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Messages - Dan Case

#526
SAAC Forum Discussion Area / Re: Service Replacement
February 20, 2018, 06:03:49 PM
I'll take a shot at a shortened version of what I send to Cobra owners and restorers. I have been around the "restoration" of old cars since 1961 and got my first training on 'this is original and that is not' during that summer at a national Antique Automobile Club of America meet (they were meets back then not shows).


Genuine parts pulled from production runs at the time the car was built for service needs. They were New Stock (NS) at that point in time and sometime later they were considered New Old Stock (NOS). As soon as some reason changed them such that the "original" design, revision level, or version is not made anymore NS becomes NOS. Prior to the 1960s up Corvette and Mustang owners getting into the business a New Old Stock (NOS) 1963 (pick a part) part was actually made in 1963 during production runs and it was just fate that directed it to miss an assembly line and get into a service part package. In industry, almost any large scale industry including automotive ones, between 5% and 20% of parts made during the original production period are set aside for normal service and warrantee work. The more likely the part will fail or be damaged or worn out the higher the percentage is often set aside and distributed through the service channel. Most big companies have engineers that determine risks and likelyhood of requirements. These are "assembly line" parts because they are what the car assembly lines used. In America, large numbers of "lunch pail" parts left the plants of part makers and car assemblers. What does one plan to do with dozens of new engine ground wires that accidently found their way back to your house? (I used that example because a few weeks ago on a trip to Michigan I came across a cache of engine ground wires that walked away circa 1964.)  Sometimes part over runs get left over at the assembly lines or the supplier's plant and the O.E.M. doesn't want them. These "assembly line" parts often end up in the hands of parts dealers. A friend of mine, at the end of each production year, use to buy at pennies on the dollar left over Corvette parts from the St. Louis assembly plant and their suppliers and then sold them through his parts business. Note: Because of design level changes, different suppliers for different assembly plants, and supplier changes all "assembly line" parts even within a given year are not automatically all the same.



An OEM service part made for an earlier application. This use to be the New Replacement Stock (NRS) designation. This was maybe a 1965 design/revision part being sold to service let's say a 1963 car. After these parts get a couple years old they are New Old Replacement Stock (NORS). These may or may not be the original supplier, tooling, manufacturing processes, and or materials. They "will work". The vast majority of old new parts you are likely to come across will probably fit into this category.  This is let's say Ford having runs of 1965 Mustang front bumpers made as required for many years after the last new 1965 Mustang left an assembly line. The day they were made they are NRS and after some period of time they become NORS.  Major car makers must supply something that works for in most cases ten years. The industry I worked in had to supply parts that would work for seven years. The important details were that the original specifications didn't have to be met unless it had safety or emissions requirements, that warrantee didn't have to be the same, didn't have to use the same tools or methods, didn't have to use the same materials, didn't have to use the same supplier / maker, and didn't even have to be made in the same country.  Replacement parts could be made just like "originals" but they didn't have to be. Said another way, same sales number between let's say a April 1965 made part and a April 1975 made part but other than fit the application and work they didn't have to legally be the same. I use an example: 1966 MUSTANG GT350 fuel caps. By the late 1970s they were obsolete from Ford's service organization. One person started a campaign to bring them back. He started ordering caps from at least one Ford dealer. He advertised in print for as many people were interested in new caps to do the same. It took a while but with enough back orders Ford commissioned runs of caps to be made. The "new" caps came in blue and white Ford service packaged and under casual inspection looked 'original'. Then people started comparing the NRS caps with originals still on cars and figured out that the NRS ones were not a 100% match to "assembly line" parts.  Today those replacement fuel caps made in the late 1970s and beyond are NORS parts.


#527
Quote from: Cobra Ned on February 20, 2018, 11:03:21 AM
Dan, I've got 3073 stamped on the collar just inboard of the steering box on my COX car. The corresponding collar on the right is obscured and I can't get close enough to read it.

Thanks Ned. That is the main part of the LH Drive assembly number stamped on the unit. There should be an assembly date close by. The number in the AC Cars and Ford/Shelby Bill Of Material is one character longer than that for some reason. Cam Gears Ltd provided the rack and pinion units, intermediate shaft assemblies, and the steering column assembly less switches (AC Cars added switch gear).  The hole in may database is the model number of the RH Drive assembly.

I do collect assembly dates of any original production rack I come across.
#528
CSX 2000 Series / Re: American Racing Wheels for Cobras
February 18, 2018, 04:56:47 PM
Quote from: CSX2259 on February 18, 2018, 02:53:03 PM
The hidden lug nut style wheel backside would look like the third photo down, the bolts threaded into the wheel itself.

+1 The designs were bolts threaded into magnesium or into long shank lug steel nuts.

When the prototype 1965 MUSTANG GT350 race car was first completed and tested (SFM5R002) it also used the same lug nuts. When research for that car's restoration was in progress I reverse engineered the design into a set of drawings for the restoration team in case they didn't find any new old stock ones or enough new old stock ones. These are the general views I created but they illustrate the threading in the nuts.

The washers are captured. They have to be pressed on but will free turn once in the undercuts made for them.



