What a oil is recommended for use in an original 32,000 mile 428??
What oil is recommended for use in a rebuilt engine with 5000 miles?
I prefer Brad Penn. I presume you have a flat tappet cam. The Brad Penn/ Penn Grade is the odd green oil. You won't have to buy the zinc additive either.
I'm is Australia so we don't have that oil being sold here.
I'm more after the recommended weight of the oil 10w 40 or 20w 50 etc for an original 32000 mile motor?
I would use Valvoline Racing 20W-50 in warm weather. If you drive in winter maybe a 10W-30 VR will be more appropriate. Look at the recommendations in the owners manual for best results and use a brand of oil that has ZDDP in it if you cannot buy Valvoline Racing oil.
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 09, 2020, 04:31:43 AM
I'm is Australia so we don't have that oil being sold here.
I'm more after the recommended weight of the oil 10w 40 or 20w 50 etc for an original 32000 mile motor?
This has been touched on a few times over the years so I will give my overview of parts for our cars. Not to come off as a smart ass but lets go back 50 plus years ago and look at what was being used then. These cars with these engines 289, 302, 351, 390, 428, were produced in the millions upon millions. They didn't require special anything... 30 weight oil was the standard back then, and this is when these cars were used on a regular basis and went 100,000 miles relatively trouble free. Now most of our cars are used on a infrequent occasional basis which is even better for longevity. So a quick answer would be what ever is on sale at your local auto parts store. Many people like to run 20 dollar a quart racing oil, 20 dollar a gallon race gas, race plugs, carbs, tires you name it because it is expensive they feel it is better. Street cars don't need these items but if you feel it is necessary to buy the race stuff it will possibly make you feel better but these cars wont run any better in stock trim. Just my 2 cents.....
I use 10W40 in a Vavoline, year round here in Hot Texas USA. I don't use the racing oil, just regular 10W40. The racing oils leave out a lot of the detergents because, hey, racers change their oil after most races so sludge buildup isn't an issue. My cars sit....more than they should. So I want a higher detergent. For a time, I was using Shell Rotella (Diesel) oil as it has high detergent (diesels love to dirty their diaper...I mean oil) and also had the Zinc. Well here in the USA, they dropped the zinc in the Shell. SO, back to Vavoline for my yearly oil change. I found that my local store also has a Lucas Oil additive which is high Zinc. It is the pint of "Lucas Break In additive". It's not cheap and you should allow for the pint it will add to your oil capacity.
Just another option.
Also, not sure if you have NAPA auto parts stores in Australia, but the NAPA branded oil....read the fine print. "Refined by Ashland Oil Refinery". Ashland IS Valvoline. So when I was saying "Vavoline", it is the NAPA branded.
I've also used the Castrol High Mileage oil as some reports had it testing well.
I'm running exactly what Royce offered as advice. Used the VR1 for a long long time. It has the Zinc and you can buy it discounted in 5q bottles.
I run Shell Formula 10w40 and add my own ZDDP so I know it is in there.
Usually Redline or one of the other brand name ZDDP additives. I use Shell since that what the PO ran during his ownership, and he believed the PO told him the same thing. I also like the detergent package that Shell has.
I'm sure some of the specialized oil distributors contents are accurate, but like a friend schooled me long ago.... I don't trust them, I'll put it in myself and then I know it's in there. I certainly could not disagree with him.
+ 1
We use Mobil 1. synthetic 15W50 that has zinc in it
Once a year oil change
Quote from: 427heaven on March 09, 2020, 09:54:54 AM
This has been touched on a few times over the years so I will give my overview of parts for our cars. Not to come off as a smart ass but lets go back 50 plus years ago and look at what was being used then. These cars with these engines 289, 302, 351, 390, 428, were produced in the millions upon millions. They didn't require special anything... 30 weight oil was the standard back then, and this is when these cars were used on a regular basis and went 100,000 miles relatively trouble free. Now most of our cars are used on a infrequent occasional basis which is even better for longevity. So a quick answer would be what ever is on sale at your local auto parts store. Many people like to run 20 dollar a quart racing oil, 20 dollar a gallon race gas, race plugs, carbs, tires you name it because it is expensive they feel it is better. Street cars don't need these items but if you feel it is necessary to buy the race stuff it will possibly make you feel better but these cars wont run any better in stock trim. Just my 2 cents.....
