I'm sure this was discussed on the old site, but what are the tires that originally came on a 67 GT500? I think they are: Good Year Polyglass - F70-14
Quote from: sfm5s081 on March 02, 2018, 05:27:28 PM
I'm sure this was discussed on the old site, but what are the tires that originally came on a 67 GT500? I think they are: Good Year Polyglass - F70-14
Hello,
I believe the original tires for all '67 Shelbys were Goodyear E70/15 "Speedway 350" bias ply. Early cars had large raised white letters, and later cars had small raised white letters. I do not know when the switch from large to small raised white letters took place.
Thanks,
Eric
Shelby requested the change from big to small letters in October 1966.
I'm not sure where people are sourcing tires, but i came across this site that offers a wide variety of tires for early "muscle cars".
http://www.widewhitetires.com/musclecar.html
Oct 6 1966 memo states approximately 230 cars.
By the San Jose build date it that could be as late as Dec 12,1966
This company has a lot of Goodyear Tires. :)
http://www.kelseytire.com/home.html
TOB
I kind of recall someone posting the width (top to bottom) of the large letter 350's and the small on the old pre-crash forum.
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
I'm not saying those dimensions are correct, but
they are noted in the Oct 6 1966 memo.
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
I'm not saying those dimensions are correct, but they are noted in the Oct 6 1966 memo.
For clarity you might want to post a copy of the memo.
what about in 68? did they go back to the larger letter? I have photos of our 68 500 brand new, and it looks like the larger letter. I think they were speedway 350. car was in the mid 2500's phred
Quote from: papa scoops on March 03, 2018, 07:34:39 PM
what about in 68? did they go back to the larger letter? I have photos of our 68 500 brand new, and it looks like the larger letter. I think they were speedway 350. car was in the mid 2500's phred
67 production ended using the small letter. With that said the beginning of 68 production started with the small letter and then changed over to the large letter speed way before changing to the blackwall polyglas.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
I'm not saying those dimensions are correct, but they are noted in the Oct 6 1966 memo.
For clarity you might want to post a copy of the memo.
Both prototypes, the Lime Gold GT350 and the Candy Red GT500, wore blackwalls tires in the September (Sid Avery photographer) photoshoto. The letters visible are "GOODYEAR" with "SPEEDWAY" on the opposite side. At the time this tire memo was typed (October 6th) only four base units for SA had been built at San Jose. All in Dark Moss Green. Two a week prior in late September and two days before. I have to wonder if CS saw at least 2 of these units and was not thrilled, thus the memo was written. Notice it also mentions adding "350" opposite the "GOODYEAR". I don't think that change ever happened...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-040318165207.jpeg)
Quote from: Richstang on March 04, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
I'm not saying those dimensions are correct, but they are noted in the Oct 6 1966 memo.
For clarity you might want to post a copy of the memo.
Both prototypes, the Lime Gold GT350 and the Candy Red GT500, wore blackwalls tires in the September (Sid Avery photographer) photoshoto. The letters visible are "GOODYEAR" with "SPEEDWAY" on the opposite side. At the time this tire memo was typed (October 6th) only four base units for SA had been built at San Jose. All in Dark Moss Green. Two a week prior in late September and two days before. I have to wonder if CS saw at least 2 of these units and was not thrilled, thus the memo was written. Notice it also mentions adding "350" opposite the "GOODYEAR". I don't think that change ever happened...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-040318165207.jpeg)
Thanks for posting this example of how we have to take meaning out of a document that has some obvious mistakes based on the evidence.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 04, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 04, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
I'm not saying those dimensions are correct, but they are noted in the Oct 6 1966 memo.
For clarity you might want to post a copy of the memo.
Both prototypes, the Lime Gold GT350 and the Candy Red GT500, wore blackwalls tires in the September (Sid Avery photographer) photoshoto. The letters visible are "GOODYEAR" with "SPEEDWAY" on the opposite side. At the time this tire memo was typed (October 6th) only four base units for SA had been built at San Jose. All in Dark Moss Green. Two a week prior in late September and two days before. I have to wonder if CS saw at least 2 of these units and was not thrilled, thus the memo was written. Notice it also mentions adding "350" opposite the "GOODYEAR". I don't think that change ever happened...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-040318165207.jpeg)
Thanks for posting this example of how we have to take meaning out of a document that has some obvious mistakes based on the evidence.
