pretty original but I don't see a paper tag on the head to compare to?
At 50 years out, EVEN IF you find a car that is original, IT may be an example of how difficult it will be to find ANY surviving original paper tags? It's difficult to find original cars that haven't been touched.
Considering the data on those spec sheets, AND the designation on what appears to be original metal engine tags, it's a tough argument to disagree that the paper and metal information is different? Also as to what information should be on both as well as the configuration on them?
I'd encourage anyone to come forward with any documentation they may have. The purpose isn't to be the one who is right, it is to find the right information.
This discussion isn't dead. If anything it's just beginning.
I've got pics from 35 years ago that might even have glimpses of the tags but first problem is where the heck I filed them. Some are prints. Some are slides. Yikes. This may take some time?
Quote from: 430dragpack on February 02, 2021, 01:22:18 PM
I find it interesting that my dads and Doug's Ford paperwork say "428 special interceptor engine 4-speed trans." and are both 404-A01 codes. The Ford paperwork Jeff posted doesn't say which transmission next to the engine designation and is a 405-A01. Jeff, Do you know if it is an automatic car?
Why would it say "4-speed" if all weren't meant to be, thus one engine code, 404-A01, for the 4-speed engine and transmission assembly? I assume there would need to be 2 different engine codes for the flywheel components, especially since the stick bell housings have blue overspray on them.
404 and 405 are 428 PI engine codes, which is what the very basic part of the engine assembly needed to be/started out life as, like member 67-1183 said in his earlier post.
This is a 66-67 427 Fairlane engine id decal with transistor ignition, hence the "T" for that ignition system and no "T" for standard points system. As 67-1183 said, "E" was for thermactor, so is it possible that the correct decal for a 4-speed car with thermactor being "E404 A01"? Very similar layout to the 427's "T362 S01".
Are you SURE that tag is original and not someone else's interpretation of what the tag should be? I don't see the jagged edges on the ends?
There is a lot of misinformation on the web even if it is well intended.
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 03, 2021, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: 430dragpack on February 02, 2021, 01:22:18 PM
I find it interesting that my dads and Doug's Ford paperwork say "428 special interceptor engine 4-speed trans." and are both 404-A01 codes. The Ford paperwork Jeff posted doesn't say which transmission next to the engine designation and is a 405-A01. Jeff, Do you know if it is an automatic car?
Why would it say "4-speed" if all weren't meant to be, thus one engine code, 404-A01, for the 4-speed engine and transmission assembly? I assume there would need to be 2 different engine codes for the flywheel components, especially since the stick bell housings have blue overspray on them.
404 and 405 are 428 PI engine codes, which is what the very basic part of the engine assembly needed to be/started out life as, like member 67-1183 said in his earlier post.
This is a 66-67 427 Fairlane engine id decal with transistor ignition, hence the "T" for that ignition system and no "T" for standard points system. As 67-1183 said, "E" was for thermactor, so is it possible that the correct decal for a 4-speed car with thermactor being "E404 A01"? Very similar layout to the 427's "T362 S01".
Are you SURE that tag is original and not someone else's interpretation of what the tag should be? I don't see the jagged edges on the ends?
There is a lot of misinformation on the web even if it is well intended.
It's not an original, an original was used to make it. Jagged edges could/should be added before being applied. I agree about tons of misinformation.
Original $100 bills are usually used to model counterfeits after but Franklin shouldn't be winking.
Little details tend to get changed.
The original is the document. The "copy" isn't.
This IS part of the issue I/"we" are having.
Bob's thought about there possibly being several versions originally has to be seriously considered?
It's more a problem for him since this discussion is more likely to have a flurry of '67 GT500's showing up in Concourse and showing tape labels?
He better not blaime me. 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 03, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
Original $100 bills are usually used to model counterfeits after but Franklin shouldn't be winking.
Little details tend to get changed.
The original is the document. The "copy" isn't.
This IS part of the issue I/"we" are having.
Bob's thought about there possibly being several versions originally has to be seriously considered?
