Ok Ok Time To Stir The Pot Just A Little.... Carpeted Package Tray....1965 GT350

[Vernon Estes]

The factory did stripe the green 66 GT350 convertible with a gold rocker stripe... so the possability of them playing with gold stripes on a black 67 isnt the nuttiest thing I've heard this week.

... but id suggest starting a new, interesting thread about that possability so we can continue to populate this forum with more of the "good ole days" information discovery and discussion that many people have seemed to be yearning for.... while also keeping the focus of this thread on obscure, difficult to document carpeting on 65 package trays 

John- any chance you remember the # of the 65 you referenced?

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Fun thread. With the recent passing of "The Camfather" at 104 we can't help but look back at the history of our hobby and those who were in business to make it happen. https://ahrf.com/ed-iskenderian/
Ray Brown: https://ahrf.com/ray-brown/
Tony Nancy: https://ahrf.com/tony-nancy/
This is a shot of Tony Nancy doing a burnout on Hollywood Blvd. Hamburger Hamlet was across from Grauman's Chinese which was a few doors east of Petersen's first auto museum. https://www.hotrod.com/news/hrdp-0709-top-fuel-burnout-hollywood-blvd Mike Shoen loaned them one of his Daytona Coupes for display and nearby the Lone Star sat outside and unloved at Charlie Agapiou's Rolls Royce shop. On a few occasions Jim Wallace would take the Coupe from the museum and bring it to the COCOA meeting in Orange County - fun times.
You've heard CS talk about coming to SoCal because that is where the hot rodders were that could get things built. It was a small tight knit community that not only included Ray Brown and Phil Remington but Larry Shinoda who went on to develop Pete Brocks 1950s sketch into the 63 Stingray. He also did the Boss 302. That is him with his lakes roadster the Chopsticks Special. He won his class at the first NHRA Nationals in 1955. Speaking of Pete Brock his design talents showed up in high school when his chopped/channeled Caddie powered "El Mirage" won the Oakland Roadster show in 1953. He liked the white and blue stripe theme that Briggs Cunningham had used on his LeMans effort and copied them on his car. Now you know where the GT350 stripes came from. Six degrees of separation in action.

[Harris Speedster]

Vern,
I made a video of the neat things on the original paint car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to Utah and bought it, I was John from Utah then.
He may have bought it for one of his customers.
Jim had a copy of the video.
Cars CSX serial number in yellow crayon on the frame rail, had many neat markings, even in the door jams !
Many of my records were stolen by my ex 25 years ago, had seven 65's, hard to remember all !
John

[Harris Speedster]

Fun thread. With the recent passing of "The Camfather" at 104 we can't help but look back at the history of our hobby and those who were in business to make it happen. https://ahrf.com/ed-iskenderian/
Ray Brown: https://ahrf.com/ray-brown/
Tony Nancy: https://ahrf.com/tony-nancy/
This is a shot of Tony Nancy doing a burnout on Hollywood Blvd. Hamburger Hamlet was across from Grauman's Chinese which was a few doors east of Petersen's first auto museum. https://www.hotrod.com/news/hrdp-0709-top-fuel-burnout-hollywood-blvd Mike Shoen loaned them one of his Daytona Coupes for display and nearby the Lone Star sat outside and unloved at Charlie Agapiou's Rolls Royce shop. On a few occasions Jim Wallace would take the Coupe from the museum and bring it to the COCOA meeting in Orange County - fun times.
You've heard CS talk about coming to SoCal because that is where the hot rodders were that could get things built. It was a small tight knit community that not only included Ray Brown and Phil Remington but Larry Shinoda who went on to develop Pete Brocks 1950s sketch into the 63 Stingray. He also did the Boss 302. That is him with his lakes roadster the Chopsticks Special. He won his class at the first NHRA Nationals in 1955. Speaking of Pete Brock his design talents showed up in high school when his chopped/channeled Caddie powered "El Mirage" won the Oakland Roadster show in 1953. He liked the white and blue stripe theme that Briggs Cunningham had used on his LeMans effort and copied them on his car. Now you know where the GT350 stripes came from. Six degrees of separation in action.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cool bit of history. QUOTE
He liked the white and blue stripe theme that Briggs Cunningham had used on his LeMans effort and copied them on his car. Now you know where the GT350 stripes came from. Six degrees of separation in action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have dealt with the REVS Institute, in part about Briggs, I am going to let them know this historical fact about white/blue stripes. I need to go there actually. Ben and Briggs were pretty good friends !
John

