I am looking for a set of Headers that will fit a 427 FE engine in a GT 500. The current headers on the car are Hooker Super Comps with a power steering Ram drop bracket and one of the header tubes is rubbing on the power steering ram. I have installed new factory style motor mounts which did not solve the clearance problem with the power ram. What are some options for solving the fitment problem while keeping the factory power steering?
Lauran
Extend the drop bracket more or alter the header tube.
FPA tri-Ys in my GT 500 with PS. No drop bracket required.
;D
Most old timers (like me) will tell you that headers ALWAYS need to be fitted to the chassis. Have them coated after you do that.
Tri-ys do give away power. The bigger the engine. the more they give away.
There is ONE set of big tube, 4 in to 1 headers that will fit this engine/chassis. They belong in the Louve. They are pure artistry.Art doesn't come cheap. Inquire with Mr.Gaines. He may still have pictures on his electronic hand held gizmo thing-a-ma-jig? Other then that, you could probably rent an electric hammer from Home Depot
I have parts left over from my 428 CJ disassembly....you could build some...lol!
Quote from: 69bosssvt on July 20, 2019, 05:39:44 PM
I have parts left over from my 428 CJ disassembly....you could build some...lol!
;D
I have 6114's on my 67 GT500. Other than the drop bracket I have had to make NO modifications for header clearances.
I would venture someone ran over a speed bump and landed on the flanges and bent them upwards towards the floor pans.
-Keith
My experience with FE headers on my GT 500KR is the Hooker Super Comps. Only issue I had was the collector flanges with interference at the transmission mount cross bracing on the floor pans. Collectors should have been 1/2" to 1" longer.
Installation was made easier by lifting the engine 3" to 4" and leave off the block engine mounts for header installation. I installed the headers through the radiator support and was able to slide them up along the side without any issues. (Did grind the shock tower reinforcing about 3/16" for header bolt clearance. Using Summit small diameter stainless steel header bolts.) My car is using a Genesis block side-oiler with 482 cu. in. built by Keith Kraft. Now that the installation is done, I wish I would have used the Hooker race headers without flanges for my application, as they are larger diameter tubes and would not have had the interference issues at the transmission mount bracing.
Hope this is of some help to anyone installing FE headers. I probably have a series of pics of the install.
Don
gt350bp
I've had 3 sets of Super Comps On my side oiler over the years. Historically were poorly made. Finally resolved fit and leak issues. By design, the drivers side is unnecessarily low. Car has manual steering. Once visited with Kooks regarding custom, stainless headers. They wanted $4000 to fabricate including exhaust. Bit pricey.
Quote from: Rickmustang on July 20, 2019, 12:36:36 PM
FPA tri-Ys in my GT 500 with PS. No drop bracket required.
+1 , FPAs and DITCH the drop bracket before it breaks out the frame in that area. Guess why I know???
Randy
My427 runs FPA, hooker sucks, that was the only choice back in 79, spend the money on and get the good stuff
As time consuming as FE installation is, and since most of us are into this long term, stainless headers are becoming a preference. The thought of never having to deal with rotted exhaust the rest of my life has a lot of value. Well made, TIG weld headers are almost art work. Beyond that, my 2-1/2" Magnaflow, stainless exhaust is one of the best selections in 42 years of ownership. Can have a quiet conversation at 65 MPH with the windows down. Yet pulls so hard accelerating thru 130 MPH fear the Hoosier A6 road race tires will brake traction.
Any input on JBA headers part number 6654SJS? They are long tube Tri-Y stainless steel with Silver Ceramic coating.
Lauran
Hooker 6114's aren't poorly made, as one opined. The flanges are 3/8 laser cut and the welds are extremely nice. I bought them uncoated and they have Jet Hot inside and out. They are at the same level inside out. I used an engine hoist, carb plate and dropped the idler arm from the frame, removed the center brace and the starter. They went right on.
I do use Remflex header gaskets, which are about a 1/4 thick until compressed. They seal and there is no issue with leaking as the layered graphite is not only good to 3,000 degrees but it compressed about 1/8" when tight.
In hindsight, I may have elected to go JBA headers. I don't care for the shorties and they sure don't make the same power and still have fitment issues. I know some like the FPA's.