It's more a problem for him since this discussion is more likely to have a flurry of '67 GT500's showing up in Concourse and showing tape labels?
He better not blaime me. 8)
Too late.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 03, 2021, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 03, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
Original $100 bills are usually used to model counterfeits after but Franklin shouldn't be winking.
Little details tend to get changed.
The original is the document. The "copy" isn't.
This IS part of the issue I/"we" are having.
Bob's thought about there possibly being several versions originally has to be seriously considered?
It's more a problem for him since this discussion is more likely to have a flurry of '67 GT500's showing up in Concourse and showing tape labels?
He better not blaime me. 8)
Too late.
THERE IT IS! I KNEW IT! ;D
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 03, 2021, 11:58:05 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 03, 2021, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 03, 2021, 11:50:31 AM
Original $100 bills are usually used to model counterfeits after but Franklin shouldn't be winking.
Little details tend to get changed.
The original is the document. The "copy" isn't.
This IS part of the issue I/"we" are having.
Bob's thought about there possibly being several versions originally has to be seriously considered?
It's more a problem for him since this discussion is more likely to have a flurry of '67 GT500's showing up in Concourse and showing tape labels?
He better not blaime me. 8)
Too late.
THERE IT IS! I KNEW IT!
Play nice , Fellas!! ;D. It's kinda like "How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie roll center of a Tootsie pop??...The world may never know!!"
Quote from: J_Speegle on February 02, 2021, 01:12:13 AM
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/6-020221010938.jpeg)
I think that the confusion here is that the add/delete sheets are basically a paper exercise to assemble the cars as they wanted them built with the least issues and parts changed.
Like other things on the list parts were not assembled and replaced on the car but just paper. Don't believe these 404 and 405 engines assembles had parts removed and other ones installed. Just allot of work when they could assemble the final engine as planned. Because of this I don't believe these two engine identifications were ever assigned to real engines destined to become 428's installed in Shelby's or that the finished GT500 engines every were identified as 404 or 405 since they were different from the regular 428PI's
J_Speegle,
I do not consider the DSO/SVO/add-delete sheets as a "paper exercise". They are the equivalent of an Engineering Change Order (ECO) or Engineering Change Notice (ECN) and are a necessary and sufficient document to initiate a deviation from standard process on the assembly line.
The process was started by entering into the Ford build system S into the engine code in the Vehicle Order Image when initiating the order for the vehicles that would become the GT 500. The Marti reports show that what would become the GT 500 was entered into the build process as a 390 Mustang.
In the case of DSO 84-2566 of which #1183 is one of those 32 units, the delete (implying do not install) is E 319 A, the emissions version of the 390 engine for automatic transmissions.
As stated
in previously, constructive discussion and evidence either in support of or against this narrative is welcomed.
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 03, 2021, 03:36:15 PM
J_Speegle,
I do not consider the DSO/SVO/add-delete sheets as a "paper exercise". They are the equivalent of an Engineering Change Order (ECO) or Engineering Change Notice (ECN) and are a necessary and sufficient document to initiate a deviation from standard process on the assembly line.
Guess like many things different opinions are held by many.
Earlier I had asked about your thoughts on the engine ID tag I posted. Reply #38
On other subjects and pictures posted I had also seen #100 picture of the engine ID tag but since a regular production vehicle thought I might not be appropriate to use for the discussion.
The picture in Reply #48 that Bob posted I believe is one of mine I shared with him (file name matches) and its not from a Shelby but from another 67 Fe California built example. Not a Mustang or Cougar example as another shot of the engine shows a full frame rail and part of the firewall.
Looking through my collection of engine ID tags from 67 it appears that they used a different ID pattern than other engine plants at least in 67 and 68. Never enough examples but I'll try and get them up and posted for the discussion. Hopefully without muddying the waters :) Just be patient plenty of other things going on at the moment
Quote from: J_Speegle on February 03, 2021, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 03, 2021, 03:36:15 PM
J_Speegle,
I do not consider the DSO/SVO/add-delete sheets as a "paper exercise". They are the equivalent of an Engineering Change Order (ECO) or Engineering Change Notice (ECN) and are a necessary and sufficient document to initiate a deviation from standard process on the assembly line.
