Engine color for carryover

[csxsfm]

Even 6S290 was black.

[wcampbell]

+1 on what Jeff said....my understanding is that this car was restored many years ago. Typically these auction sites don't share the year it won the awards - a SAAC or MCA Gold in 1985 was likely a lot different than getting the same division gold in 2025...some of us recall the days when every car had spray painted bare metal areas for example. If you look closely the engine bay where the inner fender apron panel bridges to the cowl you'll notice a "hard masked transition line" from black to white...for some time now it's been known that San Jose was the only plant to have a "soft paint transition line". Today that would be scrutinized but in 1995 likely not...

[Bob Gaines]

+1 on what Jeff said....my understanding is that this car was restored many years ago. Typically these auction sites don't share the year it won the awards - a SAAC or MCA Gold in 1985 was likely a lot different than getting the same division gold in 2025...some of us recall the days when every car had spray painted bare metal areas for example. If you look closely the engine bay where the inner fender apron panel bridges to the cowl you'll notice a "hard masked transition line" from black to white...for some time now it's been known that San Jose was the only plant to have a "soft paint transition line". Today that would be scrutinized but in 1995 likely not...

The owner that first restored the car would be even madder today with all of the scrutiny given

+1 on what Jeff said....my understanding is that this car was restored many years ago. Typically these auction sites don't share the year it won the awards - a SAAC or MCA Gold in 1985 was likely a lot different than getting the same division gold in 2025...some of us recall the days when every car had spray painted bare metal areas for example. If you look closely the engine bay where the inner fender apron panel bridges to the cowl you'll notice a "hard masked transition line" from black to white...for some time now it's been known that San Jose was the only plant to have a "soft paint transition line". Today that would be scrutinized but in 1995 likely not...

I thought that I would add that there were some things that I noticed years ago at the Russo+Steele auction where it was first being sold that were called out during judging yet the strong willed owner and or the restorer (not Shelby Parts  ) apparently did not think needed correcting and didn't fix them. 

[spiller]

My T code was restored as a carryover clone and I always wondered why the previous owner opted to paint the intake black. Now I know. Can anyone shed more light on how or why some cars came to have black intakes?

[Bob Gaines]

My T code was restored as a carryover clone and I always wondered why the previous owner opted to paint the intake black. Now I know. Can anyone shed more light on how or why some cars came to have black intakes?

In a word, Ford . Shelby in a memo sent intakes to the Cleveland engine plant for Ford to install.This was for late 65 and early 66 production(carryover cars).  Ford engineers didn't understand that SA wanted them not painted so Ford installed the intakes  and painted the intake along with the rest of the engine like they normally did on a typical Hipo engine. As soon as they showed up at SA they saw the painted mistake and explained to Ford that if painted black that the aluminum intake looked like the black cast iron intake. The go fast angle of a aluminum intake was what SA was trying to advertise along with the other modes which is why they needed it unpainted.  The problem was corrected on the next batch.

[CharlesTurner]

It was a pretty well done car for the time it was restored and it looks like there are still a lot of trick parts on it that would be impossible to find these days.  Although, I wonder if the wheels on it now are the same ones when it was judged?  Those wouldn't pass in any concours judging these days... correct 15x6 KH wheels are a big $$ item.

[Brant]

It was a pretty well done car for the time it was restored and it looks like there are still a lot of trick parts on it that would be impossible to find these days.  Although, I wonder if the wheels on it now are the same ones when it was judged?  Those wouldn't pass in any concours judging these days... correct 15x6 KH wheels are a big $$ item.

I've always seen it with Cragars.

Interesting to see those particular steel wheels on it now.

The car reportedly sold at Russo and Steele Monterey 2015 for $313,500. I assume that was "all in." I am not sure it has been at auction after that.

[Bob Gaines]

Even 6S290 was black.

Why would 6S290 engine color be black?

[csxsfm]

Probably because 290 was a "PR" car delivered direct from Shelby to Competition Press/Autoweek editor Bill Finefrock (RIP).

[Road Reptile]

Hi all,
The Ford change to blue should be noted in Bob Mannel's book. As mentioned and well put by Pete , Bob
And Jeff....we will see mistakes/human error and rules change and owners that are opinionated, as well as very hard to work with. Had to work with one years ago that duplicated his door panels in leather,then
Thought we would not see the difference. The workmanship was incredible and the solution was to change his car classification to modified. He found a good loophole in the MCA rules which have vastly improved since the 1980's  Back to the original question of engine color on carryover cars the simple answer may be Black, unless documented proof is provided.
R.R.

[Bob Gaines]

Probably because 290 was a "PR" car delivered direct from Shelby to Competition Press/Autoweek editor Bill Finefrock (RIP).

That doesn't add up. Given that the 6s290 was a 66 Ford VIN car it would have it's engine painted Ford Dark Blue like all other 66 model year cars including GT350's from 6S253 on up. The thought of special ordering a engine color in this case black seems far fetched with Ford. That is unless you are implying that Shelby for some reason repainted the engine from Blue to Black or installed a 65 replacement engine. Besides that a PR company would typically want a typical example of a production car that they were writing about and not go to special lengths for anything that was last year model aspects. Regardless the claim that the engine in 6S290 was originally painted black when all other 66 production cars including GT350's from 6S253 on up were Ford Dark Blue falls into the extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Of course you are welcome to continue believing the black engine color but when you complicate a discussion with extraordinary claims expect push back.

