Can I match the red oxide primer on the under side with a rattle can?

[shelbydoug]

I tend to think no with some of the variations I have seen on some '67s BUT I have seen cars that CLAIM to be completely original with just one color of primer?

It appears sometimes to be glossy in spots and flat in other spots and the redness seems to vary front to back?

[gt350shelb]

highly unlikely . too much variation  in the  tank .

[JD]

Jeff Speegle did a very comprehensive PDF overview of the '67's body finishing build, and yes there were two stations that did the red oxide primers and they typically did not match.

I think there are some photos on this website and the Concours Mustang website he runs.

This link has talk of the red oxide variations, but more than just '67's more the San Jose plant and the topic of variations...

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=24749.15

[J_Speegle]

Not aware of anything in a rattle can that would replicate the original look (both in amount of sheen and color tint/tone)

Being a two part epoxy base (so that it would seal the metal) tended to produce a slight sheen to the final produce which I don't think you will find in a rattle can. The color had some variations over production periods as large amounts were mixed and sprayed. Tone and tint varied a bit more than the two prior years at San Jose for the section from the firewall rearward. IMHO the sections hand sprayed from firewall forward was more consistent through the year than the rear section.

Of course all of these surfaces after being exposed to the elements, oil, salt, and what ever can leave us with mix areas where you can find differences but paler, flatter areas IMHO are likely the more altered by this. To get a true look at the original color takes some cleaning and stripping off of the exposed layer to expose the true color below (or above in these areas) for comparison. Have hundreds of pictures and sections of floor sections with matching VINs I've removed from cars being repaired or from yards over the last 40 plus years

[shelbydoug]

Well one of the reasons I ask is that Dave Mathews posted pictures of a '67 he had maybe 5 years ago.

He claimed that the paint underneath was original to the car and from the pictures he posted looked uniformly the same color and texture.

It was so good, and because I have been following the threads on this subject, I just had doubts that it was original.


I'm trying to decide the best course of action for my '67. It was a Gotham Ford car and is so typical of Bill Kolb sales has a heavy undercoating on it. Cleaning that stuff off is time consuming and will detract from my time of contemplating the meaning of life and what is the Universe. So I thought I would revisit this thread with a different approach?

[Royce Peterson]

Ford applied red oxide primer at many plants at many different times. It was many brands of paint, many different materials - in what world would it all match? The original parts vary from sheet metal which can be very flat to iron castings like the third member which is normally very glossy. Then age all of those parts for 50 - 60 years and throw grease, dirt and heat on them.

[Bill Collins]

........I'm trying to decide the best course of action for my '67. It was a Gotham Ford car and is so typical of Bill Kolb sales has a heavy undercoating on it. Cleaning that stuff off is time consuming and will detract from my time of contemplating the meaning of life and what is the Universe. So I thought I would revisit this thread with a different approach?

In my view, the best approach to this situation is dry ice blasting. Although it can be costly, it is the most effective means of fully removing undercoat without affecting the underlying red primer. By way of illustration, attached is an "in process" photo of a '70 Boss 302 that we are working on. This shot shows one side as undercoated and the other after being dry ice blasted. 

[shelbydoug]

........I'm trying to decide the best course of action for my '67. It was a Gotham Ford car and is so typical of Bill Kolb sales has a heavy undercoating on it. Cleaning that stuff off is time consuming and will detract from my time of contemplating the meaning of life and what is the Universe. So I thought I would revisit this thread with a different approach?

In my view, the best approach to this situation is dry ice blasting. Although it can be costly, it is the most effective means of fully removing undercoat without affecting the underlying red primer. By way of illustration, attached is an "in process" photo of a '70 Boss 302 that we are working on. This shot shows one side as undercoated and the other after being dry ice blasted.

Common', who can't match that original color? Geese. Child's play.

[GT350DAVE]

Well one of the reasons I ask is that Dave Mathews posted pictures of a '67 he had maybe 5 years ago.

He claimed that the paint underneath was original to the car and from the pictures he posted looked uniformly the same color and texture.

It was so good, and because I have been following the threads on this subject, I just had doubts that it was original.


I'm trying to decide the best course of action for my '67. It was a Gotham Ford car and is so typical of Bill Kolb sales has a heavy undercoating on it. Cleaning that stuff off is time consuming and will detract from my time of contemplating the meaning of life and what is the Universe. So I thought I would revisit this thread with a different approach?

That was car #3002 which was original paint.
Dave

[shelbydoug]

I think that the pictures got lost in the first crash?

Do you still have pictures of it that you can post?

That car would be my role model to envy and copy.

[GT350DAVE]

Not sure if this will work. Doug, I can email anything you need.
Dave

[shelbydoug]

Dave. This is fine. I needed a reminder and I needed to have it posted here again to in effect standardize what the car can be?

Thank you for posting. The only comment that I will make is that even though my wife says that I am colorblind...amongst other abnormalities...that color looks more orange then oxide red?

However, whatever the color actually is, it is consistent and I will expect others to actually criticize it as the exception rather then the rule?

[jk66gt350]

Pretty sure I recall a similar post from a couple of years ago when someone recommended Krylon Fusion Satin Red as a reasonably good rattle can solution for red oxide primer. 

[Bob Gaines]

Dave. This is fine. I needed a reminder and I needed to have it posted here again to in effect standardize what the car can be?

Thank you for posting. The only comment that I will make is that even though my wife says that I am colorblind...amongst other abnormalities...that color looks more orange then oxide red?

However, whatever the color actually is, it is consistent and I will expect others to actually criticize it as the exception rather then the rule?

It looks consistent and typical for that time period and plant IMO. FYI your monitor can make shades appear different . It appears to be more of a salmon color shade to me which is one of the shades typically seen. Forward of the firewall which was painted at a different station with a different paint batch by a worker with a paint gun is typically darker.

[J_Speegle]

Pretty sure I recall a similar post from a couple of years ago when someone recommended Krylon Fusion Satin Red as a reasonably good rattle can solution for red oxide primer.

Not even close IMHO and could likely provide a side by side comparison to original floor samples I have

The problem typically is that the original finish was not a primer but instead a primer sealer so it was not a flat finish as many used ten or more years ago. Do have pictures or samples from most of the months of production at San Jose and have graphed that data to identify patterns where possible. When owners restore cars that have been restored in the past or on car where allot of original metal has been replaced and no original samples are available we have offered the collected data to those who have asked hoping to provide the best possible match for their specific car and in turn production period Have hundreds of examples and have been collecting this particular detail to help restorers since the late 80's. From those findings (covering other years also) I assembled the restoration guide article I've provided access to since I had hundreds or request for information over the years and just got tired of retyping and assembling sets of pictures for each requester. Can post allot of pictures but often owners or builders will ignore when their specific car was built and use what every is often easy so that is why we try and stress focusing on a specific period to provide the best available information outside of a good original example from that specific car. Nothing is better than that if you can find a number of places for each of the two samples.

Pictures can be difficult for comparison since lighting, camera setting and even you monitor setting can make a big difference.


Sorry for going on so long with the response and hope its clean enough




7R122xxx Salmon period






Some late year examples






Muddy brown period