My headers are 17 years old and there is NO rust, inside or out. They look new. Too much old school thought and wives tales going on. With technology comes changes. Just don't do what we did when we were kids. Black Jack Headers, flat white high temp paint. Spend the money on the coating. Make sure it's done inside out. I also recommend you don't buy the headers with the factory coat. Most aren't done inside and out.
The inside out coating also cuts down substantially on engine compartment temperatures.
If you elect to do headers, be sure to get rid of the transverse exhaust. I am running Flowmaster Delta in 2.50 necked down to 2.25. The tips are where they belong and look factory.
Quiet with the widows down at 130? No FE is quiet at 5400 rpm ( 3.25 R&P) with headers and any performance exhaust unless you're deaf.
-Keith
Quote from: vtgt500 on July 22, 2019, 04:27:53 PM
I've had 3 sets of Super Comps On my side oiler over the years. Historically were poorly made. Finally resolved fit and leak issues. By design, the drivers side is unnecessarily low. Car has manual steering. Once visited with Kooks regarding custom, stainless headers. They wanted $4000 to fabricate including exhaust. Bit pricey.
I had a set of them. They hang down like a gorillas knuckles. The slip tubes leak like crazy and the tubes are 20 gauge to make them lighter. It's like having no exhaust on the car at all.
Quote from: vtgt500 on July 23, 2019, 08:23:56 AM
As time consuming as FE installation is, and since most of us are into this long term, stainless headers are becoming a preference. The thought of never having to deal with rotted exhaust the rest of my life has a lot of value. Well made, TIG weld headers are almost art work. Beyond that, my 2-1/2" Magnaflow, stainless exhaust is one of the best selections in 42 years of ownership. Can have a quiet conversation at 65 MPH with the windows down. Yet pulls so hard accelerating thru 130 MPH fear the Hoosier A6 road race tires will brake traction.
I agree, but who makes them in stainless?
Quote from: shelbydoug on July 31, 2019, 01:21:36 PM
[
I had a set of them. They hang down like a gorillas knuckles. The slip tubes leak like crazy and the tubes are 20 gauge to make them lighter. It's like having no exhaust on the car at all.
So! What's the problem! Period correct!, that's how it's suppose to be, right! If it were different, I'd feel like I was cheated from the true and proper experience! ::)
Ahhh, the good old days! 8)
Scott
Problem? No problem. I liked the sparks from dragging on the ground. Of course I got over sparklers eventually too.
I really wouldn't call track headers on the street as period correct. No. That's not the term I'd use.
Now come-on, they aren't literally "dragging on the ground", well not all of the time anyway. And back in the day, speed bumps weren't as common as they seem to be these days, but when encountered it was generally a wise practice to drive around them, same with manhole covers and or other abrupt topography changes. But after the first few inevitable incursions the pipes acquired some degree of additional ground clearance. And I suppose their use ruled out lowering the nose much, if at all; but again not so common a practice back then as compared to today, and perhaps the 90/10 front shocks helped a little too.
But they look cool, not some shortie, puny, pansy pipes for kids; it's just part of the nature of the beast, a big bad beast of that period. If one wants something without headache (excessive noise, nauseous fumes, and requiring a tool box carried along) , I often recommend a new Mustang (or what-ever), your only pain will be the payments. ::)
Scott.
By the way, if you use the Hooker or Doug's race headers that cross under the pan your power steering is history.
I have the Arning drop and the Global West 1" lower coil springs and a .750 spacer to avoid being too low. Doug is right about light shows underneath the car and speed bumps are not your friend. However, the sound is awesome. I love the equal length into four with the flow master Deltas.
-Keith
What cast iron exhaust manifolds will fit my 427 medium riser heads (with bolt holes at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock only) and the engine compartment for a GT500?
Lauran
That would be "none". The Cougar GTE used a 390 GT exhaust manifold and 14 bolt head.
Actually that would be only (ONE) that I know of and that would be a very rare 427 fairlane set of exhaust manifolds... As in VERY RARE!
