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It's a much longer answer than I have time for right now, however the street C8FE vs. T/A C8FE vs. the Tunnelport C8FE differences are numerous and include metallurgy as well as physical differences. I have had all three.
John

Of course how will they know how many miles you have driven? GPS transponders in your cars and trucks? How much more will Trucking cost? Will they audit your vehicle transponder by using your cell phone location?
Yes paranoid attitudes are my hobby.
John

I wouldn't be in it for the information. By then I will already have positively identified the culprit. Perhaps my methods would, instead, be for some other insidious purpose...
Ironically it was a Luftwaffe Commandant who adopted the friendly questioning method as far more effective which sorta became a guidebook for the CIA.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Scharff

Hanns Scharff, a German WWII pilot interrogator, is considered the most successful interrogator of all time. In fact, he was so successful, he helped in shaping the U.S. interrogation techniques after the war. But how did he do it?

According to his own words, Scharff developed several techniques that helped him in his interrogations. First of all, instead of torturing or degrading prisoners, Scharff offered them courtesy and what appeared to be consideration. Instead of attempting to coerce or persuade with offers of booze and prostitutes, Scharff and his fellow officers took prisoners to whatever cinema shows were available at camp, and even shared tea and coffee with them, when they could get it.

According to Scharff, Prisoner of War (POW) interrogations should consist of three phases. First is to help the POW relax and feel comfortable by making small talk about anything at all. Second, after he's loosened up, the questioner should try to get the prisoner to reveal any military information or plans that he might know, ideally without letting him realize he has said anything of value. Third, the interrogator must write an evaluation report that is truthful, and that contains any and all information that might be useful to commanding officers in the field.

"So why did you sell a Shelby part you never owned? More tea?"

Deathsled,
As a huge fan of WW2 history anytime I can find a shiny distraction that attracts my interest I follow it. Thank you, your link to Hanns Scharff led me to the article. The article presented me with the rabbit hole on Lt. Martin J. Monti. The rabbit hole on Lt. Martin J. Monti led me to the rabbit hole on the Zirkus Rosarius, Mildred Gillars, Rita Zucca, (both of them Axis Sallys), United States Penitentiary, Leavenworth which led to Japanese American conscientious objectors, and then I realized I was lost down multiple rabbit holes and I wondered how I got where I am at. But it was a great morning mindtrip..... Thank you. I hope to return the favor someday.
John

I can not think of any reason that I would sell below market value for my cars. I have instructed my wife to wait at least a year before selling anything. Also like the Godfather suggests never take the advice of the first person who offers to help her with the liquidation of any of our assets. (We also have a good guy/bad guy list for her to reference and we keep up with the values and note them on an Excel spreadsheet that my daughter and I keep updated.

There is no reason to give anything away.
John

[The modified package sitting next to a concours engine package to show the package size comparison.]

what is a cross boss and manifold worth? my friend has one.

As with everything condition, condition, condition is a big determination in the value of the CROSS BOSS intake and carburetor. In addition to that which carburetor the D0ZX-9510-A (875 CFM) the D0ZX-9510 (1425 CFM) brings a lot to the table. The "B" carburetor is useless on the open plenum CROSS BOSS intake manifold. So if you have a "B" carburetor and the single four intake manifold you find yourself shopping for the "A" carburetor. I have heard stories about these carburetors being NOS but spent the best part of the last 50 years on display not in the best environment and having slight corrosion on the insides of them. A few have been abused, so even being brand new doesn't necessarily make them usable. Typically it is best to have your carburetor prepared for use by Kelly Coffield. He supports all the spare parts you would need.

As for the bigger "B" carburetors they are happy used in an IR application.
John


As an update to this thread and since this litle project grew out of the tuning of Mark's BOSS 302. I thought I'd share some pictures of a system that Kelly and I are putting together, Not to produce, but as a proof of concept piece as to what FoMoCo should have done with the BOSS 302 and IR Autolite Inline Carburetors. Anyway it is a project that Kelly Coffield and I wanted to explore after conversations regarding Mark Hovander's BOSS 302 CROSS BOSS tuning. So Kelly cast up the intake, The front cover and several other supporting pieces. Where as I'm supplying the engine, and building the internal parts for the extended distributor drive and the oil pump drive unit. The concept is to use only items that were available in 1970.

Picture #1 is;
The modified package sitting next to a concours engine package to show the package size comparison.

