Repro or original 289 aluminum valve covers?

[franchi]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256893971634

David

[CharlesTurner]

Originals normally have Buddy Bar casting on the inside.  The description notes 'they aren't the closed letter repro'... not sure what they mean by that.

[trotrof1]

It appears that his other listings are repop products and these covers don't have a BUDDY BAR CASTING CO id on the inside.

[Bob Gaines]

Repro . The seller apparently has not done his/hers research . Besides not having the buddy Bar casting evidence needed for genuine there are other statements in the description that suggest the seller is less then the most knowledgeable on the subject.

[pbf777]

    For reference:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/226549789032?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D284127%26meid%3D63695e5b05a34716849e0391f05ef693%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D256893971634%26itm%3D226549789032%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11PairwiseFitmentPromotionV2WithCassiniQueryEmbRecallKatReco%26brand%3DFord&_trksid=p2332490.c101196.m2219&itmprp=cksum%3A22654978903263695e5b05a34716849e0391f05ef693%7Cenc%3AAQAKAAABMCggmqi%252BjGBvS8WShKTeLW5J2g6qXnzgH61T5t8ujPfO4ZJHWSDajmSreRV%252BXNto1elxKNVVM64kNmwVgiMN2szhK0tlR1011FXMzSAB1PUgA8iylbwCTrWL5YqgpYoxqp0YtfsrFFwob2NlUzrS8B769ns4mT%252BaoT60brWqhqvKYotmCHw43AYyRdM2AtBFGHgUXcJfFXyU2ee%252BIkuk7elIQMmN1yZxPY2Jii9j1BXDMJ9QwV50vWQ8vrDjSaFTLE6bs2gwa%252Bl1EzwDzRSpDpscSvYwgaK5YYtHS6lMcsyRmYZN1BxWl1PxzsxrNxONhOeTNajYJfga%252BBnK2S1oXdkGLwVKG2XdbvdgR1wsYMQ37VPGWUNXRPxBBH1ujLY2x0PWDDz%252B967BEG6x4jmltZo%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2332490&itmmeta=01JSPYN5BDYAJ5QNSGF6GK0S16

     Scott.

[Dan Case]

The original issues, that means first versions released, of covers for 1964 engines were produced for Shelby American in 1963 and they did not have any "BUDDY BAR" markings anywhere. A single wooden master was used to produce raw castings. Any raw casting could be machined and finished for a PCV valve grommet or an oil fill and engine vent tube.

Before Cobra CSX2201 the custom COBRA POWERED BY FORD sand cast aluminum covers were a special option for a new Cobra that somebody had to order to get them factory installed. CSX2201 through CSX2589 street cars and some racers had them as standard "options" that would be installed unless somebody ordered a new Cobra without them.

Dearborn Steel Tubing Company also packed covers with fasteners as kits. Some number of the covers without BUDDY BAR markings also passed through that channel for over-the-counter accessory sales.

The lack of BUDDY BAR markings does not automatically mean covers are not genuine Shelby-Ford parts from 1963-64.  It takes looking for other characteristics that covers made in 1963 had to positively identify them as originals or not.

Most 1964 model year covers used in new Cobras did have the BUDDY BAR markings. 

[Bob Gaines]

The original issues, that means first versions released, of covers for 1964 engines were produced for Shelby American in 1963 and they did not have any "BUDDY BAR" markings anywhere. A single wooden master was used to produce raw castings. Any raw casting could be machined and finished for a PCV valve grommet or an oil fill and engine vent tube.

Before Cobra CSX2201 the custom COBRA POWERED BY FORD sand cast aluminum covers were a special option for a new Cobra that somebody had to order to get them factory installed. CSX2201 through CSX2589 street cars and some racers had them as standard "options" that would be installed unless somebody ordered a new Cobra without them.

Dearborn Steel Tubing Company also packed covers with fasteners as kits. Some number of the covers without BUDDY BAR markings also passed through that channel for over-the-counter accessory sales.

The lack of BUDDY BAR markings does not automatically mean covers are not genuine Shelby-Ford parts from 1963-64.  It takes looking for other characteristics that covers made in 1963 had to positively identify them as originals or not.

Most 1964 model year covers used in new Cobras did have the BUDDY BAR markings. 

I agree with you Dan about the very early valve covers did not have the buddy Bar trademark but the other things in the discussed auction stand out as issues that indicate repro to me especially given the description "Shelby Mustang GT350' context. 65 and early 66 GT350 valve covers do not typically have vent tubes for breather caps on both valve covers nor do typically the very early valve covers that I have seen. The very early valve covers that I have seen with no buddy bar typically had no opening and were all fins. I still believe in this instance we are dealing with repro for reasons I mentioned .

[pbf777]

   

The original issues, that means first versions released, of covers for 1964 engines were produced for Shelby American in 1963 and they did not have any "BUDDY BAR" markings anywhere.

    How many covers do you think might have been produced in 1963 before the "Buddy Bar" moniker appeared?

    O.K. maybe a wild a$$ guess, but I think your guess would be more accurate (and more intelligently based  ) than mine! 