Guess like many things different opinions are held by many.
Earlier I had asked about your thoughts on the engine ID tag I posted. Reply #38
On other subjects and pictures posted I had also seen #100 picture of the engine ID tag but since a regular production vehicle thought I might not be appropriate to use for the discussion.
The picture in Reply #48 that Bob posted I believe is one of mine I shared with him (file name matches) and its not from a Shelby but from another 67 Fe California built example. Not a Mustang or Cougar example as another shot of the engine shows a full frame rail and part of the firewall.
Looking through my collection of engine ID tags from 67 it appears that they used a different ID pattern than other engine plants at least in 67 and 68. Never enough examples but I'll try and get them up and posted for the discussion. Hopefully without muddying the waters :) Just be patient plenty of other things going on at the moment
Jeff, the picture I posted of the engine block with the long sticker paper reminent was to show the possibility of sticker with a longer sequence of numbers and letters compared to the short series on the 3 digit repro sticker. It doesn't really matter if it is from a Shelby or not just that the longer sticker existed on a 67 FE block. The repro engine id sticker that 430dragpack posted shows how the longer engine Id sequence might look . That sticker matched the longer style of sticker paper left on the junk yard engine picture. At least in theory it could exist.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 04, 2021, 12:04:46 AM
Jeff, the picture I posted of the engine block with the long sticker paper reminent was to show the possibility of sticker with a longer sequence of numbers and letters compared to the short series on the 3 digit repro sticker. It doesn't really matter if it is from a Shelby or not just that the longer sticker existed on a 67 FE block. The repro engine id sticker that 430dragpack posted shows how the longer engine Id sequence might look . That sticker matched the longer style of sticker paper left on the junk yard engine picture.......................
Just clarifying the source of the sticker
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 04, 2021, 12:04:46 AM
At least in theory it could exist.
keep that thought. have something more to share :)
I hate to throw grenades but it looks like you guys simply don't know what was original to 67 GT500's? if so you should state that and stop speculating that it could be this or that or even something else unique that no one or few have ever seen before.
The ONLY way to document anything now is to post pictures of ORIGINAL '67 GT500 labels and tags not 390 S codes.
The label of the R Fairlane is interesting but the suggestion here is that there isn't as much standardization of these labels and engine tags as some previously thought?
Simply put, there are just too many people making reproductions which may or may not be accurate. If it doesn't get corrected now, the fantasy is going to get accepted as fact along with the flying monkeys.
Is there something in the water in this country that makes everyone delusional? Lets not bring that here to this forum also?
By some chance do Terry Kristofac's engine pics show the paper label? What about the Hot Rod magazine article with the SHELBY valve covers?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 04, 2021, 11:52:38 AM
By some chance do Terry Kristofac's engine pics show the paper label? What about the Hot Rod magazine article with the SHELBY valve covers?
Nope, nothing legible. That would be too easy.
This is like looking for the Brasher Dabloon? There's only one of 'em and no one knows where it is?
I think that I have created an inclination of people to produce a rash of inaccurate "reproductions" to come? It's just going to confuse matters worse.
I'm sorry. :(
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 02, 2021, 01:01:43 PM
I have always assumed that the tag seen in the picture was 401 even though I believe this is a Erics automatic car. It may stand for be A01 instead.
Hello Bob and Everyone,
Yes, the tag on 0100 actually had "A 01" printed on it. I have attached another photo of 0100's engine bay that was taken by Sports Car Graphic. I have also attached a zoomed in portion of the engine bay photo taken by Car and Driver. The "A 01" is clearly visible in the two photos. If anyone ends up getting some of these tags made up, I would be interested in having one for 0100 which was: Automatic trans with no EECS.
