Messages

Many thanks, Benny. Thanks for the support. This is getting to be a real brain twister. One day, I will try to put it all together into one story board. If anyone is around SAAC 46, I will be there and would love to discuss it. I hope to have the new Gen IIB 3 hole wheel with me and will bring it to the banquet on Saturday night.

Here is what I think I know, so far: The first gen 3 hole (Gen IIA) wheels where the two smaller holes are smaller in diameter than Gen IIB may have been supplied up through 5S118 based on photographs. There may be some Gen IIA wheels with inconsistent hole spacing because they were hand drilled. All of the 3 hole wheels that I have seen were supplied with chrome plated hubs (AKA Boss) with at least one exception where it looks like there was one or some wheels supplied with aluminum hubs fitted with the original Gen I bolt pattern. The original early bolt pattern from the 16" Cobra wheels was uniform spacing (from what I think I know) whereas the wheels supplied with the chrome plated hubs had wider spacing at the top of the wheel bolt pattern. I am looking for hard evidence and more detail.

The holes on the Gen IIA wheels measured in diameter approximately as follows: 0.89", 0.63", 0.48". (Thank you Scott Evans)
The Gen IIB wheels measured approximately as follows: .835", .665", .615" (Measured myself and confirmed on the original drawings). (Thank you Rich Williams for the loan of the original wheel)

Here are photos of each example and one of original manufacturer (FYI, I will be at Sonoma and would be happy to discuss this topic and receive more enlightenment. With luck, I will have the new wheel made on the original tooling with me.) Photos courtesy of Dave McDonald and now defunct World of Speed.

I expect these new wheels to be available for purchase within the next few weeks direct from the manufacturer. More to follow.

Benny, thanks for this. Excellent. First guess is this is a Gen IIA wheel with the early size holes. Hard to tell for sure.

FYI, I just learned that the first 3 hole wheels were drilled on a drill press. This meant that they were not all uniform from wheel to wheel or maybe on any given wheel. I have seen photos of early wheels with holes that looked a bit off on a given wheel. I could not measure them but it would be great to have that info. The Gen IIB wheels were stamped on a press and the wheel I am getting and the subsequent wheels that will soon be available for sale are stamped using the original tooling and, believe it or not, original wood from the original inventory. They will be more uniform. I received the first wheel a couple of weeks ago and the workmanship was superb but it was damaged in shipping so I am waiting for another. I will be at SAAC 46 with the new wheel if all goes well.

This one looks like the first gen 3 hole wheel which I am calling Gen IIA with Gen I being the 16" wheel.

Am still looking for period photos taken back in the day showing steering wheels installed on Shelbys.

Thanks

Color version of 114

Thanks, Charles. This seems to be the first of the three hole wheels. For my communication purposes with the manufacturer, we are calling this one on 114 "Gen 2A" and the other three hole wheel "Gen 2B" with the early 16" split wheel with slotted spokes being "Gen 1" and the later 15" wheel with slotted spokes being "Gen 3". We are also aware that there were different thicknesses of wood produced at different times with no recorded history of precise dimensions. But, we are still digging.

Everyone keep in mind that my original goal was to get a correct reproduction wheel for my 5S243 and in the process, I made the discoveries. I am also on a quest to find a decent Chrome plated pot metal hub.

In summary and for my internal records with the manufacturer and my collaborators and knowing that there may be other variants yet to be discovered:

Gen 1 = 16" slotted wheel split in the middle
Gen 2A = 15" three hole wheels with hole size and pattern like 114 and 117 that I have seen photos of. Gen 2A holes measure approximately* as follows: .480, .630, .890 inches.
Gen 2B = 15" three hole wheel that has hole size and pattern like this one shown from Rich Williams. This one seems to be the most prevalent of the 3 hole wheels. Gen 2B holes measure approximately* as follows: .623, .660, .830 inches.
Gen 3 = 15" slotted wheel installed somewhere after / around 256

Note: I have been told that a very few cars were supplied with prototypes of what became the 66 optional wood rim 4 hole wheel.

* I say approximately because hole diameter precision in the manufacturing process was not that important back in the day. Plus, I have personally only measured two of the 2B wheels with input from others on the 2A wheels.

From what I have seen in print and from SAAC officials this is the history of the steering wheels:

"001 to about 113 had the 16-inch Cobra 289, slotted, wood wheel with the aluminum hub.
109 - 256 for the most part had the slightly flatter dished 15-inch wood wheel with three holes present per spoke with the chrome plated steel hub.
257 - 562 had the 15-inch slotted wood wheel with chrome steel hub."

