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Wasn't the plant in the south somewhere?  Don't have that document handy at the moment

Sharonville, OH

Thanks for the clarification. Knew you would remember

I dont recall c6 trans tags being date coded but  a trans serial# instead i thought so was c4 trans tags date coded  as that tag is a B  (not an 8 ) in front of c11   so was that trans a c8zp-b id #

Here is an example from a 68 Mustang Shows the month and day of month and printed in reverse from earlier 65-66 tags

With all the sleuthing over the years has there even been a data base with cars actual build dates along with the corresponding "tag" dates for components like engine, trans, sheet metal. If not this could be an important look into Ford's practices. Problems etc. Of course on untouched "documented numbers matching cars". On the B2 forum they have found a few cars with blocks cast months before the car was built. What about components that are built a few days before car assy  when parts become bottle necks in the system. A factory with a shortage of 351C 2V engines in 1970 might see engine tag assy dates real close to the car's assy. I have heard stories of the 351C  2V in 1970 that is why I mention this. My friend owns a 70 Mach1 H-code original paint interior etc survivor with the 2V Cleveland in it. Just had it built at Roush and pulled 330HP on the dyno with a holley 2V on it. Jack showed up saw the performance and asked what was in the engine(cam pistons), what was done to the heads and asked them to use an adapter and put a 4 V on it. Pulled a lot more HP out of that engine. The way the heads were rebuilt, new guides installed and the ports "flash" ported was really interesting as it was done on a high tech laser machine and it did the job real fast. That is why Roush's quoted price to build the engine was much less than other "old" tech engine shops in the area when dealing with the canted valves.

I checked some other C4 tags and that date code is 8C11, would be followed by another number, assuming a shift code.  So, yes, March 11, 1968.

If the actual build date of the car was March 13, that would be very tight.

It is a 7+ hour drive from Cleveland to Metuchin for engine deliveries. Where were the trans made? There is no "8" in front of the C. There is a C8ZPB then C 1 1 then the bolt is possibly hiding a character and I'll have him pull the tag to see but appears to be a B. Even back then there was just in time deliveries. If a car is built early I would suspect more lead time on date components but if a car is built on time or late it could mean it was waiting for components and a trans is a component. Not unreal or impossible. Engine  tag says C2 but build on the engine itself is 2-27 by the assy stamp on the block. Both have the same codes on it.  Here is more fodder on the engine: The clips on the valve covers still had the BLUE paint on them. The engine appeared concours correct used dirty before it was tore down for the rebuild. The components are date coded also. Rods are Jan. He built a stroker so he kept all his original components so he has all the original rods pistons cranks and camshaft. All Ford. All date coded to a factory Feb build so I'm in my opinion it was an untouched engine and not a rebuild. This trans was specific  for a 302 Mustang only. How many 302 4V autos did they build in 1968? Next is to find the date codes on the casting. If Sharonville was the plant that produced the trans it is a 9 hour drive from that city to Metuchin.

  Putting the finishing touches on my 69 and I'm at the restoring instrument cluster stage. I know that I need a new ammeter silkscreen. Is the tach guy the only person does that. Would you use the Scott Drake instrument and clock panels, or would you have the originals restored? If restored, by whom? Anybody use the quartz clock that's available? How about instrument lights?  Thanks

I'd have them restored but cannot recommend anyone right now as I haven't had any done since 2008. Ray Azcue did my 68 Shelby along with the woodgrain and did a fantastic job but  he retired soon after but I made him the templates to do the painting after vacuum metalizing(chroming) the 69 clusters. I heard over the years his brother Tony took over. Ray was in Texas. I have a friend who is getting his cluster done right now locally and When he gets it back I can get you reports on how it came out. There are a few in our area and this might be the one he is using. https://www.vacuumorna-metal.com/content/restoration. They show 1969 dash pieces in their slide show.

C 11 is the date, so March 11... assume '68.  This lines up with the April castings on the block.

I'm not sure we will ever know for sure why those numbers are stamped there.  Maybe some other cars will turn up with something similar... and doesn't have to be Shelby's... Mustangs built around the time period would probably yield more samples to compare.

Thanks Charles. mid to late Feb castings on the block, heads.  March 2 on the engine tag(Feb 27 assy stamp on block). Trans tag is stamped march 11 or is that March 1 and the 1 is something else after that? March 11 would be 2 days  before car was assembled in Metuchin(Marti says March 13th). Too close? Are there cast dates on Automatic trans? While some seem to think I am missing some point I wonder if there are other cars out there and others are afraid to even bring it to light thinking they might have gotten the same responses I have gotten from a few here. Gary

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes

THE BLOCK ISN'T ORIGINAL TO THE CAR.

You seem to prefer the self flagellation method? 



There is an "acid method" that you probably should use here in this case on the block to see if there is an original stamping that was machined off?

I don't know how you do it but it has been "quoted" as used in other references in valuable theft recovery procedures.

Hmm can you prove that? That is the problem here. Acid method? HMM are you assuming someone somehow took original Ford stamped VIN numbers off of the block and trans case and somehow created a virgin surface when done 4-5 decades ago?  You don't have all the answers so the easy one  is to type in capitals it isn't original.....area machined? How many times do I have to say the engine has not been apart before? DATE CODES ALL MATCH.  Actually only 3 owners of the car. 1st one is dead. Second one pulled the dirty drive train out of it. So lets see the 50 year old first owner had the vin numbers machined off the surfaces and they would have to be in the 60s to early 70s as witness by the patina of the engine when pulled in the early 90s(was in his 70s when he sold the car). This isn't a car that has had 30 owners and had been restored 10 times. Just an anemic 302 auto Shelby that was used by the original owner from 1969 until he sold it to the second owner in 1994. Original Owner died in 1997 according to a Mi obit search using SAAC records on who the OO was.
Oh, yeah about machining. Pretty obvious that this aluminum transmission case area has never been machined so no reason for an acid test.