VR1 20-50 is a good "off the shelf" oil available most anywhere. Engines already "broken in" do not require the same high levels of ZDDP as the camshaft has already been broken in so a lower zinc level oil can be used. "Original " engines ( still running AS BUILT) were "designed" for 30 wt conventional oil and at 32,000 is what I would look for. Hotter climates can use 40W. IF you can't get a "single weight" oil , 20-50 is the closest thing. Oil for a non racing application is pretty straight forward. "I" stay away from synthetics except in "modern" ('85 up ) engines built around the 5-20 style oils. I have used Mobile 1 without ANY issue. The particular brand is user choice. Oils are blended to a "specification" strictly adhered to so there is little difference but it does vary a bit in thermal viscosity change.
"Race" engines have more stringent requirements.
Mobil 1 of today is not the Mobil 1 of the '70s. It has been reformulated and the ZDDT content reduced. You need to read the contents on the can. I think that the 20-50 is the "old" zddt content, whereas the 10-40 was reduced.
I found that STP in the blue can contains a substantial quantity of the stuff whereas the 10-40 was reduced.
After suffering a couple of cam lobe failures I suspect that maybe the issue is that you don't really know at what point the cam is entirely "broken in"?
You are better off with too much rather then too little. It was reduced in content in order to protect catalitic converters which tend to get contaminated by the zddp from blow by. If you aren't running a cat, then you can't hurt the engine with too much but you can hurt it with too little.
You need one can of the blue STP per 5 quarts of oil.
You will see the stuff when you change the oil. It will appear as a grey residue floating on the oil.
You do not want to run racing oil on the street. The main difference is it has no detergents in it and a street car needs them.
We dont like to add additives to the oil, just cant gauge what results you will have one it's in.
We have used Mobil 1 15W50 for years on our 428s it has 1200-1300 levels
Want to go higher? Use their racing oil
Ranges from 1600 to 1850. We dont use it , we dont race.
Quote from: shelbydoug on March 09, 2020, 01:15:17 PM
Mobil 1 of today is not the Mobil 1 of the '70s. It has been reformulated and the ZDDT content reduced. You need to read the contents on the can. I think that the 20-50 is the "old" zddt content, whereas the 10-40 was reduced.
I found that STP in the blue can contains a substantial quantity of the stuff whereas the 10-40 was reduced.
After suffering a couple of cam lobe failures I suspect that maybe the issue is that you don't really know at what point the cam is entirely "broken in"?
You are better off with too much rather then too little. It was reduced in content in order to protect catalitic converters which tend to get contaminated by the zddp from blow by. If you aren't running a cat, then you can't hurt the engine with too much but you can hurt it with too little.
You need one can of the blue STP per 5 quarts of oil.
You will see the stuff when you change the oil. It will appear as a grey residue floating on the oil.
You do not want to run racing oil on the street. The main difference is it has no detergents in it and a street car needs them.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 09, 2020, 12:29:54 PM
+ 1
We use Mobil 1. synthetic 15W50 that has zinc in it
Once a year oil change
Zinc is important to maintain testosterone levels in your engine.
YES, 20-50 HAS MORE ZDDP. I need to review what I've got in there right now. It might be 10-30 Mobil 1? It's a new engine (less then 100 miles) and has a road race pan on it.
With the oil cooler, pan (8 quarts) and oil lines it's either 10 or 12 quarts. I know it needed more zddp so it's probably 10-30. I've got to read the tag on the engine. I need to review. It may be the Pantera that has a 12 quart system? I think so. I believe that's a 10 quart pan? :o
The Granatellis wouldn't lie to me?
I think it was 400 units of zddp added per each can of STP blue. That isn't on the shelf in California. You can't buy it in California. It causes cancer there.
It has to get shipped in. Everything causes cancer in California. I'm glad I'm in NY. It's much less cancer prone. ;)
I have a long history of Mobil 1 going back to the '70s. Other then the reformulation caution, I'd recommend it to all.
The best oil of all time was Wm Penn, Pensylvania grade but although the brand still exists, the blend doesn't. That stuff was black coming out of the can. You could hear the dead dinosaurs roar if you listened closely enough. Your hands would be black from handling it.
For me it didn't cause cancer, just brain damage.
Yup, lmao !
"The zinc and phosphorus ingredients appear to be most effective when they are used together. ZDDP/ZDTP is one of many additives that are put into conventional motor oil to improve its lubrication qualities."