Picture#2 is;
Due to the shorty water pump being used the extended timing cover size difference is only 7/16" longer

Picture #3 is;
The height of the carburetor mounting pads are level on the Autolite Inline intake, the front of the factory intake is lower than the height of the Autolite Inline intake but the rear of the Autolite Inline intake is lower than the factory intake.

Picture #4 is;
The difference between the straight edge on the stock water pump pulley mounting flange to the shorty pump water pump flange pulley.

Here is a link to the BOSS302 Registry where the more complete story resides. Including links to videos and the Hemmings story regarding casting the intake and parts.
https://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=88291.0

Great pix, thanks for posting.  How'd the car run after the install?

Adequately, quite adequately.
John

As to the fuel bowl, a Helicoil insert could be installed. It would require someone that is proficient in the use of the inserts. I would think that green Loc-Tite would be used to secure the insert into the fuel bowl. There is a minimal amount of threads actually in that area. I have seen this many times, typically the cause is over tightening the float level lock nut.

The "problem" seems to be that the vacuum diaphragm turns the arm when it is actuated.

I don't see how that possibly could be since the diaphragm is firmly mounted within the housing and has no rotational capabilities?

That is what happens when the diaphragm is installed slightly twisted instead of aligned with the pin 90 degrees to the slot.
John

Great pix, thanks for posting.  How'd the car run after the install?

We are tuning it right now, hopefully soon it will be just fine.
John

Here are original pictures Mark took when he and his friends were first installing the CROSS BOSS on his car.


CROSS BOSS Picture #01


CROSS BOSS Picture #02


CROSS BOSS Picture #03


CROSS BOSS Picture #04


CROSS BOSS Picture #05


CROSS BOSS Picture #06


CROSS BOSS Picture #07


CROSS BOSS Picture #08


CROSS BOSS Picture #09

Mark can write his own captions based on the picture numbers
John

As to original stripe kits, last year I purchased and installed a 35 year old FoMoCo stripe kit on my 1969 BOSS 302. It took care in the preparation of the stripe kits, my wife set them up in the guest room and took 2 weeks to straighten them out. The first three to four days there was no weight on them, then some of those air pillows that amazon ships things in. Following that she put a small magazine on the sections of the stripes that were still raised. Ultimately the stripes on the installation day were ready, these are the huge 1969 stripes down to the thin stripes on the rear decklid. I've had no issues with the glue.
John

Awesome article, Mark's car is a great story, every detail and dent is awesome.
John

Don't get lost in just points, bushings are one of the most overlooked problem items in older distributors.
John

  Kelly Koeffel (sp) has a picture of a manifold for Webers that "I" believe was destined for that engine. It is "not" like any other I have ever seen except for the carburetor mounting pads. The Indy program had two potential sizes based on the same block. 305 and 320 neither made it to the track.

     While the hair is turning color it is STILL THERE unlike many of our associates. LMAO.

Kelly, thorn in my side, Koefeld? Everytime I tried to buy an Autolite inline, he got there first then wanted $3500 to sell it to me. That guy?

I had the HARD part to get, the Doug Nash split manifold machined for the Autolites. Bummer, but that's another story.


I honestly don't know what manifolds he has because he was buying them up at any price seemingly.
What I think you are refering to is the manifold he made for fuel injection? That one got rifle bored and the throttle bodies installed right into the manifold.

Injector ports right into  the manifold. The thought was to have an eight stack system that would fit under the screen.

I haven't heard from Kelly in about 5 years. He must have sold all of his castings. He had a 68 GT500. Don't know if he still does.

Kelly Coffield,
Good guy, I talk with him often. Once upon a time I worked in the shop for Dwight Thorn, people used to tell me that they were so tired of Dwight buying up ALL of the Rolls Royce and Packard Merlin engines and parts. Well the reality was if people had extra engines and parts they would call Dwight and offer to sell to him. I've talked with Kelly and he has told me he gets cold calls about people looking to turn their carburetors into cash. One story two people, each with their own side. Call him, tell him what you are doing. I can PM you his number.
John

   Scott ,
       The 351 (XE 9.2 deck version) was made in iron and aluminum as you know and was "funded" by the GT 40/Can Am program. The 351C aluminum block program was done for the '69 Indy effoert headed by nearby resident Henry "Smokey" Yunick. When the program fell apart , the "inventory" was sent to H&M Charlotte for "sale" Dyno bought the stuff from them. Ford DID give him five or six iron SK 351C blocks with "square" cylinders but core shift was excessive and to the point where they were unusable. After the Factory backed Pinto effort , Don was "on his own" , with ZERO help from Ford.
   Randy

I've known Randy for 40+ years and this has been a constant theme. Randy will turn on a lightbulb with a fairly simple comment leaving you to wonder if he turned the bulb on with purpose. (Usually that is the case.)

