Did they show up with the dual 4-barrels already installed from Ford? Valve covers? I have seen pictures of Mustangs in Shelby's lot without hoods, noses, trunk lids etc. Is that how they arrived or were those things removed at Shelby? Was the interior already in place and have to be removed in order to install the side scoops, roll bar etc.? Did they all arrive with steel wheels and then the Magstars (and ten spokes) installed by Shelby later for the cars that were ordered with them? Was there employees at Shelby mounting and balancing tires? Did Shelby have his own painters? Were the fibre glass parts painted off the car and then installed?
Things I've been curious about over the years that I've never thought to ask.
Thanks!
Shelby ordered the '67 Mustang base unit by each DSO group (package) with many parts omitted to save on disassembly time at LAX. The SVO sheets (Special Vehicle Order & Part Specifications ...AKA add /delete sheets) for each DSO group outline the deleted and added Shelby specific parts. These parts changed slightly for each DSO group as production continued through the model year. (Many of these SVO sheets are available for a small cost from the '67 Registrar; Dave Mathews)
All the mechanicals were installed at Ford's San Jose factory and the cars were drivable even with all the deleted parts. The intention was to limit as much disassembly as possible for SAI.
The rear interior sections were removed at LAX to install the upper and lower scoops and the roll bar/ shoulder belts.
Initially the early cars arrived with Magstar wheels. Once production was underway it is my belief they arrived from San Jose with steel rims and based on the dealer orders were either shipped with the standard wheels or upgraded at LAX to Magstars or 10 spokes based on the Production Order. (These POs are also available from the registrar for a small cost) I would assume the upgraded wheels were mounted at LAX.
There were two paint booths at LAX so the fiberglass part could be painted as needed. I am not certain if some may have been painted on the car before or after installation. I always assumed painted first, then installed, but a photo of #0231 shows a gray primer nose installed. This was likely due to the fitment issues.
If you're looking for more of these intricate details, check out the 1967 Shelby Research group on Google.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/shelbyresearch
Quote from: owenkelley on August 21, 2019, 04:23:43 PM
Did they show up with the dual 4-barrels already installed from Ford? Valve covers? I have seen pictures of Mustangs in Shelby's lot without hoods, noses, trunk lids etc. Is that how they arrived or were those things removed at Shelby? Was the interior already in place and have to be removed in order to install the side scoops, roll bar etc.? Did they all arrive with steel wheels and then the Magstars (and ten spokes) installed by Shelby later for the cars that were ordered with them? Was there employees at Shelby mounting and balancing tires? Did Shelby have his own painters? Were the fibre glass parts painted off the car and then installed?
Things I've been curious about over the years that I've never thought to ask.
Thanks!
Yes they typically showed up with the dual 4-barrels already installed from Ford including Valve covers air cleaner P/S cooler etc. The cars arrived as seen in the pictures you mentioned without hoods ,trunklids or front valance assembly components . The interiors were already in the cars and Shelby removed and later re installed what they need to for the installation of the side scoops and roll bar. Typically the cars arrived with ether steel wheels or the optional wheels and the tires that they were mounted on. Shelby painted the fiberglass components to order typically on site with their own painters. The fiberglass components were painted off of the car in lacquer paint. Ford assemblyline used a single stage acrylic enamel. It was cheaper to have Ford do as much as they could them contract them to do rather then to have Shelby change all of the components out on a already completed car.
only the GT500's had the dual 4-barrels Holley's, the GT350's had single 4-barrel 715 Holley on 4-speeds or Ford AUTOLITE 650 on Automatics (although it seems as though some of those got the Holley 715 too).
The cars had to be driven off the assembly line at Ford and onto and off of the transporter (truck or rail) at Shelby. Running cars but not complete street legal cars.
Great info. Thank you guys!
I don't know what they did in 1967, but 1968 junk hoods (both fiberglass and steel) were sent to Ford Assembly, put on the cars for transport and then returned for another trip
Of course, it was sunny California, so they probably just loaded them as is...
All of the LAX lot photos show the base units delivered just as described...no hoods.
JD,
I always like seeing that color photo (with Jack Khoury?) on the east side of the production hanger.
Great place to post it!
Quote from: Coralsnake on August 21, 2019, 08:01:37 PM
I don't know what they did in 1967, but 1968 junk hoods (both fiberglass and steel) were sent to Ford Assembly, put on the cars for transport and then returned for another trip
Of course, it was sunny California, so they probably just loaded them as is...
It was as you suspected because weather conditions were conducive to transport and for that matter leaving them in the lot until needed without hood or trunks . Not even plastic covers etc.over the engine compartment anyway from the evidence I have seen. Back east the weather is not so predictable.