Quote from: 427heaven on August 06, 2019, 03:22:03 PM
Actually that would be only (ONE) that I know of and that would be a very rare 427 fairlane set of exhaust manifolds... As in VERY RARE!
Technically that is not correct or at least "not out of the box". There are a few individuals who have made them fit with what was describe to me as "excessive grinding". I think that is of both the chassis and the manifolds?
The reality is they are no better then the CJ manifolds are so what's the point? They definitely are heavier.
The CJ manifolds fit nicely and are an improvement over the GT manifolds.
A few years ago there was a SAAC member who cast up aluminum versions of the CJ manifolds.
NONE were made specifically to fit the Mustang with an 8 bolt pattern. 427 Fairlanes will NOT fit "out of the box. Been there and done that.
how about a 1962 Police Interceptor exhaust manifold from 1962 as used on 390 and 406 engines?
No way! At least not with the front clip still in place! :o
Scott.
Quote from: gt350hr on August 06, 2019, 04:58:55 PM
NONE were made specifically to fit the Mustang with an 8 bolt pattern. 427 Fairlanes will NOT fit "out of the box. Been there and done that.
They were made specifically for the 66 67 Fairlanes and were tight but fit right. My 427 fairlanes used these at first but since those cars were built as a max effort vehicles they needed to breath better and went with headers. The same engine package was installed in my cobra jet cars and only needed to trim the shock tower wrap around bracing, more like a shave literally. But after many decades of use maybe being stored without an engine in place the shock towers TACO MAKING THINGS TIGHTER. If all things are as they left the factory they will fit great. The early 406 427 cast iron manifolds flow great but wont fit anything except the great BEHEMOUTHS from the early 60s.
When I was originally doing this exact same feasability study about 1985, installing a 427MR, there were few sources of information on the Fairlane manifolds and fewer sources to buy from.
When I inquired with Perogie, George told me that they could be made to fit, he had done it, but there was a lot of grinding involved. Considering that then, a set would have cost me $3500, I went a different way.
If you make a spread sheet of all the possibilities, assigning +/- values, it rapidly becomes apparent that headers are the "best" solution and of those headers, Hookers are the best value and compromise the least.
Considering the cost of the Fairlane manifolds and their market resale value unaltered, I would want to see an installation in detail before I committed to that solution.
I still don't see the point of using them. They aren't original to the car so if you have already lost that argument why not just go with the Hooker headers?
One might argue that there are better header choices. FE's are not high reving rpm monsters. It doesn't matter much that you have 2-1/8" primary tubes or 1-3/4".
Having Hooker Super Comps hanging down like a gorilla scraping his knuckles on the pavement is initially very cool but like driving, or attempting to, a comp car on the street, they quickly loose their glitter of the wow factor and eventually you arrive at the "why do I need this aggravation factor?" Been there...done that. They're great in home room discussions before the late bell rings or I suppose after your second double of Black Jack? There they absolutely supply at least another 250hp?
Is this an academic discussion or one of practicality/impracticality? ???
Anyone know of a source that offers reproduction 1967 Ford Fairlane 427 Exhaust Manifolds?
Lauran
I have purchased a set of 1967 Ford Fairlane 427 exhaust manifolds.
Lauran
Congratulations you found the HOLY GRAIL... Rarer then hens teeth, now at car shows people will be scratching their asses wondering what you have for an exhaust system. Medium riser heads with matching 427 Fairlane manifolds will make people smile. Great street performance but lacking if you are really looking for max performance. :)
I am looking for a source for the oem style exhaust pipes that would attach to the 427 Fairlane Exhaust Manifolds. Thanks Lauran
Quote from: RSOHC on August 08, 2019, 04:50:08 PM
I am looking for a source for the oem style exhaust pipes that would attach to the 427 Fairlane Exhaust Manifolds. Thanks Lauran
Given you have been talking about fitting the 427 Fairlane exhaust manifolds previously to a GT500 I only assume you are still looking for advice as it refers to a Mustang body. In a Mustang body the H pipe would have to be custom made for 427 exhaust. FYI the stock exhaust is 2 in but if doing this modification you would most likely want to go at least 2 1/4 . This is a easy build for any competent Muffler shop. If you are lucky they will have a build pattern card like the old school shop I have used for 30 years. I would also advise to have the entire exhaust made by your shop of choice with your choice of mufflers. On a car like this I would also suggest a aluminized or pipe with high carbon content (not as much as stainless) so that they will not rust. The mufflers are typically aluminized (but confirm anyway) so no worry about them . You will have to get creative about the exhaust tips depending on the pipe size . Originals will be too small of a diameter. I had my muffler shop make some up using original dimensions but went from 2 1/2 to 3 inch of a genuine tip. I had the special tips chrome plated . The exhaust look OEM from the outside. Resist the temptation to buy the after market intermediate pipes to mate to your custom built H pipe. They typically fit terribly any way. Just some thoughts based on personal experience. I hope it helps.