Love you guys,  hava a niice weekund

Biggie no matter what anyone ever tells you, it is never safe to get in the water

Just when we thought it was safe to get in the water.

Someone forgot to proof read their MEME before they made it. LOL

to be clear I was assuming you didn't make the MEME? Just shared it? 

MSC sells them. Here is a link to the 7" version but they have other sizes and a set also.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/32997447
Mike

Thank you Mike. Gary

Bottom was   left black when top was painted grey.

was that the primer that was used? Black?

[APPRECIATE]

Just an opinion, but it looks like the discussion has at least established the numbers on the block and trans are not something applied at one of the car plants in 1968 and for this car originally. Leaving us only with possibilities but no confirmation at this time and until we find another example marked in the same fashion

I know the prior owner of this car. Appears in the SWR as 1994 registering the car with SAAC. It was a dirty unrestored car with it's share of battle scars and some Mi rust when he bought it. The patina and prior owners the car had the original engine and trans. I am not sure of how many owners from new but it isn't more than 4 I think(second owner bought off of Wyoming  Mi owner and brought it to our area 130-140 miles from there to our area). I think around 65K miles when bought in 1994 and then torn apart and sat until my friend bought it. When my friend bought it the area was so grimy you could NOT see the numbers on the engine and trans so the prior owner who pulled the combo out of the car before he sent the car out for metal work never touched the engine or trans cleaning wise. When I first saw the car about a year before my friend bought it to me the engine had the patina of being the original especially the way it was dressed in Shelby trim and dirty as shown in my pic in a prior post. The seller who we knew had no reason to believe it wasn't the original engine. The prior owner owns 2 W -code 68 Cougar XR-7s and a 67 R-code Comet and knows his cars. I was hoping this post would bring some light to those numbers. If anything that looks to be a "order code" or invoice code of some sorts. We could have easily left those codes as a mystery and stamped the vin on the trans but that is not how we roll(I would NEVER restamp any engine or trans). We want to get to the bottom of this if possible. Looking at the warranty work on the car there is nothing to show anything to a replacement engine trans. Hit the dealer in May of 68.Work done at dealer on 10-31-68 with 4 miles on it. 4/14/69 car was sold new. 4/23/69 first owner warranty work for a window regulator at 417 miles. Car sat on dealer lot for over 11 months. I also think it isn't all that big of a deal on original engine trans but my friend with his stable of cars loves originality. So I told him I'd try my best to find out why this is like this and APPRECIATE all the input you guys have put it. Thanks. Gary

Well PEES is the correct type of trans

I think the tag also has a date code? But, I am not sure.

The components are correct, but saying they are original to the car I dont know?

I did notice some ghost stampings on that transmission too, but I cant provide an explanation

I see what appears to be C 11 then the bolt hides a character on the tag. Incidentally rebuilders generally do not reinstall tags after rebuilds or install their own tags and that is why with the engine and trans still sporting their original tags is interesting.  I saw what appears to be an 8 halfway over the zero and that is it. very light on an angle. the housing is virgin metal so obviously not a full stamp over a stamp with no other visible characters. I have checked out the block and trans surfaces for evidence of tampering of the surfaces and found none. Pics pretty well call that out.

Biggie no matter what anyone ever tells you, it is never safe to get in the water

Just when we thought it was safe to get in the water.

Someone forgot to proof read their MEME before they made it. LOL

Kevin replied and noted that there were no 400x series unit numbers for '68... so I guess we can scratch that.

With them being a different size than the normal partial VIN stamps, I guess we are back to the possibility of them being a rebuilder stamp or for some other use.

Guess one question that came to mind is if the car was ever out of the USA?

Thank you Charles for getting in touch with Kevin. No, the car has not traveled far. Sold new in Grandville Mi, then came to the east side of the state so all owners within a 200 mile radius. Here is the transmission tag pic. Not to beat a dead horse but the rebuilder-a longtime Ford expert who is around 80sh- said the engine was original and never rebuilt when he tore it apart. 60K mile car.

Strike was in late 67, very unlikely to have effected a February built car

Really one call to Marti should resolve which Fords used 400000 series numbers

Ford didn't. Don't need to call Marti. Just look at the Marti reports for 1968. He generally tells-but not always- "Vin 123456 "your Ford was the 23456th model made at that plant or 567890 "your Mercury was the 67890th model made at that plant. Enough Marti reports out there for Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos, Comets, Galaxies, Bronco and F-150s to show that.  Besides Marti has not been taking phone calls as they have been behind for some time not last I heard.  Here is what you would find for 1968 if you looked at the VIN plate. Hey I have learned a lot about this today.

I wonder if the ford strike that happened in 68 had anything to do with this car as the plant was shut down for awhile.

I could check Sheet Metal dates but March 13 build and later original quarters. So my latest research shows that the stamped numbers have no correlation to Mercury or Ford as it pertains to consecutive unit VIn numbers on cars. Trucks have only 5 consecutive numbers at the end.

I think Cougar vins start with 500,000

The focus is likely on other Ford products

The first two characters are likely not a Cougar bodycode in my opinion

Wayne plant for full size Galaxie platform started at 100000. Lorrain(Torinos) plant possibly 100000 and definitely not 400000. Atlanta plant 100000. Seems to be a pattern: 100000 for Fords and 500000 for Mercs. Google and Marti reports show this as well as BaT cars for sale.https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-mercury-comet-sports-coupe/ .