67400F5A01128 on BAT

[Bob Gaines]

Thank you for your input and suggestion on helpful reference materials.

Yeah, I'm aware that the '67 Shelby Mustang VINs are different than the '67 Ford Mustang VINs. And yes, I agree that '67 Shelby VINs can be confusing. I also have all the registries. Among my problems, I'm not where they are.

This '67 Shelby's VIN is deciphered on BAT thanks to Brian from The Shelby Research Group (SRG) and the seller for posting it. If I'm not mistaken, the SRG Report does not reference this Shelby by the Ford VIN.

I respectfully ask you to please reread my original question, and review the important details of this online auction. It pertains to something contradictory shown on the Marti Report. The Marti Report (MR) shows a "Q" code on one part of the MR and an "S" code in another section. A '67 Shelby GT500 was built with a 428 SI engine, not a 428CJ "Q" code. I think the Marti Report, and the vehicle Ford VIN, as stamped on the transmission, may have been altered. I was looking for this forum to confirm or refute my suppositions.

Maybe it has, and I not picking up on what the forum is puttin' down.

I hope this explanation helps you understand my question.

In 1967 the 428 duel four PI was identified with a Q in the Ford VIN. That is why you are confused. Yes in 69 a Q was associated with a non ram air 428CJ. I did not see anything in the Marti Report about a S code which is a 390 engine.

[davez]

I think he's referring to this.  Not sure why marti does this

[8T03S1425]

Thanks for your reply, Bob. It came across very clearly to me. I am now picking up on what you're putting down.

FYI, in the section of the Marti Report that is titled, "Vehicle Order Image" the Ford VIN is shown on the second line as 7R02S174599.

Immediately below that is the section titled, "Serial Number Information" and the Ford VIN is shown as 7R02Q174599.

On the Marti Report, for my '68 GT500, the numbers in the sections referenced above, are identical.

Not knowing that "Q" was used to designate a 428SI within Ford VINs for '67 GT500s, and not having my reference materials while I'm on vacation, I thought that there was some monkey business going on.

Your explanation was very helpful and educational.

Steve

[8T03S1425]

I think he's referring to this.  Not sure why marti does this

Exactly!!!

[J_Speegle]

This BAT auction shows the Ford VIN on the inner fender and the Marti Report. The inner fender stamping and the transmission stamping show it's a "Q" code. I didn't think that Ford used "Q" or "R" in 1967. The Marti shows the Ford VIN with an "S" code, in the VEHICLE ORDER IMAGE header coding and "Q" in the SERIAL NUMBER INFORMATION box. Using the colloquial, "Whaz up wit dat?" Is someone messing with potential buyers?

Let me give explaining it a try. Sure others will have their method of trying to explain this. Sort of the shade tree explanation without all the codes, and specific names of paperwork Ford used.

1- In order to streamline and make things easier for someone at Ford they would "build the car" on paper using an engine code and regular production options available on that engine and car. This was easier than to take another engine code that was not available as a regular production option and add list individual parts and brackets that would be added to that non-regular production engine. Items that made up those options and accessories. Too many different support brackets, hardware and supporting parts to list individually. So on paper they started out with a 67 San Jose S code fastback as shown below, for this example, with the same options as Shelby needed for that order. 

So "on paper" the VIN (no car yet) with the S code and that specific sequential number, would have an A or S code depending on GT350 or GT500. Just identifying it at that point in time. All of this to created a "base vehicle" to be modified in the system, for the order and later building of those vehicles.




2- This is all documented for each order group for a like group of cars (example a group of 26 GT500 with no AC but with automatic transmission, thermactor and different exterior colors) on what is often called by many of us as the Add/Delete sheets. This would list the type of engine, in this example a S code with no AC but with an automatic and thermactor, then later on the form it would delete the engine (remember this is just on paper as part of the process) and list the replacement motor by code and ID number.  Same thing with transmission, rearend, shocks, springs and other things that were different between a S code fastback with the same options and a GT500 equipped the same way. There was still a lot of parts that needed to be listed for things like the unusual and different air cleaner for example and its supporting parts.




3- In the case of GT350's this did cause some confusion for the worker assigned to stamping the unibody with the three VIN's and we have examples where a few VINs were stamped with the engine code for the beginning of the process - an A - rather than the "K" for the way it should have been done and they were built. Know we've discussed that part of my post before but could not locate that older post. Might have been in forum 1.0

4- Since Kevin's report is based on Fords records they include the first VIN with the "base vehicle" engine code rather than the ending code as stamped on most completed cars

Hopefully this is understandable as I tried to explain the basics without all the official names for forms and such    I tried

[Coralsnake]

So how they were ordered and how they were built, nothing to see here move along

[Bigfoot]

Following the fun.

[owenkelley]

I posted this in the comments on the BAT site so I didn't post it here earlier, but I was looking at this car when it was for sale in Deer Lodge, Montana in 1981. At that time it had the 390 in it, the taillights had been replaced with some weird little square lights that I did not recognize from any other model of car. The interior was almost perfect, as it was a very low mileage car. It was kind of a flat black color, but you could see under the hood that it had been metal flake green at one time. It had huge tires sticking way out past the wheel wells, it was a nasty looking car. I have a few pictures of it from back then which I would post but I don't have access to them right now. I got back from my honeymoon and called about the car but it had been sold to a buddy of mine for $3800 while I was gone. I called him about it and he said he only bought it because he knew he could have it restored and sold in a year. Ten years later he sold it for $10,000, all he had done to it in those ten years was pull the 390 out, sell that and let the car sit. He never got around to restoring it. I was disappointed that the car got away from me, but I ended up with a much nicer a year and half later. There were actually 2 '67 GT500's in Deer Lodge at that time, the other one ended up at the Lemay museum in Tacoma Washington.

[Coralsnake]

"One of the best in the world"

Only two days left!

[Coralsnake]

Apparently someone has upset the BaT gods

[roddster]

  Oh, they have Gods there too, huh?

[Vernon Estes]

I also commented on the auction-- the comment was flagged as non-constructive and is now removed. First time I have ever had that happen.

BaT is just not what it used to be. In the early days it was all about quality. Now its pure quantity. Little to no standards evident from what I can see in the last few years.  The high quality stuff now gets lost in a sea of mediocrity  (at best)

I used to love selling through the platform (and still do occasionally) but the experience and the results have suffered greatly since the good ole days. They got much bigger... and things have suffered in the growth.

And take it from a low volume/high quality type of seller-- the seller standards/rules for high volume sellers as well as the moderation of their comment sections does not seem to bare much resemblance to how they treat low volume sellers.

Vern

[stangman39]

It was much better before they were bought out by Hearst Auto. For the low volume sellers, if you want a reserve and you don't like their number there is little to no wiggle room to support your number even with supporting facts.  If you are  high volume or a "partner" of theirs, they are much more forgiving of the reserve.

[Coralsnake]

Yeah but they say "he sure does take nice pictures"

[Vernon Estes]

Tried to comment again, and then again... both deleted immediately, barely even enough time to show as "under review" before they went away. Did screenshot the second comment so the forum can see how "non constructive" it apparently was.

They should rename the site to "Bringen Sie einen Anhänger mit"

Vern