I will post some pictures when my selfmade headers in stainless steel are done, Ím not happy with all the aftermarket crap so we built our own headers for the mustangs etc.
Can someone please post a picture of how the choke tube is connected to the stock passenger side exhaust manifold. Thanks
Lauran
Quote from: RSOHC on August 23, 2019, 12:28:51 PM
Can someone please post a picture of how the choke tube is connected to the stock passenger side exhaust manifold. Thanks
Lauran
Given the category you are posting in and to get the most accurate info for your situation which choke tube? The 68 GT500 or 68 GT500 KR?
68 GT500. I don't understand how the choke tube is connected to the exhaust manifold. If I where to guess,it would be that the choke tube is connected to the exhaust manifold by running the tube through a hole is the "fitting and screen" located on the passenger exhaust. The hole in the fitting is smaller than the end of the tube I have that would connect the carb to the exhaust manifold.
Lauran
Remember, this discussion is about HEADERS. I do have my heated choke tube connected to the Hooker U shaped heat riser. Even the breather tube comes up in the blower motor shield as it should.
-Keith
Quote from: RSOHC on August 23, 2019, 04:47:13 PM
68 GT500. I don't understand how the choke tube is connected to the exhaust manifold. If I where to guess,it would be that the choke tube is connected to the exhaust manifold by running the tube through a hole is the "fitting and screen" located on the passenger exhaust. The hole in the fitting is smaller than the end of the tube I have that would connect the carb to the exhaust manifold.
Lauran
I would start a knew thread asking the same question so as to give others the advantage of the same information you asked now and in the future using the search feature. It will also give me time to take some pictures of a engine on a stand that I can post ;) .
Having red the thread on headers for a 427FE, i am not sure if this helps but.......... about 5/6 years ago whilst tuning a 428PI in a 67GT500, we fitted it with 427 heads.
Because of the original exhaust manifold to cylinder head bolt pattern difference between the 428/427 and not being able to use headers, especially because of Country Certification laws about non stock appearance parts, i designed a pair of hand fabricated stainless steel exhaust manifolds which have the shape/profile/position of the cast 428 heads but have the exhaust manifold bolt pattern for a 427.
These manifolds fit straight up to the 427 heads and allow a stock H-pipe exhaust system to be connected whilst installed in a 67/68 engine bay and have full clearance on all stock components including the Z bar.
They offer a more Factory look than headers, if that is what you are looking for.
Are you offering to the public a pair of hand fabricated stainless steel exhaust manifolds which have the shape/profile/position of the cast 428 heads but have the exhaust manifold bolt pattern for a 427.
Lauran
I have decided to go with some coated headers from Ford Powertrain Applications (FPA) located in Puyallup, Washington. The headers fit once the coating was removed from holes where the headers bolt up to head. I had to grind some material from the front edge of the dropped steering bracket so that the power ram hoses did not rub on the bracket. The ground clearance is much improved compared to the Hooker Super Comp headers that I removed from the car. I converted the choke on the carb to an electric unit since the FPA headers did not have any of the fixtures required to use the original choke on the carb.
In an effort to get the factory Thunderbolt exhaust manifolds to fit, I did some grinding on the shock towers and I deleted the gasket between the exhaust manifold and the head. What I could not resolve was the severe interference between the factory steering box and the exhaust manifold.
Lauran
No factory cast iron manifold will fit that combination.
