Blue Hertz at Mecum Indy this weekend

[deathsled]

https://www.mecum.com/lots/1169816/1966-shelby-gt350h-fastback/

[98SVT - was 06GT]

My second favorite Hertz color. First is a tie between Red/Gold and Green/Gold
Boy - did I sell too soon.

[deathsled]

The blue really pops.  I wonder if the stripes were added on after Hertz.  I seem to recall that the blue ones got the stripes whereas the red ones did not.

[Vernon Estes]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Knowing that, you can use your imagination on the rest of it... you won't be far off.

[J_Speegle]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Now that's memorable 

[tesgt350]

There are a White 66 and a Black 66 Hertz there too.

[SFM5S159]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Knowing that, you can use your imagination on the rest of it... you won't be far off.

One could argue it's numbers matching and not be wrong!   

[chawkpilot]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Knowing that, you can use your imagination on the rest of it... you won't be far off.

Oh goodness...

[deathsled]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Now that's memorable 

My question is whether that Shelby number is in addition to the normally stamped Ford VIN or is the Ford VIN completely missing on that block. My engine also has the sfm number stamped on another part of the block from a prior owner prior to the gentleman I bought the car from, but the Ford VIN remains intact on the block in its customary location and matches the Ford VINs on the body of the car. Disappearing original hipo engines on the Hertz cars were apparently a real thing. Some wanted additional assurance perhaps by stamping the Shelby VIN on the block. I can assure you that the prior owner can competently testify that my block is original to my car despite having the extra number on the block, having owned the car before me all the way back to the early 70s. The Ford VIN is on the block. That creates a rebuttable presumption this is the original block unless overcome by other competent and admissible evidence. Speculation does not count.

[deathsled]

Here they are on mine.

[shelbydoug]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Now that's memorable 

My question is whether that Shelby number is in addition to the normally stamped Ford VIN or is the Ford VIN completely missing on that block. My engine also has the sfm number stamped on another part of the block from a prior owner prior to the gentleman I bought the car from, but the Ford VIN remains intact on the block in its customary location and matches the Ford VINs on the body of the car. Disappearing original hipo engines on the Hertz cars were apparently a real thing. Some wanted additional assurance perhaps by stamping the Shelby VIN on the block. I can assure you that the prior owner can competently testify that my block is original to my car despite having the extra number on the block, having owned the car before me all the way back to the early 70s. The Ford VIN is on the block. That creates a rebuttable presumption this is the original block unless overcome by other competent and admissible evidence. Speculation does not count.

At some point in the late '70s or early '80s, there were those recommending stamping ID numbers into significant components for theft identification reasons.

How many people did that is unknown.

Having the Shelby VIN stamped into the block is of debatable value or value loss but not necessarily a yellow caution flag.


Presuming that it was done for this purpose, it does raise question as to how someone would attempt to identify the parts since there would be no record of the Ford VIN anywhere.
Somewhat of a conundrum?

Considering the amount of labor necessary to switch out the engine and the limited amount of gain by doing so, I wouldn't think that was very common although a few have "confessed" to having done so.

[Bob Gaines]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Now that's memorable 

My question is whether that Shelby number is in addition to the normally stamped Ford VIN or is the Ford VIN completely missing on that block. My engine also has the sfm number stamped on another part of the block from a prior owner prior to the gentleman I bought the car from, but the Ford VIN remains intact on the block in its customary location and matches the Ford VINs on the body of the car. Disappearing original hipo engines on the Hertz cars were apparently a real thing. Some wanted additional assurance perhaps by stamping the Shelby VIN on the block. I can assure you that the prior owner can competently testify that my block is original to my car despite having the extra number on the block, having owned the car before me all the way back to the early 70s. The Ford VIN is on the block. That creates a rebuttable presumption this is the original block unless overcome by other competent and admissible evidence. Speculation does not count.

From the pictures that were sent to me it appears that the Shelby VIN was stamped where no typical San Jose Ford VIN existed. I think that in this context of stamping the Shelby VIN in the same place where the Ford VIN would be shows a possible indication of lapses in knowledge as it relates to other restoration efforts that have been done to the car over the years. This breach of typical knowledge sends up a red flag that caution should be practiced in evaluating the car for its originality and integrity. At least that is the way many of my peers and myself perceive the issue.

[deathsled]

Looked this one over today... the block is stamped with the car's serial number....

... it's Shelby serial number 

Now that's memorable 

My question is whether that Shelby number is in addition to the normally stamped Ford VIN or is the Ford VIN completely missing on that block. My engine also has the sfm number stamped on another part of the block from a prior owner prior to the gentleman I bought the car from, but the Ford VIN remains intact on the block in its customary location and matches the Ford VINs on the body of the car. Disappearing original hipo engines on the Hertz cars were apparently a real thing. Some wanted additional assurance perhaps by stamping the Shelby VIN on the block. I can assure you that the prior owner can competently testify that my block is original to my car despite having the extra number on the block, having owned the car before me all the way back to the early 70s. The Ford VIN is on the block. That creates a rebuttable presumption this is the original block unless overcome by other competent and admissible evidence. Speculation does not count.

From the pictures that were sent to me it appears that the Shelby VIN was stamped where no typical San Jose Ford VIN existed. I think that in this context of stamping the Shelby VIN in the same place where the Ford VIN would be shows a possible indication of lapses in knowledge as it relates to other restoration efforts that have been done to the car over the years. This breach of typical knowledge sends up a red flag that caution should be practiced in evaluating the car for its originality and integrity. At least that is the way many of my peers and myself perceive the issue.

In that context I can see why that would be a problem ethically and possibly legally (not that the two are mutually exclusive).

[shelbymann1970]

I'm not sure it would be illegal to stamp a vin on a block. Shelbys were never titled by a vin on the block. Also say someone found a correct block and stamped it and now called the car numbers matching and not say " guarantied original engine "  is that illegal? I'd say not. Unethical? Yes. Now Chevies prior to 1972 if someone built a very rare car where you cannot tell what it is because of the lack of engine vin and sold it as said rare car to me that would be fraud but it might be hard to prove? 

[deathsled]

I'm not sure it would be illegal to stamp a vin on a block. Shelbys were never titled by a vin on the block. Also say someone found a correct block and stamped it and now called the car numbers matching and not say " guarantied original engine "  is that illegal? I'd say not. Unethical? Yes. Now Chevies prior to 1972 if someone built a very rare car where you cannot tell what it is because of the lack of engine vin and sold it as said rare car to me that would be fraud but it might be hard to prove? 

You opened up an interesting question. Here is a quick overview that I am just learning. I only handle state cases but this Federal statute interests me to dive further. As you see, there are exceptions which would exculpate a restorer.

18 U.S.C. § 511 is the federal law that makes it a felony to knowingly remove, obliterate, tamper with, or alter a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) on a road motor vehicle or motor vehicle part.The OffenseUnder this statute, it is a crime to knowingly:Remove, alter, or tamper with an identification number.Alter or remove a theft-prevention decal (affixed under the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act) with the intent to further the theft of a vehicle.PenaltiesViolations of this statute are considered felonies. Offenders face fines, up to 5 years in federal prison, or both.Lawful ExceptionsThe law recognizes that legitimate repairs or recycling operations may require interacting with identification numbers. The statute explicitly exempts the following individuals from prosecution, unless they know the vehicle or part is stolen:Scrap processors and demolishers who are in compliance with applicable state laws.Repair professionals where the alteration or removal is reasonably necessary for lawful repairs.Persons replacing/restoring numbers in accordance with state laws (e.g., restoring a classic car).