#529
CSX 2000 Series / Re: American Racing Wheels for Cobras
February 18, 2018, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: werthie on February 18, 2018, 01:38:43 PM
Good article, Dan . . . Thank you!

alan
csx2563


Thank you and you are welcome.
#530
CSX 2000 Series / American Racing Wheels for Cobras
February 18, 2018, 11:35:03 AM
A question came up on another forum about the optional (street and race) magnesium wheels with steel 'spline drive' adapters available for new Cobras.  I thought that my response would be interesting to some on this site also.


Shelby American Inc. offered "spline drive" magnesium wheels made by American Racing as street and racing options. There were two design types, the original with 'hidden lugs' and the revised with 'exposed lugs'. Both wheel assembly designs incorporated steel adapters bolted in from the rear of the wheel and steel sleeves on the outboard side to be hard wear surfaces for standard AC logo center lock "knock off" nuts. All wheels were for 15" diameter tires.

Cobra wise buyers could get widths between 6.0 and 8.5 inches with the 6.0 models being unique to Shelby American and Cobras. American Racing added 6.5 through 8.5 inches wide models to their aftermarket catalogs.

6.0 inches wide wheels generally work without coachwork modifications on all four corners. A popular combination was 6.0 inches wide front and 7.0 inches wide in rear. 7.0 inches wide wheels in rear and or extra large tires could require modification of wings depending on the particular chassis as some coachwork width variation was normal.

An additional strengthening revision was made at some point but I don't know when, a rib was added inside each wheel spoke. See the image of the reverse side of a WHEEL below.

Neither assembly design type was light weight as compared to any of the 'pin drive' magnesium wheels Shelby American used.

Street and road racing wise the first 'hidden lug' design assembly proved generally satisfactory durability wise. The first design was not good on the rear for drag racing as the lug bolts tended to wallow out the magnesium they were threaded into. The solution was the 'exposed lug' revision whereby acorn type 'lug nuts' and the bolts captured the hub of the magnesium wheel between them. The second Shelby works "Dragonsnake" used the new design exposed lug wheels.

This wheel is 8.50 wide and was used for many years on the rear of a Cobra but it illustrates the 'hidden lugs.


This is a new old stock 6.0 wide made specifically for Cobras 'exposed lug' wheel I once owned shown front and reverse side.




Most wheels were used as delivered by American Racing. There were at least two cars outfitted with hidden lug wheels that had their outboard sides completely mirror polished.




Some old unrestored wheels on unrestored Cobras had stickers like these on them.




Dan
#531
SAAC Forum Discussion Area / Re: Spacer Plate
February 14, 2018, 03:50:27 PM
Quote from: gt350hr on February 14, 2018, 03:44:01 PM
   Rob,
       It is a "somewhat" generic spacer used on a variety of FE and 351 W engines. Like Dan said they are somewhat rare these days as the tube often breaks out and many have been scrapped They are nice in the fact that they are  about 1/4" thick , phenolic and have the PCV tube aimed out the back unlike the Boss 302 like Bill mentioned.  As I'm sure you know the "K" code engines used a 1" thick , die cast aluminum spacer that also had a PCV port in the back.
    Randy

For those that don't know there was not "a" 4V spacer for 289s but a family of them with engineering changes along the way all the way into modern service parts quite different than anything used in production. 1963 parts are HP289 only. 1964 onward are just 4V applications with let's see four versions used in 1964-65 alone. 1963 HP289 ones are hard to come by, not super rare but people just don't put them up for sale that often.
#532
SAAC Forum Discussion Area / Re: Spacer Plate
February 14, 2018, 03:31:49 PM
It is a C2AZ-9A589-E part. Extremely rare these days. If you put up for sale please let me know.
#533
Wanted To Buy

Original only wanted. I have a really nice used carburetor except its assembly tag is missing. A tag stamped C3AF-S level A dated 2HE (or close to that date) would be most interesting.

Thanks for looking. Dan
#534
Quote from: werthie on January 28, 2018, 01:35:37 AM
CSX2563 on the 2010 Cobra 1000 Tour through Wyoming, Idaho and Montana

Looks like you got cheated out of a snow ride like the 2017 tour.
#535
CSX2310 during its 2011 Tail of The Dragon ride.



CSX2551 at the end of summer in 2017


#536
News from HQ / Re: Welcome back...
January 20, 2018, 02:22:49 PM
Thanks for all the work it took.

I will speak for myself here but this is a chance to leave behind older information that was not up to the current state of understanding / documentation. Even technical posts I have made in the past needed to be revised or an update added as the data bases got added to and scrubbed from time to time. Even if the last post in a thread, even one I started, brought readers up to date days, weeks, or all the way to years later it was still somewhat confusing at times to go through outdated information first and that assumes readers took the time to read every post in order AND get to the updated end.
Dan
#537
If you have an original COB/COX60xx  'AC Cobra' (leaf spring suspension chassis) or COB/COX61xx '289 Sports' (coil spring suspension chassis) car that retains its original rack and pinion steering assembly and you don't mind sharing information, what is the assembly number stamped into one of the aluminum rack housing assemble end castings?

If you don't want to reply in the forum but are agreeable to sharing, please e-mail me or send a private message.

Thanks.
Dan