I think the "mistakes" were probably
expectations from the SA side of the issue. I doubt they had any cars at LAX by Oct 6th to review. (I can't believe Ford would have delivered the two September built cars by themselves. Even adding the two cars built a day or two before the memo in October would not fill a typical Ford transporter, as we saw with the 65-66 deliveries to Venice.) Without a car to measure, the dimensions given for the letter sizes are very specific. They might have been the planned sizes.
The "approximate 230 units" is another very specific number that must have come from somewhere. The timing of those 230 cars built in Sept and Oct is not out of line, even though it took much longer to reach that point.
The expectation from SA to change the lettering on the opposite side of GOODYEAR to "350" sounds like a marketing approach to add another identifier to the car. Since SA would be paying for the mold changes anyway why not ask, especially with CS's relationship to Goodyear.
I know this is speculation on my part, but I can't be to far off here.
Why did they go back to large lettered Speedways in 68? Was it because CS wasn't calling the shots as much and Ford let Goodyear get the better (larger) advertising?
Quote from: BGlover67 on March 05, 2018, 01:02:53 PM
Why did they go back to large lettered Speedways in 68? Was it because CS wasn't calling the shots as much and Ford let Goodyear get the better (larger) advertising?
Good question Brian.
I also wonder if the '68 large letter Goodyears were the exact same size as the '67's?
(Since the molds had been changed to small letters...maybe Goodyear kept the '67 large lettered tooling inserts?)
They both were getting complaints because the letters were molded in and subject to curb rash very easily.
I don't have any documentation one way or the other but I suspect that Shelbly thought part of the problem was the larger letters were more subject to the issue?
Whatever it was, the large letter tires seemed to set the standard and disappeared seemingly as soon as they appeared?
I can't think of any other US production car that got them other then the early 67 Shelbys? They certainly seemed to help set the character/public persona of the 67's, some of which were being used as pace cars at the big races.
With the introduction of the new GT500, they helped create almost a feeding frenzy in the automotive press?
Certainly other companies like Firestone hated the idea since it kind of forced them into them also.
Whatever the nature of the tire was in actual performance, the raised white letters was one of the largest developments in the marketing of tires probably ever. As a result, you can't eliminate the effect that they had on advertising and marketing. That can be pretty fickle so that is the most likely answer, i.e., the swing back and forth of the "marketing team's" decisions?
Maybe Shelby (even though he was a Goodyear racing tire dealer) didn't like the fact that the large letter Goodyear was too readable - it wasn't a GOODYEAR car it was a Shelby!
thought this might be of interest regards the discussion in the other thread "did Goodyear have a vintage "Sports" tire concerning
large & small letter tires
Quote from: Richstang on March 05, 2018, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 04, 2018, 08:23:27 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 04, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on March 03, 2018, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Richstang on March 03, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
The Goodyear Memo stated the reduction of the letters from 1 3/4" down to 3/4".
I don't believe the memo mention 1 3/4 . I have heard the large letters refer to as 1" tall in the reality the large letters are closer to 1 1/4.
I'm not saying those dimensions are correct, but they are noted in the Oct 6 1966 memo.
For clarity you might want to post a copy of the memo.
Both prototypes, the Lime Gold GT350 and the Candy Red GT500, wore blackwalls tires in the September (Sid Avery photographer) photoshoto. The letters visible are "GOODYEAR" with "SPEEDWAY" on the opposite side. At the time this tire memo was typed (October 6th) only four base units for SA had been built at San Jose. All in Dark Moss Green. Two a week prior in late September and two days before. I have to wonder if CS saw at least 2 of these units and was not thrilled, thus the memo was written. Notice it also mentions adding "350" opposite the "GOODYEAR". I don't think that change ever happened...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/204-040318165207.jpeg)
Thanks for posting this example of how we have to take meaning out of a document that has some obvious mistakes based on the evidence.
I think the "mistakes" were probably expectations from the SA side of the issue. I doubt they had any cars at LAX by Oct 6th to review. (I can't believe Ford would have delivered the two September built cars by themselves. Even adding the two cars built a day or two before the memo in October would not fill a typical Ford transporter, as we saw with the 65-66 deliveries to Venice.) Without a car to measure, the dimensions given for the letter sizes are very specific. They might have been the planned sizes.
The "approximate 230 units" is another very specific number that must have come from somewhere. The timing of those 230 cars built in Sept and Oct is not out of line, even though it took much longer to reach that point.
The expectation from SA to change the lettering on the opposite side of GOODYEAR to "350" sounds like a marketing approach to add another identifier to the car. Since SA would be paying for the mold changes anyway why not ask, especially with CS's relationship to Goodyear.
I know this is speculation on my part, but I can't be to far off here.