In this case I was bemoaning the inconsistent quality of the low production rare alloy castings. Randy once again brings up the universal principal "How did it get paid for?", "What group was funding it?", Who's authority was okaying the pattern making, the quantity, the tooling and research budget? Of course once an item makes it out of the well maybe this direction is a good direction to go, well then better more consistent castings are approved.

John

OK. Randy is always "colorful" You won't always get what you were asking about but you will get something interesting to the point of being fascinating.
He has the ability to put things in human terms that otherwise I would have just given up on and kept wondering about. So it's always fun to get his reply. Rarely boring.

I'll throw my wrench in the works now and take the thread further off course. I'm good at that. No need to thank me. Did an intake for the 351c aluminum Indy block ever get made or never quite get to it?

I've heard discussion about the 351c Australian blocks having a lot of core shift and being put in production truck engines in Australia.

Were the aluminum versions cast from the HD block molds with the thicker bulkheads or just the regular molds?


I actually had my first D2AE 4 bolt block that came out of a wrecked Pantera. The shop I brought it to for boring told me never to come back again. Seems they thought I had a special block since he had to sharpen his cutters several times in over boring it. He said I screwed him?

He said that's what all the xxxxyyyy's meant in the lifter galleries but I think he was just used to doing the soft iron Chevy blocks vs. Fords with their higher nodular content? I don't know . Never went back to him again.


I actually expected your Boss 2-4 to be a version of the Shelby Autosport manifold. As I recall, Randy gave that one a poor rating?

Doug,
No the Shelby 2x4 BOSS 302 intake manifold moved the carburetors back to clear the distributor, the Shelby intake also has longer ports in the rear, as well as being tilted front to rear. The Shelby intake manifold is better than the stock intake, not hard. I have obsessed for most of my adult life on the "other" 1969 2x4 intake and have owned several prior to the one in the picture in the last post. Randy and I had discussed the standard flange intake manifold for many years. Occasionally he would tell me that he would sell me his when he was done with it.....he spoke so highly of it that eventually I just had to go on a unicorn hunt. By careful evaluation I was able to find 10 of the intakes in the known world. After another year of talking to different people who owned them I finally listened to the advice of the late great Dave Zeuschel, "There is no obstruction to big that you can't fix with cash." I advertised for the intake that I was searching for someone willing to sell me one, name the price. The price is not to be revealed, the deal I made with my wife is not to be revealed. My deal did not set the price or value of that intake manifold, it simply reflected what in that micro-second in time was the pain threshold I was willing to endure to have that intake. Holman Moody also made an intake manifold similar to the Shelby BOSS  302 2x4.

P.S. this standard flange intake manifold also requires the offset distributor to clear the carburetors.
John

I feel your pain. You are speaking of love and love is not a rational thing. I also think that it is some kind of a viral infection with mostly symptoms of pain, but that's another story.

I suppose that it is not possible to know every intake that was made but I suspect that many were, just not seen by anyone but the tool makers?


H&M is part of that formula. They made A LOT of manifolds that any of us ever saw.

I SUSPECT that there is a T/A type 2x4 intake for the 351c somewhere. It's said that the Detomaso version of the 48ida Weber manifold was built by H&M, Ford paid for it, and unfortunately shipped the molds to Italy?

Lots of stuff got made in those 'Carolina hills besides 'shine.


I had a "Ford Motosport" A331 intake. It looked normal on the outside but had 302-4v size ports. It was heavy because of all the extra metal cast into it. I suppose that wasn't cheating to them?

Doug,
Over the years I have seen BOSS 302 intakes that have had the snouts cut off of the front of them and been used with spacers for a 351C build. I've owned a 2x4 Dominator intake that had been welded up with adapters on the carburetor pads that had been used for 351C stuff in Australia and New Zealand. So I think that was taken into mind when FoMoCo had an intake for a program that was over that could adapt that easily.. Besides the world was changing, FoMoCo was getting out of racing, Joe Boghosian told me that one of the higher ups came to the track where they were testing and said get rid of this stuff. He went to get a couple of box trailers and loaded them up. NASCAR 427 engines and parts, Indy DOHC motors, BOSS motors, just load em up and get out. Engineers moved to emissions programs, the world had changed and the Cleveland got screwed.
John