Tech 101: Zinc in oil and its effects on older engines | Hemmings Daily
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2012/10/18/tech-101-zinc-in-oil-and-its-effects-on-older-engines/
Quote from: deathsled on March 09, 2020, 02:56:55 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 09, 2020, 12:29:54 PM
+ 1
We use Mobil 1. synthetic 15W50 that has zinc in it
Once a year oil change
Zinc is important to maintain testosterone levels in your engine.
Trivia: Anyone remember Arco Graphite that came out in the mid-Seventies? It also was black, coming out of the can.
I put that in a SB Chevy and the oil temp immediately went up about 15 degrees. Drained it after a couple of weeks and returned to Castrol GTX 10-40. Oil temp returned to normal.
l also remember that, when my car dripped the Arco onto the driveway, it was almost impossible to get the stain out.
IIRC, the reason graphite oil wasn't sold for very long was that the graphite had a problem staying suspended in the oil. Which contributed to sludge.
Just goes to show how our bodies can exist in tandem with our cars. The automotive atoms are just arranged differently than a human's. They are all atoms however. When you're driving and have a close call you usually say that car nearly hit "me" as opposed to nearly hit "my car." We are one with the automobile when we are behind the wheel. So I say yes to the zinc for car and man! And no to sludge in our engines or bodies.
What the superior man seeks is in himself; what the small man seeks is in others. ...
Quote from: deathsled on March 09, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
Just goes to show how our bodies can exist in tandem with our cars. The automotive atoms are just arranged differently than a human's. They are all atoms however. When you're driving and have a close call you usually say that car nearly hit "me" as opposed to nearly hit "my car." We are one with the automobile when we are behind the wheel. So I say yes to the zinc for car and man! And no to sludge in our engines or bodies.
Adams in a Shelby are ok. You don't want any Eves in it.
That Arco may have been the stuff that would eat the oil pan gaskets? I remember it leaking on my Dad's asphalt driveway, leaving a hole and sinking to the center of the earth?
There is something about certain radioactive materials doing that too? I don't remember if it glowed?
Quote from: Side-Oilers on March 09, 2020, 03:25:37 PM
Trivia: Anyone remember Arco Graphite that came out in the mid-Seventies? It also was black, coming out of the can.
I put that in a SB Chevy and the oil temp immediately went up about 15 degrees. Drained it after a couple of weeks and returned to Castrol GTX 10-40. Oil temp returned to normal.
l also remember that, when my car dripped the Arco onto the driveway, it was almost impossible to get the stain out.
IIRC, the reason graphite oil wasn't sold for very long was that the graphite had a problem staying suspended in the oil. Which contributed to sludge.
Wow, that's a somewhat different story than my experience, but maybe more representative of the general market?
I used ARCO Graphite in my new "iron duke" 1980 Pontiac from the day it was out of warranty (12k miles back then) until it was no longer available. I sold that car at about 115k, was still running great.
IIRC, I tracked a slight increase in fuel mileage (very important in the 80's).
I specifically recall my conversation with the service manager at the dealership when they plasti-gauged the mains at 93k (+/-) miles - drivetrain was out for new clutch... the mechanic wanted to know if the engine had just been rebuilt - since everything checked as if freshly done.
I do 100% agree on the difficulty of clean up. It stayed on my hands forever!
However, the [many] leaks from that Phoenix were easily identified on my epoxy coated garage floor - they were all "color coded"... oil=black, trans fluid=red (yes, Dexron in a fwd 4-spd), coolant=green, etc :( :o ::)
Zinc is an absolute for ANY flat tappet cam. At the recommendation of the FE forum I tried the VR1 10-30 instead of the Penn Grade I was running. I lost about 6 psi at idle hot and 10 psi at cruise idle. I went back to 30WT Penn Grade today. I don't run the Shell oil anymore. It's not the same formula. I also avoid synthetics for older engines. Penn Grade is old school Kendal.
At this point in my life the discussion of oil is stale. I highly reccomend using fresh Wesson oil, currently on sale at walmart for $6.58 a gallon.
Before I sign off just yesterday my motor developed a klink-klank-ping sound. Would anyone know or care to mention why that is ? klink-klank-ping...
Was that followed by a PUFF PUFF SOUND. ;D
No, no, no, klink-klank-ping, klink-klank-ping, klink-klank-ping and I'm sticking to it.