Fortunately you have a good option. JBA offers a shorty header made from inconel (stainless) tubing. It fits nicely once you get all the bolts in. No drop bracket required for the PS either. The headers are 16 bolt pattern so they work with either 428CJ style heads or with (like yours) earlier 8 bolt heads.
They can be made to work with 14 bolt heads but you have to do your homework to avoid exhaust leaks.
Quote from: RSOHC on August 06, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
What cast iron exhaust manifolds will fit my 427 medium riser heads (with bolt holes at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock only) and the engine compartment for a GT500?
Lauran
There is no perfect header for a big block. All the ones that I know of have some sort of issues. Some have issues larger then others.
It would seem that a larger tube would be desireable but I suppose the answer is virtually any tube diameter with full length tubes is so drastically different then even the CJ iron manifolds.
I haven't tried them, but show me where shorties are nothing more then bigger tube cast iron manifolds.
I agree that I'd like the collectors of the Hookers long tubes to be higher but unless you are going Pro racing and need bigger tubes, they are a good compromise.
The extended power steering bracket mounting needs additional bracing on ALL Mustangs.
Prof.Gains had a custom set of big tube, 2-1/4" primaries I think, headers on a 67 427 GT500. I think they must have been mounted with some kind of a peel and stick mounting system?
He had posted pictures of them on the crashed forum previously. Maybe he can find those pictures and post them again? He does need a break to rest his fingers from typing here and he apparently does some other form of theropy as well, so he doesn't always respond to inquiries. That's understandable.
The mufflers I used were two dynomax super turbos part number 17793. The inlet and outlet is 2.5 inches. The flow rate is 520 cfm per muffler. The mufflers are very very quiet.
I did not use Shelby tips for the exhaust system because the diameter of the tubing inside the tips was about 1.75 inches.
The dropped steering bracket was installed and welded in place so I don't know if the headers required the installation of a dropped steering bracket.
My long term battle with various name brand shortie hoses for the power ram was solved with a pair of hoses from Rodie's Restoration located at 1406 Lohr Road in Galion, Ohio. The hoses have different end pieces than those from the factory.
Lauran
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 03, 2020, 08:52:13 AM
There is no perfect header for a big block. All the ones that I know of have some sort of issues. Some have issues larger then others.
It would seem that a larger tube would be desireable but I suppose the answer is virtually any tube diameter with full length tubes is so drastically different then even the CJ iron manifolds.
I haven't tried them, but show me where shorties are nothing more then bigger tube cast iron manifolds.
I agree that I'd like the collectors of the Hookers long tubes to be higher but unless you are going Pro racing and need bigger tubes, they are a good compromise.
The extended power steering bracket mounting needs additional bracing on ALL Mustangs.
Prof.Gains had a custom set of big tube, 2-1/4" primaries I think, headers on a 67 427 GT500. I think they must have been mounted with some kind of a peel and stick mounting system?
He had posted pictures of them on the crashed forum previously. Maybe he can find those pictures and post them again? He does need a break to rest his fingers from typing here and he apparently does some other form of theropy as well, so he doesn't always respond to inquiries. That's understandable.
Here are some.
More.
WOW!! What does the engine compartment fitment look like?
Quote from: Side-Oilers on May 03, 2020, 11:05:57 PM
WOW!! What does the engine compartment fitment look like?
Tight .
That is a true act of mastery, Bob!
It must take about six weeks to get the bolts in? No power steering with them either.
I might try the Doug's with the cross overs if power steering isn't possible.
I don't remember the flat collectors on those Bob. Is there another set you have/had that I am thinking of? Those are 2" primaries?
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 04, 2020, 07:53:24 AM
It must take about six weeks to get the bolts in? No power steering with them either.
I might try the Doug's with the cross overs if power steering isn't possible.
I don't remember the flat collectors on those Bob. Is there another set you have/had that I am thinking of? Those are 2" primaries?
On mine in the pictures I remember it took me over 8 hours to install.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 04, 2020, 10:45:56 AM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 04, 2020, 07:53:24 AM
It must take about six weeks to get the bolts in? No power steering with them either.
I might try the Doug's with the cross overs if power steering isn't possible.
I don't remember the flat collectors on those Bob. Is there another set you have/had that I am thinking of? Those are 2" primaries?
