CSX3272 on BAT

[Bill]

Surprised nobody is talking about CSX3272 on BAT
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-shelby-cobra-14/

Do you think the documented history is a blessing or a curse?
What about the color change from Silver to what looks like, to me at least, to be Toreador Red?
Looks like a nice weekend toy for someone with deep pockets.

Your thoughts?

Finally, what do you think the last 2 minutes of the auction will be like?


Bill

[A-Snake]

Do you think the documented history is a blessing or a curse?

Please explain how "bad" history can be a blessing? 

[98SVT - was 06GT]

.... the documented history is a blessing or a curse?

This car is nothing more than an Anglis built AC that McClusky illegally transferred a CSX VIN tag onto. NOT the first time that's happened, at least this time they had the original tag for this "restoration".

This BAT statement tells it all "moved to Europe, where it has reportedly been represented as CSX3272."

[Bob Gaines]

.... the documented history is a blessing or a curse?

This car is nothing more than an Anglis built AC that McClusky illegally transferred a CSX VIN tag onto. NOT the first time that's happened, at least this time they had the original tag for this "restoration".

This BAT statement tells it all "moved to Europe, where it has reportedly been represented as CSX3272."

So the way I understand it there are two cars one on Bat being auctioned and another that was built from unused scrapes from the first resurrection that is now on BAT that ended up in Europe claiming to be 3272. Is that correct?

[SCJSTU]

What a mess

[Coralsnake]

Unfortunately there are more than a few people that can not except reality

[SBCARGUY]

There are some confused people on BaT talking about this car and will not accept reality....

It is not exactly an Original CSX3000 car anymore (in my opinion)....

No matter how many times people are trying to make others believe it is... 

I am not sure any of us can actually say what Original parts are on it at this point as it has been decades since Mike rebuilt it.

No idea about the one supposedly in Europe...

[Bob Gaines]

I understand that this not considered a big deal in Europe as it is commonplace to rebuild a wreaked race car or classic out of virtually nothing. A different kind of example but similar in context is that I have heard from builders that salvage titled Ford GT's are rebuilt with the intention of selling over in Europe as they don't care about the salvage title status as long as the car looks good. I heard the rebuilt salvage title ford GT's sell for comparable US non salvage title money over there.

[Cobra Ned]

This car is nothing more than an Anglis built AC that McClusky illegally transferred a CSX VIN tag onto. NOT the first time that's happened, at least this time they had the original tag for this "restoration".

This BAT statement tells it all "moved to Europe, where it has reportedly been represented as CSX3272."
[/quote]

I'm not sure how you determined that Mike McCluskey illegally transferred a CSX tag onto this car, given that the state of CA permits what was done here and Mike's shop is still rebuilding Cobras almost 50 years later while maintaining an excellent reputation. I suspect that if they were guilty of illegal activity, things might have caught up with them by now. And I can't help but question your thought that the parts which were rebuilt into another car and were moved to Europe where they are now being represented as CSX3272 somehow says anything meaningful. The ads offering it for sale several years ago, described as a genuine Cobra missing a VIN, sure aren't going to permit the buyer to now claim he has 3272, irrespective of how much he might try to.

[SBCARGUY]

Ned,

You are definitely the guy in terms of Original Cobras...

What is your take on this car on BaT?

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Federal law (18 U.S.C. § 511) strictly prohibits tampering with, altering, or removing a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) with intent to misrepresent a vehicle's identity, making it a felony, though exceptions exist for lawful restoration under specific conditions, often requiring state DMV approval, as VINs are crucial for identification and title transfers. Transferring a VIN to a different car is illegal VIN tampering, but laws are evolving, especially for classic cars, allowing some restoration removal with proper procedure.

CA law follows federal law.

Ned - Where is the paperwork that it was done legally? To do it legally requires that the old one be completely destroyed that appears not to have happened. This was not a "restoration" but a replacement. I also think that putting a SA tag on an AC is a misrepresentation. They are two different animals there were many changes to the car when Brian started building them.

Of course no one wants to get sued but - Let's not forget the "air car" scandal where up to 28 Cobras were built from nothing but CA DMV records indicating they had been totaled and scrapped. That scam only got exposed by an original owner who had totaled his car in CA. He later moved to CO and still possessed the salvage of the original car. A new car and MSO with that CSX number was created and sold as genuine. When the original owner saw his CSX number in the registry he contacted SAAC and they in turn contacted the CHP who went out and scooped up the fake car. The new owner had paid 1/4 million for the car - in cash. The middle man played dumb and no one went to jail. Of course the fake paperwork contained the name of someone who had died recently so that was also a dead end. The story was always the same purchased to race or collect so it was never licensed. CA DMV records needed to be hand searched at that time and with a new MSO there was no reason for them to go back into their records. CA closed their records search to the public  after this was exposed. An insurance adjuster had access and came up with the car histories. It was a very well done scam that 3 people made a lot of money off.
Also let's not forget the 50 or so Cobra titles that CA cancelled when it was exposed that there were in reality no "old" chassis. Shelby drove me over to McClusky's to photograph all the new parts and rolled the first car out for a cover shot with him for the SAAC article on the production of those cars. There was no "fraud" to produce and tag those cars with CSX numbers because CS had reactivated his manufacturers license. The fraud came in them calling them 1965 cars. They were 100% new manufacture and some finally sold as race cars and not for street use. It seems the more value these cars gain the less people are willing to talk about the facts of dark side of their history.
Lots of info here if you know how to read between the lines - https://www.supercars.net/blog/cobra-427-competition-build-continues/

[Bill]

Ned,

You are definitely the guy in terms of Original Cobras...

What is your take on this car on BaT?

I think what he posted above pretty much spells it out.

[SBCARGUY]

Ned,

You are definitely the guy in terms of Original Cobras...

What is your take on this car on BaT?

I think what he posted above pretty much spells it out.

Not exactly...

He wrote about his thoughts on Mike McCluskey and what he did with Cobras over the past 50 years in terms of legality etc...

Not Much about the details of this car being sold on BaT....

If the Body, Chassis, Motor and who knows what else are NOT from CSX3372 when delivered new....

What is this car considered???

How could it be considered a Original CSX3000 car at all???

[alexgt350h]

Wasn't this the car that hit a tree at the IN SAAC Spring Fling a few years ago?

[68krrrr]

Wow what a read