Thanks,
Eric
The problem is that they were only meant for internal Ford use and not meant to last any longer then it took to install them in the chassis.It didn't take long with the engine heat cycles and any moisture humidity etc.it was exposed to for the paper to start degrading . I have only seen a few half way legible examples from any year FE let alone 67 Shelby. The picture on Erics #0100 car is the clearest 67 Shelby specific one I can remember seeing and it is only a partial. Given the stickers location on the block it doesn't show up well from most angles in typical engine photo shots.
Quote from: 67411F--0100-ENG. on February 04, 2021, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 02, 2021, 01:01:43 PM
I have always assumed that the tag seen in the picture was 401 even though I believe this is a Erics automatic car. It may stand for be A01 instead.
Hello Bob and Everyone,
Yes, the tag on 0100 actually had "A 01" printed on it. I have attached another photo of 0100's engine bay that was taken by Sports Car Graphic. The "A" is clearly visible. If anyone ends up getting some of these tags made up, I would be interested in having one for 0100 which was: Automatic trans with no EECS.
Thanks,
Eric
Eric,thanks for the smoking gun photo for the longer style engine sequence.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 04, 2021, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: 67411F--0100-ENG. on February 04, 2021, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 02, 2021, 01:01:43 PM
I have always assumed that the tag seen in the picture was 401 even though I believe this is a Erics automatic car. It may stand for be A01 instead.
Hello Bob and Everyone,
Yes, the tag on 0100 actually had "A 01" printed on it. I have attached another photo of 0100's engine bay that was taken by Sports Car Graphic. The "A" is clearly visible. If anyone ends up getting some of these tags made up, I would be interested in having one for 0100 which was: Automatic trans with no EECS.
Thanks,
Eric
Eric, thanks for the smoking gun photo for the longer style engine sequence.
Hello Bob,
No problem, glad to try and help out with this issue. I went through all of my photos of 0100, and those two photos are the only ones that show a portion of the engine tag/sticker.
Thanks,
Eric
Wasn't that one a 390? Should it have a 390 code or a 428 code?
Here's my first attempt but I think the info is wrong on it?
What's with this place flipping around the pictures? This one posted upside down.
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 04, 2021, 07:08:52 AM
The ONLY way to document anything now is to post pictures of ORIGINAL '67 GT500 labels and tags not 390 S codes.
Disagree that engine plant practices have no value in this discussion. Since we have limited resources other labels made for the same time period as well as those nearby and made likely by the same company can provide clues and details that can be considered and discussed. Ignoring would be like trying to find a vaccine without considering what had worked and not worked with similar viruses as an example.
We just need to identify and list with the picture the source of the example for the obvious reasons
Quote from: J_Speegle on February 04, 2021, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 04, 2021, 07:08:52 AM
The ONLY way to document anything now is to post pictures of ORIGINAL '67 GT500 labels and tags not 390 S codes.
Disagree that engine plant practices have no value in this discussion. Since we have limited resources other labels made for the same time period as well as those nearby and made likely by the same company can provide clues and details that can be considered and discussed. Ignoring would be like trying to find a vaccine without considering what had worked and not worked with similar viruses as an example.
We just need to identify and list with the picture the source of the example for the obvious reasons
Who said that they didn't matter? So far there is a partial of one of -00100? Got another? ;D
For that matter, do you have any 390's?
These things are as rare as chicken lips?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 04, 2021, 03:20:34 PM
Wasn't that one a 390? Should it have a 390 code or a 428 code?
Here's my first attempt but I think the info is wrong on it?
What's with this place flipping around the pictures? This one posted upside down.
Here is your image Rotated 180,
Also, maybe we can consider calling the paper adhesive tape strips "Labels" and the stamped metal plates "Tags" to help with understand which is being referred too?
Quote from: JD on February 04, 2021, 04:47:55 PM
Here is your image Rotated 180,
Also, maybe we can consider calling the paper adhesive tape strips "Labels" and the stamped metal plates "Tags" to help with understand which is being referred too?
Agreed - been trying to do that for my own purposes and reduce confusion.
Great photos - thank you.