On mine in the pictures I remember it took me over 8 hours to install.
The current price on custom built headers like that is around $4,000.
Often, the thrill is in the eye of the beholder. Would you say that set was worth the extra effort and money?
Hello Everyone,
I no longer have this complete JBA exhaust system that I had custom made for 0100 back in the very early 90's. The header tubes were 2" at the head and then stepped to 2-1/8" and went into 3.5" collectors. The middle section was 3" into the mufflers and then 2.5" out the rear of the mufflers and over the axle housing then out to the rear of the car. We cut a set of repro exhaust extensions to fit the 2.5" tail pipes.
The car now has a set of conventional JBA SS Tri-Y headers with the rest of the system being SS that is 2.5" and uses SS Spin Tech mufflers.
Thanks,
Eric
That system is typical of JBA welding and quality.
The JBA stainless Tri - Y headers fit perfectly in the '68 GT500. They are 2" primary. If there is a thing named perfection associated with FE headers these are that. Installing the bolts was a chore but thankfully something that you won't have to do every day. The nice thing about stainless is that if you do need to put a dent in for some reason it is not ruining the ceramic finish. I did not have to dent anything as the fit was perfect, as was the fit of the JBA H pipe.
Quote from: 67411F--0100-ENG. on May 04, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
Hello Everyone,
I no longer have this complete JBA exhaust system that I had custom made for 0100 back in the very early 90's. The header tubes were 2" at the head and then stepped to 2-1/8" and went into 3.5" collectors. The middle section was 3" into the mufflers and the 2.5" out the rear of the mufflers and over the axle housing then out to the rear of the car. We cut a set of repro exhaust extensions to fit the 2.5" tail pipes.
The car now has a set of conventional JBA SS Tri-Y headers with the rest of the system being SS that is 2.5" and uses SS Spin Tech mufflers.
Thanks,
Eric
The correct part number for the dynomax super turbo mufflers I used is 17733 not 17793.
Lauran
Thanks everyone for the great info. It really helped me put a set of headers on my '67 R Code Fairlane.
It was a tight fit but it worked out great!. That motor is really breathing now.
I bought Mad Dog Headers after a strong recommendation from a friend who has used them several times. Great set with good quality. Easy to install. Took about six weeks to get them built and shipped. Tight clearance on the driver's side shock tower but nothing terrible.
I had to remove the starter, alternator and motor mounts. Jacked up the motor about three inches. Not too bad after all that stuff is out of the way.
The original cast iron headers and the original "H" pipe exhaust were in great shape but the small (2-1/4") size were creating a fair amount of back pressure.
When I was taking it apart I found a flapper valve on the passenger side directly after the cast iron header. Someone told me it was to provide heat to the automatic choke. ??? Seems like an odd way to do that.
I put 3" pipes all the way out the rear with a set Moroso Spriral Flow mufflers and a set of cutouts. Sounds great!! The motor has been "improved" and when I open the cutouts it is LOUD!!!! I have side exits on 6S135 but this is another dimension of loud. Wife says it is brutal, vicious and ferocious. I get a perma-smile that lasts for about an hour after reving through the cutouts. Through the mufflers with the windows up it is quite enjoyable.
Great looking setup! Yes, I'll bet it sounds awesome.
Appears that your old heat riser valve has been wired to be always open. Therefore no restriction while the car warms up.
I usually do the same thing on my old cars.
I can't tell but are the cutouts the remote electric valve activated variety or manual ?
All fantastic pictures. Thank you to all who have posted.
They all must sound like a Saturn missile launching with the collectors open?
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 10, 2020, 08:31:00 PM
I can't tell but are the cutouts the remote electric valve activated variety or manual ?
Electrically actuated. Switch is under the dash.
No holes were drilled and no hammering on any panels or towers. All the original equipment is safely stored in my attic.
Quote from: maxjets on October 11, 2020, 08:27:23 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 10, 2020, 08:31:00 PM
I can't tell but are the cutouts the remote electric valve activated variety or manual ?
Electrically actuated. Switch is under the dash.
No holes were drilled and no hammering on any panels or towers. All the original equipment is safely stored in my attic.
Party on.