Messages

Greek, I'm surprised you think the "Z' stamp on the VIN plate has anything to do with the train derailment.
Back in 2018, I mentioned while collecting VIN plate photos, I noticed they stated adding "Z" stampe on 4/27/67.

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2339.msg20003#msg20003

Back then, we were not sure of the meaning and there were a few ideas floarting around.
Our current theory (SRG) follows along that date, as we have reviewed many more cars VIN plates.
In just about every case all the cars have the Z stamping.
Any exception were likely missed, just like the door tags that were not removed on a few cars.
We think this was the start of the Ford takeover and a method of noting which cars were now on Ford's accounting.
Many other details suggest this to be true, such as invoices sent to Ford by SAI to capture as many $$$ as possbile before that time.

Richstang,

Not thinking that at all.  Merely suggesting that the car might have been inspected by someone at the California DMV.  That inspector may have noticed the Z on the VIN plate and made it part of the VIN for registration purposes even though it is not designated on the factory invoice.  The California DMV has always marched to a beat of a different drum when it comes to car registrations.  The rules even vary between DMV agents.  One never knows what the California DMV might do on any given day.

Hi greekz,
Sorry I missunderstood your reply. Thanks for the clarification reply. (I did notice your comments in the linked in post.
Your reply sounds all to familiar with unwrittten rules, designated by location.
We are trying to look at any unregestered cars from California (nearly impossible to find) for how they were initially documented.

(The derailment cars likely all had a Z stamp with the completion dates in May)

Anyone with a 67 should be in the Google group - https://groups.google.com/g/shelbyresearch

The Z was not part of the VIN but an accounting method to keep track of cars built after the Ford take over of SA. Warranty claims on cars with a Z went to Ford and those without were charged against SA.

That is the current consenses - I wonder if anyone has come across any MSO (Mfg Statement of Origin) for the 67s and if any listed as Ford rather than SA as the manufacturer. The originals get surrendered to DMV when the car is first registered but sometimes you see copies listed in paperwork of auction cars.

It's just our THEORY at this time. We are still and need to collect more data on this and other subjects.
There are other theories that need to be considered until hard evidence is found.

Greek, I'm surprised you think the "Z' stamp on the VIN plate has anything to do with the train derailment.
Back in 2018, I mentioned while collecting VIN plate photos, I noticed they stated adding "Z" stampe on 4/27/67.

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2339.msg20003#msg20003

Back then, we were not sure of the meaning and there were a few ideas floarting around.
Our current theory (SRG) follows along that date, as we have reviewed many more cars VIN plates.
In just about every case all the cars have the Z stamping.
Any exception were likely missed, just like the door tags that were not removed on a few cars.
We think this was the start of the Ford takeover and a method of noting which cars were now on Ford's accounting.
Many other details suggest this to be true, such as invoices sent to Ford by SAI to capture as many $$$ as possbile before that time.

I would also agree the Cobra you pictured is very likely CSX3016.
It is definately not a 2000 series Cobra...as we can see the larger air intake nose opening
The silver paint with the red, white, and blue thin stripes first appears on 3016 at Sebring in the end of March 1966 (26th)

The R model may or may not be from the same time, but is definatley parked on the concrete sections of the LAX backlot.

That comp car (R) has the 1966 grille and the elongated brake openings in the front valance (thinner elongated openings)
Those changes appear for the 1966 race season. The circle brake vent openings are covered (same part modied?) in your photo.
They appear on the last batch of completed comp (R) models, about 12 cars, but the thinner opening was used on the first cars and they were enlargaed (slighty wider) later in 1966.

I thought there was a Turquoise car?

Not in 1967.
There might have been consideration of #0176 originaly as shipped in a Clearwater Aqua, but, it was painted in Lime Gold for the brochure in September 1966. That car was not ordered as a Shelby, just completed that way for PR use.

and just to look a bit deeper in the paint colors we have a Gantt chart.
This shows us how each color was released over the model year. All cars were painted at SJ (FSJ)



EDIT:
Docement was removed as it is an older version...I will get an updated version and repost at that time...

And last but not least, we have only the GT500 paint colors

Next, we have a pie chart to show only the GT350 paint colors.

From the SRG (1967 - Shelby Research Group):

First, a pie chart to show how all the paint colors are divided up.

[Shelby number]

Per the guidelines;
We require a Shelby number to be included in the description.

In the past the criuse was the day before the show (Saturday)
Moving it to another weekend, a few weeks later, could result in losing more attendees of the cruise, or the show.
In that case, I would probably only drive out there for the show, but I may not be typical.

There were two separate Carroll Shelby owned dealerships.
They are believed to be owned and operated separately.

-The 1st dealership was on La Brea Avenue in Los Angeles.
     It opened around 1964 and closed around late 1965.

-The 2nd dealership was on North Sepulveda Blvd in El Segundo
     It opened around September 1965 and closed with LAX around late August 1967

Neither Shelby dealership was a FORD dealer.


The first CS dealership, (HPM1), was named and located as follows;
Carroll Shelby & Lew Spencer's
Hi-Performance Motors, Inc
1150 South La Brea Avenue
Los Angeles, 90019
(The four top people were Lew Spencer, Peyton Cramer, Al Dowd, and Tom Reese.)


The second CS dealership, (HPM2), was named and located as follows;
Carroll Shelby's
Hi-Performance Motors, Inc
901 North Sepulveda Blvd
El Segundo, CA


I discussed the details in depth with George Watters and Kieth Champine years ago.
For quick reference we called the first dealership 'HPM1' and the second 'HPM2'.
With their help, we determined the opening and closing date and there separate use.
Business cards from each dealer confirm the serparate names and addresses.

HPM1 on La Brea Ave had Lew Spencer as the General Manager.
When Carroll closed HPM1 and opened HPM2...

HPM2 had Ray Wolff as the General Manager.

Here is another Yamaha 180 and '67 Shelby ad, same couple...note the upper scoop light on the car

Yes, that's the other one with a '67 Shelby

The photo may have been taken at LAX...
It looks like other '67s in the picture with much of the background cleared out for the ad copy.

That Yamaha ad is neat.

They did a couple with '67s Shelby's and at least one with a '66 Shelby
There are some with Cobras's...They must have had a CS / SAI connection.

[The car 'Imming1965' is working on was built at SJ 4/12/67 and completed by SAI 5/19/67]

car build date is actually 4/12/67 and not march as I stated, I was mistaken that scheduled date was 3/20/67, sorry for confusion...

The car 'Imming1965' is working on was built at SJ 4/12/67    and completed by SAI 5/19/67


R

thanks Rich for the clarification, I often wondered that...
     With all the variations of tail light panels and trim bezels and inner brackets, did any car with the raised panel come with stud version of trim ring? Or is that the same time they started using screw on type trim bezels? Because what I am seeing/working with, I cant make these stud version work with raised panel and shallow inner brackets that are supposed to be correct with raised panel.

It might be helpful to hear from others, but...

The survivor #0772 shows no trim screws with a flat tail light panel
The survivor #2310 shows the trim srcews with a raised tail light panel.

#0032 parts (photo from NVSAAC site, from many years ago, show the studs.
As an early SAI completed car it likely had a flat tail light panel.