By the way woul you have dz844ce3 thingamagig....you see my crystal ball has shattered .....klink-klank-ping
Quote from: 427heaven on March 10, 2020, 08:46:42 AM
Was that followed by a PUFF PUFF SOUND. ;D
That only happens to people that live in warmer climates having a good time, I would suggest stop going to car shows- Fancy Hotels- deep sea fishing expeditions- and having adult beverages on crystal clear beaches. The noises you perceive will begin to subside... Hope this helps. ;)
Quote from: 427heaven on March 10, 2020, 10:01:16 AM
That only happens to people that live in warmer climates having a good time, I would suggest stop going to car shows- Fancy Hotels- deep sea fishing expeditions- and having adult beverages on crystal clear beaches. The noises you perceive will begin to subside... Hope this helps. ;)
On the beach I ignore sounds and just look for jiggling here and there.
Looking at your stomach while you breath?
Damn. Started out about oil and then went to Randy looking at Dougs stomach bounce....
Geez...
Back to oil
I highly reccomend to all the owners of forgein cars or fru-frus or concourse crowd to use this imported oil.
Gone fishing... lol
Quote from: gt350hr on March 10, 2020, 11:36:07 AM
Looking at your stomach while you breath?
That's not a jiggle.
In my parts they call that a barrel roll. ;D
Bottom line is that oil becomes a "personal preference" item. Many oils will do the same job and there is allot of "overlap". There are so many different brands to choose from it can be confusing . The thing NOT to do is compare "modern" engine requirements to "older" engines. Oil pumps , bearing clearances , and oil passage design are all different allowing thinner multi weight oils to be NEEDED for top engine performance. I have seen a situation where a "know it all ", 20-50 only oil user took out the 5-20 specified oil for ( you guessed it) 20-50. Not only did he LOSE gas ,mileage and engine performance , poor cold flow caused bearing damage on initial startup.
+1 to Randy.
Well who would've guessed that this simple topic could've been so informative, interesting and entertaining all at the same time
Thanks to all that contributed and me of course for starting the thread....lol
+ 1 we like you already
A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs. It's jolted by every pebble on the road.
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Well who would've guessed that this simple topic could've been so informative, interesting and entertaining all at the same time
Thanks to all that contributed and me of course for starting the thread....lol
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Well who would've guessed that this simple topic could've been so informative, interesting and entertaining all at the same time
Thanks to all that contributed and me of course for starting the thread....lol
Agreed... Wait till you ask how much air pressure is ideal, or what do you think about running a CAUTION fan sticker, the flood gates will open up.
:) haha haha I've seen that in Forum version 1.0 :)
Soooo no caution fan sticker hey....hahaha
Speaking of air, should you need vintage air for your tires....we have special containers with the specific air that would be correct for your vintage Shelby.
Please provide us your specific build date and we can provide you with a proper qoute and special SAAC pricing.
Thank you
Quote from: 427heaven on March 10, 2020, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Agreed... Wait till you ask how much air pressure is ideal, or what do you think about running a CAUTION fan sticker, the flood gates will open up.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 10, 2020, 08:35:26 AM
At this point in my life the discussion of oil is stale. I highly reccomend using fresh Wesson oil, currently on sale at walmart for $6.58 a gallon.
Before I sign off just yesterday my motor developed a klink-klank-ping sound. Would anyone know or care to mention why that is ? klink-klank-ping...
Tony- You've been hanging around in the wrong places in FL again. This won't get it. You can throw it out.. LOL
Well, the only thing with the oil on the beach, it adds to the Jello effect.
You get more glare depending on whether the Jello is still in the molds or has been released to be free?
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Well who would've guessed that this simple topic could've been so informative, interesting and entertaining all at the same time
Thanks to all that contributed and me of course for starting the thread....lol
It's the same on any forum. The subject was up on Speedtalk years back and went twenty some pages. All kinds of charts , specifications , personal opinions , no clear result as "one" brand to use. Too many pay attention to advertising claims instead of actual oil performance in use.
Randy
Randy:
Exactly. Or long term use and wear and observation during tear-downs. Mobil 1 absolutely does not contain enough ZDDP to protect a flat tappet cam.
I use Mobil one in my Lincoln and the Saab V6 cars. I also had an issue with Castrol. I used it on my Turbo Toyota. It would pull enough oil in smoke during high vacuum on deacceleration. I changed to the Kendall and it stopped completely.
Too many personal experiences. I'll stick with the Penn Grade on the Shelby.
I am not overly enthralled with 18-20 PSI at Idle hot and 55PSI hot at 3000 +-.