[tesgt350]

Brian Littlefield reached out to ask why I was assuming the 6-8 week blurb had to do with the carpet and not the paragraph above it about Cobra wheels....

6-8 weeks makes a lot more sense for something that needs to cross and ocean to get to SAI... as opposed to a cheap piece of carpet from across town.

No minimum order quantity on something like a wire wheel seems odd.

AC would be a pretty obvious abbreviation if you wanted to buy a Cobra wheel

I had never considered the hand written portion referring to the wheel paragraph as I perceived the line visible as pointing at the carpet paragraph but at this point I don't know for sure one way or another.

Since the Carpet was just an idea and they didn't know if they were going to continue making them, why would CS have the first few made over Seas since he would have to ship them a Package Shelf for the Pattern. 

[Vernon Estes]

Vern,
I made a video of the neat things on the original paint car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to Utah and bought it, I was John from Utah then.
He may have bought it for one of his customers.
Jim had a copy of the video.
Cars CSX serial number in yellow crayon on the frame rail, had many neat markings, even in the door jams !
Many of my records were stolen by my ex 25 years ago, had seven 65's, hard to remember all !
John

From your description, the car you are describing is 5S179. In the registry the ownership chain goes original owner, Curt V, Jim C. I assume you were somewhere in the middle of that chain.

Kind regards,
Vern

[Vernon Estes]

Brian Littlefield reached out to ask why I was assuming the 6-8 week blurb had to do with the carpet and not the paragraph above it about Cobra wheels....

6-8 weeks makes a lot more sense for something that needs to cross and ocean to get to SAI... as opposed to a cheap piece of carpet from across town.

No minimum order quantity on something like a wire wheel seems odd.

AC would be a pretty obvious abbreviation if you wanted to buy a Cobra wheel

I had never considered the hand written portion referring to the wheel paragraph as I perceived the line visible as pointing at the carpet paragraph but at this point I don't know for sure one way or another.

Since the Carpet was just an idea and they didn't know if they were going to continue making them, why would CS have the first few made over Seas since he would have to ship them a Package Shelf for the Pattern. 

If you read back the debate is whether the note refers to ordering more wheels from AC cars or more carpet from another company abbreviate "AC". I wasnt paying attention to the paragraph above the one that references carpet when I was theorizing. In respect to the "other" prosed "AC"...they were right in town and already provided interior accessories to SAI. The 6-8 week lead time makes no sense for a piece of carpet made locally. 8 Weeks after these documents were typed, production of 65s was KAPUT

I feel like a dog that took a sh%t on the living room carpet and now my owner is holding my nose down on top of it to make sure I never do it again!

"BAD VERN, YOU NEED TO READ HISTORICAL DOCS MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU OPEN UP YOUR YAP, BAD BAD VERN" 

[Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas]

Best subject on the forum in years. Thanks to all who contributed so far

[Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas]

How about some other things that may or may not be true
1. 6S1431, has two holes punched in the metal strip on the driver's side that I was told were for the installation of a body affixed VIN Tag starting in Jan 1966. I've seen earlier cars without these holes and later cars without these holes. It was alleged that it started around Oct/Nov of 65 and stopped in the Feb/March 66 time period. Has anyone ever heard this? The holes are punched and not drilled. Does anyone with a car near this VIN have these hose on this metal tab?
2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?
3. The 3rd and 4th pictures are the speedometer locks used on Hertz cars. There are two versions, one was attached at the speedometer head behind the instrument cluster and alleged to be the moist common. The other one shows the attachment on the speedometer cable where it enters the transmission near the speedometer gear. Do we know how many cars actually got them? When did they start installing the? When did they stop installing them? How many got the one at the instrument cluster? How many got them at the Speedometer gear on the transmission?