    Scott.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

These are late die cast valve covers that have been machined to look like the early Buddy Bar castings. The sharp corners where the end mill took the turn is the clue. Buddy Bar is still in business and did speciality aluminum castings for all the Big 3 in the 60 and all of the SoCal speed shops. https://buddybarcasting.com/ They would have stuck their name on every casting for warranty reasons.

[Dan Case]

I agree with you Dan about the very early valve covers did not have the buddy Bar trademark but the other things in the discussed auction stand out as issues that indicate repro to me especially given the description "Shelby Mustang GT350' context. 65 and early 66 GT350 valve covers do not typically have vent tubes for breather caps on both valve covers nor do typically the very early valve covers that I have seen. The very early valve covers that I have seen with no buddy bar typically had no opening and were all fins. I still believe in this instance we are dealing with repro for reasons I mentioned .

Many people do not know that the very first type of COBRA POWERED BY FORD sand cast rocker arm covers were being installed in 1963 in new Cobras as an extra cost option. Designed for 1962 and 1963 Ford Fairlane 260 and 289 c.i.d. engines in Cobras one cover design was used at a time on both sides as 1962 and 1963 engines had no openings in them for PCV Valves of oil fill and engine vent tubes.

It was not even that simple as all in the 1963 year there were three different wooden patterns made and used sequentially as the design evolved quickly. None of the three designs included the Buddy Bar identification.

A new wooden pattern was made to create covers for 1964 model year engines during 1963. A single pattern was used to make a casting type that was machined to make either a PCV side or an oil fill side. The earliest castings have no Buddy Bar markings. The earliest oil fill and vent tube equipped cover included a chromium plated tube that had very little rust resistance. Soon the Buddy Bar identification was added and the tube for oil addition and venting to one became bright plated in something more durable than chromium, still in year 1963.

The new Cobra car covers for 1964 engines in Cobras were continued for all the remainder of 1963 and through Cobra production in 1964. The earliest street 1965 MUSTANG GT350s received the exact same cover assemblies as late Cobras did.

At some time in early year 1965 more wooden patterns were made and now there were patterns to make just oil fill covers or PCV type covers. New wooden patterns were introduced into circa the summer of 1965. The interesting point for me, every hand made wooden pattern resulted in different versions of castings. How many masters were used, I have no idea but I had parts cast from several different patterns side by side on a table once. One version of casting had a crooked rib. One version of casting and its baffle cleared the roller rocker arms and nuts in an engine I had at the time.

Sellers of ALL the versions made 1963-65 for 1964 and later engines are likely to call them all 1965-66 GT350 parts. As best I can tell, Dearborn Steel Tubing Company packed kits for all the versions except the very first 1962-63 engine design which was extremely rare in 1963.

Shelby American sometimes used two each oil fill and vent covers on race engines in Cobras and Cooper-Monaco racers.

1962-63 model engine, three different casting versions in quick succession, no access ports in them.
1964 model engines, two casting versions finished in multiple ways in succession.
1965-66 model engines, started off with the last 1964 set and then had more versions of castings and how tubes were made added.

Sand cast reproductions? I have seen reproductions of multiple original 1964-1966 designs which just adds to the confusion in the used parts market. Circa 1984 Chuck Gutke (Cobra Restorers) had one of the later made wooden masters and was planing on having copies cast and machined. I held that master pattern in my hands while we talked in his office. He had original worn wooden masters for other COBRA items also in the shelves. What is original, copy, or reproduction gets real fuzzy sometimes. Parts that have never been modified in any way including hard media blasting are easier to identify usually.

The COBRA POWERED BY FORD sand cast rocker arm cover subject is complicated. My current slide show is over thirty pages in length so it cannot all be squeezed into text boxes in forum posts.
Dan

[Dan Case]

These are late die cast valve covers that have been machined to look like the early Buddy Bar castings. The sharp corners where the end mill took the turn is the clue. Buddy Bar is still in business and did speciality aluminum castings for all the Big 3 in the 60 and all of the SoCal speed shops. https://buddybarcasting.com/ They would have stuck their name on every casting for warranty reasons.

All three of the 1962-63 sand cast COBRA POWERED BY FORD rocker arm covers and the first version of casting for 1964 model engines did not have any kind of Buddy Bar identification anywhere.

[Dan Case]

The original issues, that means first versions released, of covers for 1964 engines were produced for Shelby American in 1963 and they did not have any "BUDDY BAR" markings anywhere.

    How many covers do you think might have been produced in 1963 before the "Buddy Bar" moniker appeared?
    Scott.

The 1964 engine original version. I have no idea. I have never come across many of them but so many people call them fakes or reproductions they tend to get used on engines not in Shelby cars. I used to see oil fill and vent assemblies for sale with red rusted formerly chromium plated tubes. The chromium plated tube version of assembly was not used long and Ford sold them in dress up kits too.

The subject is so complicated is why my slide show has grown to 37 pages so far.

Dan

[GT350Nick]

My head hurts from reading the item description.  That guy is all over the map.