An average man, doing average things, with an average car, doesn't need to worry about much these days. Turning 10,000 rpm with a 500 ci pro stock engine, or having a Cobra automotive built VOGT engine turning those rpm s for an hour changes the story some. ;)
Quote from: 427heaven on March 11, 2020, 10:32:23 AM
An average man, doing average things, with an average car, doesn't need to worry about much these days. Turning 10,000 rpm with a 500 ci pro stock engine, or having a Cobra automotive built VOGT engine turning those rpm s for an hour changes the story some. ;)
Obviously you are not from my "neighborhood"? ;)
Average man. You must be talking about yourself....
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 10, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Speaking of air, should you need vintage air for your tires....we have special containers with the specific air that would be correct for your vintage Shelby.
Please provide us your specific build date and we can provide you with a proper qoute and special SAAC pricing.
Thank you
Quote from: 427heaven on March 10, 2020, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Agreed... Wait till you ask how much air pressure is ideal, or what do you think about running a CAUTION fan sticker, the flood gates will open up.
Vintage air. Creatively hilarious! Scary part is there might be an actual niche market for it.
How much Z does one need???
We have used mobil 1 15w50 with 1200 for years. One of our cars has a 428 with a high lift and duration. No problems so far
Quote from: The Going Thing on March 11, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Randy:
Exactly. Or long term use and wear and observation during tear-downs. Mobil 1 absolutely does not contain enough ZDDP to protect a flat tappet cam.
I use Mobil one in my Lincoln and the Saab V6 cars. I also had an issue with Castrol. I used it on my Turbo Toyota. It would pull enough oil in smoke during high vacuum on deacceleration. I changed to the Kendall and it stopped completely.
Too many personal experiences. I'll stick with the Penn Grade on the Shelby.
I am not overly enthralled with 18-20 PSI at Idle hot and 55PSI hot at 3000 +-.
Working on it....will have 1965, 1966 and 1967 air available by end of year...
Quote from: deathsled on March 11, 2020, 12:42:36 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 10, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Speaking of air, should you need vintage air for your tires....we have special containers with the specific air that would be correct for your vintage Shelby.
Please provide us your specific build date and we can provide you with a proper qoute and special SAAC pricing.
Thank you
Quote from: 427heaven on March 10, 2020, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Agreed... Wait till you ask how much air pressure is ideal, or what do you think about running a CAUTION fan sticker, the flood gates will open up.
Vintage air. Creatively hilarious! Scary part is there might be an actual niche market for it.
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 11, 2020, 01:01:08 PM
Working on it....will have 1965, 1966 and 1967 air available by end of year...
Quote from: deathsled on March 11, 2020, 12:42:36 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC TONY on March 10, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Speaking of air, should you need vintage air for your tires....we have special containers with the specific air that would be correct for your vintage Shelby.
Please provide us your specific build date and we can provide you with a proper qoute and special SAAC pricing.
Thank you
To be fair Tony the 'Caution fan' decal does have a use. It works well when you lean on one and crack it. It'll hold it together while the glue cures.
Quote from: 427heaven on March 10, 2020, 07:02:46 PM
Quote from: GT350AUS on March 10, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
Agreed... Wait till you ask how much air pressure is ideal, or what do you think about running a CAUTION fan sticker, the flood gates will open up.
Vintage air. Creatively hilarious! Scary part is there might be an actual niche market for it.
"Original air" is pricey for sure.
That year
That air between the lines can be exclusively yours....coming soon!
Quote from: gt350hr on March 12, 2020, 10:24:20 AM
"Original air" is pricey for sure.
For what it's worth,.... the 5-50 Full Synthetic Motorcraft oil has been run in my race car for 7 years at full temp in 30-40 minute sessions in 90 degree heat at 7-8000rpm almost every shift.
Only blown one motor.....
+ 1 word !
that motocaca oil is the best
Quote from: Bigfoot on March 12, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
For what it's worth,.... the 5-50 Full Synthetic Motorcraft oil has been run in my race car for 7 years at full temp in 30-40 minute sessions in 90 degree heat at 7-8000rpm almost every shift.
Only blown one motor.....
Quote from: Bigfoot on March 12, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
For what it's worth,.... the 5-50 Full Synthetic Motorcraft oil has been run in my race car for 7 years at full temp in 30-40 minute sessions in 90 degree heat at 7-8000rpm almost every shift.
Only blown one motor.....
Small Block roller motor? Roller and Flat Tappet cams have many different requirements. If you spend a lot of time on the FE forums and others we see a very common trend of flat tappet cam issues. Especially with new break-ins. When most of the builders of renown suggest and regularly use a particular product then I tend to follow their lead. As for the Penn Grade is has always been one of the best offerings out there.