[98SVT - was 06GT]

I have dealt with the REVS Institute, in part about Briggs,

I was disappointed when his museum closed here in SoCal. I've got a photo of our daughter at 6-7 standing next to his "giant" (as our daughter called it) Bugatti Royale.

In 1950, Briggs Cunningham acquired two of the six surviving Bugatti Type 41 Royales directly from the Bugatti family for approximately $571 and two refrigerators. He kept the 1930 Type 41 Kellner Coupe for his collection, which later sold in 1987 for a then-record £5.5 million.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/hagerty-insider/the-founding-fathers-of-car-collecting-briggs-cunningham/

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Fords had tabs like that on the firewall where the serial numbers were. They were probably thinking the same for Mustang but went to the apron stamping instead. I can't see Ford or SA making any change in that build range for the serial number. The holes could have been used for alignment pins when the pieces were first welded together. But they are small to stand up to the mass production of the Mustang.
Painted mirrors would have been done by the individual Hertz locations.
843 had no speedo lock - but the trans had been replaced.

[s2ms]

How about some other things that may or may not be true

2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?

Check out the second photo in my opening post from this thread....https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=2373. Car was rented in Seattle during the summer of 66.

 

[Harris Speedster]

Vern,
I made a video of the neat things on the original paint car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to Utah and bought it, I was John from Utah then.
He may have bought it for one of his customers.
Jim had a copy of the video.
Cars CSX serial number in yellow crayon on the frame rail, had many neat markings, even in the door jams !
Many of my records were stolen by my ex 25 years ago, had seven 65's, hard to remember all !
John

From your description, the car you are describing is 5S179. In the registry the ownership chain goes original owner, Curt V, Jim C. I assume you were somewhere in the middle of that chain.

Kind regards,
Vern

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, that is not it. That is one that had original paint, A/C, lady owned, husband bought it for her,
I snagged the car, curt bought from me, and then Curt sold to Big Jim. Car had one spot paint on the rear tail light panel, Big Jim said it was one of the nicest originals he had ever seen. Curt came into play again with 65 R, 530, Stauffer , car was at Walts place in Colorado when I went.

[J_Speegle]

How about some other things that may or may not be true
1. 6S1431, has two holes punched in the metal strip on the driver's side that I was told were for the installation of a body affixed VIN Tag starting in Jan 1966. I've seen earlier cars without these holes and later cars without these holes. It was alleged that it started around Oct/Nov of 65 and stopped in the Feb/March 66 time period. Has anyone ever heard this? The holes are punched and not drilled. Does anyone with a car near this VIN have these hose on this metal tab?

Think we're getting way off thread but that's just me

Have seen and track this detail and have for years. Yes Ford planned at one point to relocate the VIN tags to that location for a number of reasons but things changed. The available 66 Assembly manuals show this details but like a number of details not everything in those pages were have available were carried out on the assembly lines and likely new versions of that page were provided and replaced the older as an update. Happened all the time as they found mistakes in earlier pages or things changed. Plus those help guide plants on what Ford wanted them to do not always what the plant managers or workers ended up doing.

2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?

Don't believe this was a standard practice across the country. Hertz may have allowed it to take place by region like they allowed each region to choose how to identify/label or mark cars assigned for each region. Like the labeling. An example of this was done for 6S118 for SAAC 50 Concours

66 GT350 Hertz Inventory ID Labels

As for the speedo cable locks I don' think enough of them lasted on the cars once they were sold to the public. Lack of enough data limits IMO our ability to determine when and where they were used without making some great leaps of assumption.

[Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas]

How about some other things that may or may not be true

2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?

Check out the second photo in my opening post from this thread....https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=2373. Car was rented in Seattle during the summer of 66.

 

Thanks, that's the only picture other than my car I've seen with a red mirror