[shelbymann1970]

Ok so the writeup says SAAC premier winner on this one 6s213
The motor was painted blue during the restoration
Any thoughts on why it was done this way.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/1162805/1966-shelby-gt350-fastback/?aa_id=745719-0

First off it is/was a well done car the last time I saw it at the RS auction many years ago with several corrections made from the judging sheets he got after it was judged. Bob Perkins painted the car and there was no issue with that. Others did the assembly and detailing of parts.With that said the engine blue paint was because the owner at the time when it was first restored swore up and down that it was blue before he restored it and expected us to take him at his word. He based it on the blue paint layers when he stripped the engine he told us.Those of course could have been from previous repaints. When myself and another SAAC judge John Brown judged it that first time we asked for supporting evidence to help us come to the same conclusion that he had and he had none. Of course he got mad. He was a very difficult owner and had several other out of the ordinary anomalies on the car without any backup to support his findings they all came that way on "that specific car". It seemed like he just wanted to be that car that had all of the oddities on it. We knew we were in for difficulty when the first thing out of his mouth that morning at the start of the judges meeting with the owners that day was in a loud voice he proclaimed "how do we dispute the judges findings if we don't agree"? Not a unreasonable question by itself but it was his tone ,volume ,facial expression and body language that told his story that he was looking for a fight. He got a very high score but because it was not perfect score he was mad. I remember thinking how ungrateful he was also given I had let him borrow a assemblyline battery that I had brought from across the country for him to use so that he could get the highest possible score. Not even a thank you from him. A real piece of work he was that day.

Bob, so is it the norm to lend rare parts to achieve a higher award on a car that doesn't possess those parts by the owner of the car? I've heard and know of Corvettes that borrowed original wheels and tires to score higher but didn't know it went on in the Shelby world.

[shelbymann1970]

+1 on what Jeff said....my understanding is that this car was restored many years ago. Typically these auction sites don't share the year it won the awards - a SAAC or MCA Gold in 1985 was likely a lot different than getting the same division gold in 2025...some of us recall the days when every car had spray painted bare metal areas for example. If you look closely the engine bay where the inner fender apron panel bridges to the cowl you'll notice a "hard masked transition line" from black to white...for some time now it's been known that San Jose was the only plant to have a "soft paint transition line". Today that would be scrutinized but in 1995 likely not...

I'm not sure what you mean by a hard/soft transition line. My 68 which had all original paint in those areas I can see blue as the black fades into those areas plus my buck tag has more AC blue on it than black.

[Bob Gaines]

Ok so the writeup says SAAC premier winner on this one 6s213
The motor was painted blue during the restoration
Any thoughts on why it was done this way.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/1162805/1966-shelby-gt350-fastback/?aa_id=745719-0

First off it is/was a well done car the last time I saw it at the RS auction many years ago with several corrections made from the judging sheets he got after it was judged. Bob Perkins painted the car and there was no issue with that. Others did the assembly and detailing of parts.With that said the engine blue paint was because the owner at the time when it was first restored swore up and down that it was blue before he restored it and expected us to take him at his word. He based it on the blue paint layers when he stripped the engine he told us.Those of course could have been from previous repaints. When myself and another SAAC judge John Brown judged it that first time we asked for supporting evidence to help us come to the same conclusion that he had and he had none. Of course he got mad. He was a very difficult owner and had several other out of the ordinary anomalies on the car without any backup to support his findings they all came that way on "that specific car". It seemed like he just wanted to be that car that had all of the oddities on it. We knew we were in for difficulty when the first thing out of his mouth that morning at the start of the judges meeting with the owners that day was in a loud voice he proclaimed "how do we dispute the judges findings if we don't agree"? Not a unreasonable question by itself but it was his tone ,volume ,facial expression and body language that told his story that he was looking for a fight. He got a very high score but because it was not perfect score he was mad. I remember thinking how ungrateful he was also given I had let him borrow a assemblyline battery that I had brought from across the country for him to use so that he could get the highest possible score. Not even a thank you from him. A real piece of work he was that day.

Bob, so is it the norm to lend rare parts to achieve a higher award on a car that doesn't possess those parts by the owner of the car? I've heard and know of Corvettes that borrowed original wheels and tires to score higher but didn't know it went on in the Shelby world.

I have seen and heard of about everything under the sun borrowed . The practice has gone on for decades typically in the classes that require only original parts. In some cases that i am aware of rented (like tires and wheels). I don't think it happens enough to be called the norm but it certainly is not out of the ordinary. At least that is my impression . It may well be more common then I think given that these borrowed things are not openly discussed.I don't how it could be realistically policed if a rule was set in place against that sort of thing.

[J_Speegle]

I'm not sure what you mean by a hard/soft transition line. My 68 which had all original paint in those areas I can see blue as the black fades into those areas plus my buck tag has more AC blue on it than black.

Where the engine compartment black was applied over the body color at the rear top small section of the rear inner fender panels on San Jose cars there is a "soft" edge to the paint as if there was a mask that had some thickness like the paint edge we see on the pinch weld black out practice on the rocker and quarter panels. Dearborn cars where there was a transition (late winter / early spring of 69) the edge was sharp as if it was a tape edge and often when the painter of the engine compartment black they even at times used a brush to finish that edge and cover the area they wanted. Of course I'm describing what was typically done and the regular process found at these two plants.

Another factor on original paint cars is that you can often find where the thin paint at the rear edge as been worn or cleaned away over the years so that the finish no longer represents what originally was there but yes I've seen where a NJ painter wasn't careful in the engine compartment. Standards were not the same as for exterior paint. Inspector, on a regular basis passed cars with large runs or missed bare sections of metal, often pretty small ones produced by bracket shadows and a single pass of the spray gun. But not what Ford wanted nor typical i my experience.

Of course you can find examples of lazy people or new workers in those positions learning what was expected but unless you can document such a short coming on that specific car restorers IMO are better off going with what was typically done.  Could post a fair number of examples as I've been collecting pictures of details like that for thirty plus years.

This thread is getting way off the focus it was originally intended for