Great info and great site to visit
Quote from: Richstang on August 21, 2019, 05:00:22 PM
Shelby ordered the '67 Mustang base unit by each DSO group (package) with many parts omitted to save on disassembly time at LAX. The SVO sheets (Special Vehicle Order & Part Specifications ...AKA add /delete sheets) for each DSO group outline the deleted and added Shelby specific parts. These parts changed slightly for each DSO group as production continued through the model year. (Many of these SVO sheets are available for a small cost from the '67 Registrar; Dave Mathews)
All the mechanicals were installed at Ford's San Jose factory and the cars were drivable even with all the deleted parts. The intention was to limit as much disassembly as possible for SAI.
The rear interior sections were removed at LAX to install the upper and lower scoops and the roll bar/ shoulder belts.
Initially the early cars arrived with Magstar wheels. Once production was underway it is my belief they arrived from San Jose with steel rims and based on the dealer orders were either shipped with the standard wheels or upgraded at LAX to Magstars or 10 spokes based on the Production Order. (These POs are also available from the registrar for a small cost) I would assume the upgraded wheels were mounted at LAX.
There were two paint booths at LAX so the fiberglass part could be painted as needed. I am not certain if some may have been painted on the car before or after installation. I always assumed painted first, then installed, but a photo of #0231 shows a gray primer nose installed. This was likely due to the fitment issues.
If you're looking for more of these intricate details, check out the 1967 Shelby Research group on Google.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/shelbyresearch
some more images of cars as delivered to Shelby.
The second image is a close-up of the left side of the third image.
The fourth is a close-up of the first image in this set...
Inventory of completed cars...
No "junk" hoods or deck lids.
Couple more:
(click to enlarge)
(FWIW-in post #9 that's a UAL B720-talk about inefficient!)
Just wondering, in Reply 2, it says fiberglass parts were painted off the car then installed, which makes perfect sense. Yet, in Reply 11, the bottom photo shows a succession of cars with unpainted noses installed and appear to have trim rings installed. Could this have been a staged photo, because it seems like wasted effort to install, then remove for painting. As we know, Shelby did not like wasted effort.
Quote from: greekz on August 22, 2019, 01:13:27 PM
Just wondering, in Reply 2, it says fiberglass parts were painted off the car then installed, which makes perfect sense. Yet, in Reply 11, the bottom photo shows a succession of cars with unpainted noses installed and appear to have trim rings installed. Could this have been a staged photo, because it seems like wasted effort to install, then remove for painting. As we know, Shelby did not like wasted effort.
From reply #1
"There were two paint booths at LAX so the fiberglass parts could be painted as needed. I am not certain if some may have been painted on the car before or after installation. I always assumed painted first, then installed, but a photo of #0231 shows a gray primer nose installed.
This was likely due to the fitment issues.[/i][/b]"
We know the first fiberglass nose pieces were a very poor fit from the early molds. Since this white car is noted as #00231 this should still be one of those early pieces. It is possible the nose was fitted in place on early cars prior to painting to make adjustments as needed. I suspect by the time the 2 pieces nose arrived they could be pre-painted with the other parts off the car before assembly. After the revised (new) one piece nose arrived the fitment may have been good enough to pre-paint prior to installation. just my thoughts...
Edit; I don't think the production line had time to stage photos since the early cars were slow to complete and likely far behind schedule.
Some early cars have yellow Grease pencil writing on the back of the fiberglass pieces with the last 2 digits of the car number, implying that the pieces were fit, removed, painted then reattached. Some cars have numbered parts form another car completed at the same time, same color.
It is known that there were horrible fitment issues, especially with the nose pieces. Accounts of the steps and procedures required to get them to "fit".
Here is a tail panel...
But,
Since all GT-500's started life as "S" code cars, who put in the 428PI motors? Special Production order, like the COPO Chevy's and Hurst Olds? Not publicly available, but special build runs?
Quote from: Cobrask8 on August 22, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
But,
Since all GT-500's started life as "S" code cars, who put in the 428PI motors? Special Production order, like the COPO Chevy's and Hurst Olds? Not publicly available, but special build runs?
at Ford, San Jose factory. built that way from the start. There was no S code engine ever installed, just the basic 'S' components needed for the 428.
Quote from: Cobrask8 on August 22, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
But,
Since all GT-500's started life as "S" code cars, who put in the 428PI motors? Special Production order, like the COPO Chevy's and Hurst Olds? Not publicly available, but special build runs?
In a way yes - as they were special order DSO, special run by Ford for Shelby units (the cars) but Ford VIN for the 428 cars have a "Q" code not an "S"" code.
Quote from: Richstang on August 22, 2019, 01:28:24 PM
Quote from: greekz on August 22, 2019, 01:13:27 PM
Just wondering, in Reply 2, it says fiberglass parts were painted off the car then installed, which makes perfect sense. Yet, in Reply 11, the bottom photo shows a succession of cars with unpainted noses installed and appear to have trim rings installed. Could this have been a staged photo, because it seems like wasted effort to install, then remove for painting. As we know, Shelby did not like wasted effort.