Quote from: 67411F--0100-ENG. on February 04, 2021, 01:15:25 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 02, 2021, 01:01:43 PM
I have always assumed that the tag seen in the picture was 401 even though I believe this is a Erics automatic car. It may stand for be A01 instead.
Hello Bob and Everyone,
Yes, the tag on 0100 actually had "A 01" printed on it. I have attached another photo of 0100's engine bay that was taken by Sports Car Graphic. I have also attached a zoomed in portion of the engine bay photo taken by Car and Driver. The "A 01" is clearly visible in the two photos. If anyone ends up getting some of these tags made up, I would be interested in having one for 0100 which was: Automatic trans with no EECS.
Thanks,
Eric
Since the metal tags for 2490 2940 and 1847 (representing "late" and "mid") have been posted to this thread, I will add a couple "early" cars.
67400F7A00245 12/12/1966 SJ 404 A01
67410F4A00329 12/21/1966 SJ 405 A01
I'm wonder now if the label looks exactly like the bottom line on these tags?
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 04, 2021, 08:56:17 PM
Since the metal tags for 2490 2940 and 1847 (representing "late" and "mid") have been posted to this thread, I will add a couple "early" cars.
67400F7A00245 12/12/1966 SJ 404 A01
67410F4A00329 12/21/1966 SJ 405 A01
Hello Everyone,
So, on the tag for car 0329, what does the "3" at the end of the top line indicate?
Thanks,
Eric
Quote from: 67411F--0100-ENG. on February 05, 2021, 02:43:28 PM
So, on the tag for car 0329, what does the "3" at the end of the top line indicate?
Thanks, Eric
Believe that is there to identify change level of the particular engine.
Adding more to the discussion and information ran across the following
Kevin Marti included in his Tagbook that he had Ford documents showing the following. The date of the information is not available at this time.
428 4V HP with 4 speed 404 A01 Shelby GT-500
428 4V HP with automatic 405 A01 Shelby GT-500
Small detail that I noticed that the codes are written with no dash between the first and second set of characters where the GT-350 ones he lists does. Hmm
Still need to post some more, maybe tomorrow
Wonder if part of the confusion is that they changed things some where during production. It is 1967 production remember ::)
Might explain the two different codes on the engine tag I posted and the others
The font on the label appears to be Microgamma Condensed.
...and am I seeing an unpainted thermostat housing on -00100? You could make a case that the front of the engine and waterpump aren't painted as well. Geese.
This is getting as bad as the Warren Commision's investigating of the Kennedy assassination.
Anyone have pictures of the gunman with the rifle in the catch basin?
It must be true that you don't take the brown sugar cube out of the refrigerator? If you do,just take only one. ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 06, 2021, 08:48:30 AM
The font on the label appears to be Microgamma Condensed.
...and am I seeing an unpainted thermostat housing on -00100? You could make a case that the front of the engine and waterpump aren't painted as well. Geese.
This is getting as bad as the Warren Commision's investigating of the Kennedy assassination.
Anyone have pictures of the gunman with the rifle in the catch basin?
It must be true that you don't take the brown sugar cube out of the refrigerator? If you do,just take only one. ;)
B+W can be tricky . If it the thermostat housing were unpainted then the unpainted S7 finish shiny bolts would appear a different shade and not the same as in the photo. I don't think a very good case for unpainted.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 06, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 06, 2021, 08:48:30 AM
The font on the label appears to be Microgamma Condensed.
...and am I seeing an unpainted thermostat housing on -00100? You could make a case that the front of the engine and waterpump aren't painted as well. Geese.
This is getting as bad as the Warren Commision's investigating of the Kennedy assassination.
Anyone have pictures of the gunman with the rifle in the catch basin?
It must be true that you don't take the brown sugar cube out of the refrigerator? If you do,just take only one. ;)
B+W can be tricky . If it the thermostat housing were unpainted then the unpainted S7 finish shiny bolts would appear a different shade and not the same as in the photo. I don't think a very good case for unpainted.
OK BUT the finish on the thermostat housing appears to match that of the intake manifold?