A few updates to this quoted info: I have been told that the hubs were chrome plated pot metal, not steel. We also now know for sure that there were at least 2 versions of the 3 hole wheel. More to come as I discover it.

FYI, Springall says they will make a small run of both the 2A and 2B wheels. Mine needs the 2B so that is my focus.

If you really want to get into the detail, the wheels from that part of our history were made from strips of wood (mostly mahogany) bent and laid up circumferentially around the rim in a hoop manner and all glued together in a kind of mold. They were then cut and installed onto the stamp-pressed aluminum frame with rivets. The driver would then be facing the beautiful edges of the wood. The repros that I have seen lately are laminated front to back like plywood such that the laminations can only be seen from the edges or where the contour has been carved. It is this specific issue that got me started when I purchased what I thought was a correct wheel from a respected supplier and they told me they do not make wheels with circumferential strips any longer. Another interesting point of blurred history is that the circumferential strip method was performed by a company called Coventry Timber Bending (quaint, yes?) and it is thought that they supplied the laid up blanks and perhaps complete wheels to many of the early wheel makers as early as 1938 for many of the elegant cars and boats of the day.

Here is a close up of the back side of the switch. I am not sure if one can state emphatically this is an R or a B. I would love to see other evidence of this logo displayed on another product from anyone, Raydyot, Bulgin, Arcolectric, or whomever made it. I do know that the Arcolectric and Bulgin switch bodies from that period were both made from bakalite like this one and have the same exact threads on them. I have examples of them.

I have seen this photo before but the logo does not match what you see on the back side of the "original" switch, whoever made them. Note this one looks to be all plastic just like the Atzbach switch.

It would be interesting to me to see a Raydyot logo on any Raydyot item of any kind that looks like the "B" or "R" on the back side of these switches. In my hunt, I found a seller of Mini parts in the UK who stated the Raydyot switches were made by Arcolectric of England who is owned by Bulgin of UK. Vintage Arcolectric and the B type switches share the same thread size and pitch as does the Atzbach all plastic switch. Nowhere in any of my searches for Raydyot have I seen a Raydyot logo that looks like the logo on the back side of the switch. If there is something out there, it would be fun to see it. If we could determine who really made those switches for Raydyot, then we might be a step closer to the grail.

Thanks, Bob. Mine was a poor rattle can black. The paint comes off with very mild water soluble paint stripper so I shall see what is underneath. I can only guess that the tank was bought over the counter from Shelby very soon after the purchase as they prepped it for the Mexican rally. Wish I knew who prepped it. Somewhere in LA. No records from Howard Pardee on it.

Mine was installed right after the car was purchased and the hole for the hose was straight down and through the floor. I filled it half way because it was what I could to to keep the seal from leaking. They are known to leak. As a restored car, I will probably never have a need to fill it to 34 gallons but before I re-install it, I do intend to figure out how to get a better seal where the bucket joins the tank.

BTW, does anyone know if the tanks were painted black or were they originally bare galvanized? Thanks

It all helps. Thanks for that.

Thanks for the detail. Your switch has a metal stem and plastic threads. Later ones that I was told were replacements had the same metal stem but with metal threads - agreed? Both have what looks like a "B" logo on the back side plus they both have screw on connections. Does anyone know if the B is Bulgin switch co in the UK? Of interest for some is that Arcolectric made a very similar switch (also bakalite body and same orientation connections but push on or solder on vs screw on) and is now owned by Bulgin. Might Bulgin (or whatever the B company was) be the supplier to Raydyot? I discovered the Bulgin / Arcolectric connection because I am searching for the chrome bezel nut with correct imperial threads. Readily available present day Lucas switches are close but do not thread properly which leads me to believe they are metric threads. The all plastic switches like the Atzbach and one I have also have the exact same thread as the "B" switch and the vintage Arcolectric switch. So, there must be some proper fit chrome bezel nuts out there somewhere. I post this because some of you may be looking for a bezel nut that fits. My thread gauge says the threads on the B and Arcolectric are 32 TPI. My calipers say the outside diameter of the male thread is .456" and the inside dia of the correct nut I have is .425" which I do not find as a standard thread profile. Anybody know what the thread call out is? Thanks

Thanks, so much. email coming shortly.

Wellsir, cannot be any newer than 1977 when the book was published. So, yes, could be some newer stuff but no newer than 1977. Anything specific you can identify? Thanks

I am looking for as many as I can find of original, taken back in the day, period photos showing the 65 Shelby 3 hole steering wheel. The attached photo was found in Shelby's Wild Life but I need more. If you can identify when the photo was taken and what car it is, that would be great. I am getting very close to having an authentic reproduction of the original 3 hole wheels. A prototype has already been made on the original tooling but there are a few things left to confirm. Thanks