From reply #1
"There were two paint booths at LAX so the fiberglass parts could be painted as needed. I am not certain if some may have been painted on the car before or after installation. I always assumed painted first, then installed, but a photo of #0231 shows a gray primer nose installed. This was likely due to the fitment issues.[/i][/b]"
We know the first fiberglass nose pieces were a very poor fit from the early molds. Since this white car is noted as #00231 this should still be one of those early pieces. It is possible the nose was fitted in place on early cars prior to painting to make adjustments as needed. I suspect by the time the 2 pieces nose arrived they could be pre-painted with the other parts off the car before assembly. After the revised (new) one piece nose arrived the fitment may have been good enough to pre-paint prior to installation. just my thoughts...
Edit; I don't think the production line had time to stage photos since the early cars were slow to complete and likely far behind schedule.
That makes sense.
If you look closely at the pic you can see that all if the cars had primer noses, i.e. none of them were pre-painted prior to install (for all of those mentally gifted such as myself!).
Quote from: camp upshur on August 22, 2019, 08:53:50 PM
If you look closely at the pic you can see that all if the cars had primer noses, i.e. none of them were pre-painted prior to install (for all of those mentally gifted such as myself!).
How many of you have seen original paint body color over spray evidence on the front frame rail, radiator support ,License plate bracket and or hood latch support bracket as a result of painting the nose on the car? ;)
I don't think I have ever looked under a 1967 Shelby Mustang, I've been cloistered in the 1965 GT-350 world. :o
What I do know from the 1965 world is that era photos have consistently been the most accurate source in dispelling and enlightening in areas of confusion. Since all of these cars in this one picture have primer noses I would hope my 1967 colleagues would be keeping an eye open for a production line photos w painted noses perhaps.
Love those 67s though, especially w the centered lamps! Cheers!!
Quote from: camp upshur on August 22, 2019, 08:53:50 PM
If you look closely at the pic you can see that all if the cars had primer noses, i.e. none of them were pre-painted prior to install (for all of those mentally gifted such as myself!).
Those must be early cars with steel frame hoods. Details were beimg worked out. The numbers on those cars maybe could be narrowed down, all white all steel hoods, could fit into one DSO number?
Quote from: shelbydoug on August 22, 2019, 10:21:29 PM
Quote from: camp upshur on August 22, 2019, 08:53:50 PM
If you look closely at the pic you can see that all if the cars had primer noses, i.e. none of them were pre-painted prior to install (for all of those mentally gifted such as myself!).
Those must be early cars with steel frame hoods. Details were beimg worked out. The numbers on those cars maybe could be narrowed down, all white all steel hoods, could fit into one DSO number?
SAI was probably not concerned about completing cars with the same DSO package since they were not really touching the mechanicals, just the aesthetics. I've seen some of the daily logs and they were mixed by engine model. (Maybe just the same colors as we see on the line). The first car in the LAX line is noted as #00231. (GT500 4spd '400F' completed 1/3/67) There were quite a few white cars completed around the same time as it including a few GT350s with automatics '211F. What we don't know is when they were all started. We would only be guessing on any of the other white ones.
Quote from: camp upshur on August 22, 2019, 09:47:26 PM
I don't think I have ever looked under a 1967 Shelby Mustang, I've been cloistered in the 1965 GT-350 world. :o
What I do know from the 1965 world is that era photos have consistently been the most accurate source in dispelling and enlightening in areas of confusion. Since all of these cars in this one picture have primer noses I would hope my 1967 colleagues would be keeping an eye open for a production line photos w painted noses perhaps.
Love those 67s though, especially w the centered lamps! Cheers!!
I study all years Shelby 65-70 . The use of historic photos has been a important tool for me to cultivate my concours judging expertise . Personal observation along with historical photos gives a advantage in interpreting photos that someone unfamiliar with a given production year techniques may overlook or not take into consideration. For instance another explanation for what is seen in the photos could be pre fitting and final prep prior to painting . Given the absence of over spray evidence on brackets ,sheetmetal and front framerails on survivor examples would tend to add weight to that interpretation at least until more compelling evidence presents itself. It is a evolving learning process.
there is this image... seems to support the painted off the car perspective.
Quote from: Richstang on August 22, 2019, 02:17:28 PM
Quote from: Cobrask8 on August 22, 2019, 02:09:01 PM
But,
Since all GT-500's started life as "S" code cars, who put in the 428PI motors? Special Production order, like the COPO Chevy's and Hurst Olds? Not publicly available, but special build runs?
at Ford, San Jose factory. built that way from the start. There was no S code engine ever installed, just the basic 'S' components needed for the 428.
To add the S code is 390 and Q code is 428 . With that said it is common to find paint stick markings on the back side of battery aprons that read "QD" on the GT500 and KD on the GT350 . The Q and the K were apparent reference to the engines put there to remind assemblyline personal what engine went in the bodies.