I see a difference between the thermostat housing and the waterpump. The paint tends to have the same texture no matter where they sprayed it.
I'm ok with the thermostat housing being painted, it just seemed so obvious to me in that picture that it wasn't painted.
There is no suggestion of overspray on the intake at the intersection of the two. Was the mask that tight? I have overspray leakage on the intake at about 5 o'clock. Not much but definitely there.
just playing around, so if these were on a 1 inch tall roll they might look something like this??
(Will post on the SB thread of the similar topic too)
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 06, 2021, 09:32:56 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 06, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 06, 2021, 08:48:30 AM
The font on the label appears to be Microgamma Condensed.
...and am I seeing an unpainted thermostat housing on -00100? You could make a case that the front of the engine and waterpump aren't painted as well. Geese.
This is getting as bad as the Warren Commision's investigating of the Kennedy assassination.
Anyone have pictures of the gunman with the rifle in the catch basin?
It must be true that you don't take the brown sugar cube out of the refrigerator? If you do,just take only one. ;)
B+W can be tricky . If it the thermostat housing were unpainted then the unpainted S7 finish shiny bolts would appear a different shade and not the same as in the photo. I don't think a very good case for unpainted.
OK BUT the finish on the thermostat housing appears to match that of the intake manifold?
I see a difference between the thermostat housing and the waterpump. The paint tends to have the same texture no matter where they sprayed it.
I'm ok with the thermostat housing being painted, it just seemed so obvious to me in that picture that it wasn't painted.
There is no suggestion of overspray on the intake at the intersection of the two. Was the mask that tight? I have overspray leakage on the intake at about 5 o'clock. Not much but definitely there.
Again tricky. To my eye I see the paint fading near the intake . In most cases on later cars there was a taped line above the thermostat housing on the intake with paint on the forward edge of the intake . Keep in mind this is the first serialized GT500 and was most likely one of the very first GT500 engines painted and so it may vary from later production once they got the hang of doing it
Quote from: JD on February 06, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
just playing around, so if these were on a 1 inch tall roll they might look something like this??
(Will post on the SB thread of the similar topic too)
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=post;msg=114320;topic=13774.0
On the smallblock the "01" seems to be eliminated.
Quote from: JD on February 06, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
just playing around, so if these were on a 1 inch tall roll they might look something like this??
(Will post on the SB thread of the similar topic too)
I'll take a couple 404 decals when someone gets them made. Is there any decision on a possible different code for a thermactor engines by having the "E" prefix on the decal? Or simply just not enough evidence to say it "probably" was that way, based on other Ford engine ID numbers.
Chris
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 06, 2021, 10:02:03 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 06, 2021, 09:32:56 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 06, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 06, 2021, 08:48:30 AM
The font on the label appears to be Microgamma Condensed.
...and am I seeing an unpainted thermostat housing on -00100? You could make a case that the front of the engine and waterpump aren't painted as well. Geese.
This is getting as bad as the Warren Commision's investigating of the Kennedy assassination.
Anyone have pictures of the gunman with the rifle in the catch basin?
It must be true that you don't take the brown sugar cube out of the refrigerator? If you do,just take only one. ;)
B+W can be tricky . If it the thermostat housing were unpainted then the unpainted S7 finish shiny bolts would appear a different shade and not the same as in the photo. I don't think a very good case for unpainted.
OK BUT the finish on the thermostat housing appears to match that of the intake manifold?
I see a difference between the thermostat housing and the waterpump. The paint tends to have the same texture no matter where they sprayed it.
I'm ok with the thermostat housing being painted, it just seemed so obvious to me in that picture that it wasn't painted.
There is no suggestion of overspray on the intake at the intersection of the two. Was the mask that tight? I have overspray leakage on the intake at about 5 o'clock. Not much but definitely there.
Again tricky. To my eye I see the paint fading near the intake . In most cases on later cars there was a taped line above the thermostat housing on the intake with paint on the forward edge of the intake . Keep in mind this is the first serialized GT500 and was most likely one of the very first GT500 engines painted and so it may vary from later production once they got the hang of doing it
This is a little off topic and a new thread should be started if more in depth is needed . I am not sure if you have his picture but this vintage intake picture shows the typical masking line for the intake. This one is especially messy with blow outs. There was a range ,some less messy and some most likely worse.
Quote from: 430dragpack on February 07, 2021, 12:52:41 PM
Quote from: JD on February 06, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
just playing around, so if these were on a 1 inch tall roll they might look something like this??
(Will post on the SB thread of the similar topic too)
I'll take a couple 404 decals when someone gets them made. Is there any decision on a possible different code for a thermactor engines by having the "E" prefix on the decal? Or simply just not enough evidence to say it "probably" was that way, based on other Ford engine ID numbers.
Chris
I am curious where the 66-67 427 Fairlane engine id decal with transistor ignition label in reply 49 came from and who made it ? I assume it is a reproduction given it is seperate from a engine and its pristine condition.
Agreed. Start another thread. I like the idea that the search function SHOULD act like an encyclopedia of information here on such topics but that seems to be just false hope?
I decided to let my manifold be the determining factor. Just a trace of overspray here and there. Never been blasted. It's apparently an exception rather then the rule but I don't have the heart to over do it like that one.
Does anyone have archival access or higher resolution versions of these pictures with FE engine paper labels?
D, maybe. Initial engine timing info, hard to see.
OOO! I see a D but why do they need to put the plant ID on the label? Or the timing?
The engine is already built to a certain spec. They just need to know which is the right one to install into the engine.
The other thing is we have already seen a difference in label configuration with different engines.
That label apparently maybe is correct original to the 427, the 390 but we still can't confirm if it's done the same way with the 67 Shelby 428's?
I think that we need at least one complete original '67 GT500 label to compare to ? There has to be at least one that has survived?
This thread has went stale.
Let's talk about this metal tag from the RK Motors listing for 67400F2A01983.
A 1966 model year 410 numerical id 428 engine dated October 1965.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzM2WDExMDQ=/z/JscAAOSw9j5gQDj7/$_57.JPG?set_id=2)
Link to listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Ford-Shelby-Mustang-GT500/224373086574?hash=item343dad996e:g:daIAAOSw691gQDi1&vxp=mtr
Quote from: 67_1183 on March 06, 2021, 05:30:27 PM
This thread has went stale.
Let's talk about this metal tag from the RK Motors listing for 67400F2A01983.
A 1966 model year 410 numerical id 428 engine dated October 1965.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzM2WDExMDQ=/z/JscAAOSw9j5gQDj7/$_57.JPG?set_id=2)
Link to listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Ford-Shelby-Mustang-GT500/224373086574?hash=item343dad996e:g:daIAAOSw691gQDi1&vxp=mtr
Nothing really to discuss, clearly not the correct metal engine ID tag for a 1967 GT 500, but rather a 1966 Galaxie more than likely.
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 04, 2021, 08:56:17 PM
Since the metal tags for 2490 2940 and 1847 (representing "late" and "mid") have been posted to this thread, I will add a couple "early" cars.
67400F7A00245 12/12/1966 SJ 404 A01
67410F4A00329 12/21/1966 SJ 405 A01
A better picture of 245's metal engine tag is currently on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Ford-Mustang/143988814824?hash=item218666f3e8:g:YroAAOSw9vdgUWeY&vxp=mtr
(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/kRwAAOSwsVtgUWfP/$_57.JPG?set_id=2)
Quote from: 67_1183 on February 01, 2021, 09:13:50 PM
404 A01 for manual transmission, no EECS.
E 404 A01 for manual transmission, with EECS.
405 A01 for automatic transmission, no EECS.
E 405 A01 for automatic transmission, with EECS.
EECS = Engine Emission Control System, aka Thermactor.
The attached picture of the E 404 A01 engine tag was posted on the Shelby Research Group Facebook page by member Randy Atha.
QuoteThis came off my 67 Gt 500 had years ago 428 two fours any info thanks