Hi, from a newbie, to my soon to be new friends.
I just purchased a 1969 Shelby GT 500, grabber blue car, and am looking for guidance in the restoration process. I am aware that most restoration books tend to be mediocre at best, but could you fine folks point me to one of the better books out there for reference? And please don't be afraid to point out what is wrong in those books.
I have been professionally restoring cars for nearly 40 years now. But my specialty has always leaned toward the Mopars. I tend to be very detailed conscious, and strive to be as authentic and correct as I can for putting a car together. I am aware that there are always nuances and inconsistencies (which is why I am asking for YOUR help) to minimize as many mistakes, and reworks, as I can.
You, as current owners, enthusiasts, and knowledgeable experts can also help me (and hopefully others) by pointing out some of the more common mistakes made in restoring Shelby's. Anything to prevent me from having to redo something (because I did wrong the first time) will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks to everyone in advance.
First of kasearch@ix.netcom.com welcome to Shelby ownership. I think you will find that there are individuals on this forum that will be of more assistance concerning your car than most, if not all, the books in publication. Hopefully these same individuals will post there thoughts and offer to lend you assistance as needed. Best of luck, if you have specific questions I would post them to get you started.
Thanks Steven. I can use all the help that is out there. I want this car to be right when done (next year - I hope).
Agree with the previous comments by CSX 4133. There is no one book or even a collection of books that will answer all the questions you will come up with in this process. Also every book has it's mistakes or some dated information that you will be likely unable to discern from the correct information.
At the same time some basic starting points will be the Mustang & Shelby Assembly manuals but cross and double check what you find there since workers didn't always follow what Ford engineers wanted and things changed during production. Always keep in mind when your specific project was assembled since that created differences also.
Suggest you just start reading through all the 69 post in that section of the site as that will likely help you determine exactly how far to take the restoration your doing, educate yourself all the while helping you start forming questions. Challenge will be that you don't know what you don't know so the learning curve can be steep but like many others it can be done. Just no Easy button.
Lots of years of experience here – waiting to help were we can.
Also don't want to forget to mention that if your car has not been restored sometime in the past don't just start stripping it until you document. There are details you need from your unrestored car that no one else can tell you for sure and documentation of what it was will really help in the future when there are choices or questions. This is not to say that things don't get changed by prior owners or other shops it's just that once details are gone you can't include that information is decisions in the future and many owners/shops make this mistake.
couldn't agree with you more Jeff about the details. I usually photograph everything as I disassemble. Unfortunately, this car has been gone through before I bought it, including a color change. I do have the manuals on order for the car but hoping for some "basic" info before I begin to tackle the true detail. That's what I was hoping to find in a general knowledge book. I am sure that I will be posting a lot more in the future to ask all of you for input. Just looking to make a super nice car for my wife.
Hi--I have Grabber blue fairly rare, only 1 of 18 and then it was also the car that was not sold to dealer but to Shelby Corporate Office---since you have done it before you realy do not need whom to deal with , BUT whom not to deal with. Most of the people that will go out of the way to help you are the nicest people you can possibly dream to ever meet. In my own experience I was my own worst enemy for being shy to ask questions. Do remember for every question you ask there is another 1000 of us waning also to know the answer. In a nut shell you are not alone you are rather in good company with some of the nicest people . However guards up when buying parts, stay away from guys like Andrew and few more. my experience pay more from established collectors and shops, and you will have parts that work and are correct --Good luck---John
Thanks for the insight John. And I will be very cautious and as always, I will question everything (until I get a consensus where most agree). As for Andrew, I do not know of whom you speak. Please, EVERYONE, do share your experiences and guidance. It will be appreciated.
I think most on the forum will agree this eBay seller has a long history of deceptive practices. He has several eBay ids as well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-mustang-shelby-gt350-500-fastback-NOS-steering-wheel-emblem-original-fomoco/332938199101?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180816085401%26meid%3D1bd6bde20ac04c08bc59353367299578%26pid%3D100970%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D292772743201%26itm%3D332938199101&_trksid=p2481888.c100970.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A38c65c5f-7af9-11e9-ab87-74dbd180edda%7Cparentrq%3Ad52cc7b516a0ab4573df2a59ffd2d108%7Ciid%3A1
Yes, he is better known as the Pookie! Burnsville, N.C. is the key location as Coralsnake notes he has MANY names!
Steve
By the way, judging by your most recent other post: Restoration: returning the car to its first delivered by the dealer state of condition.
Painting up, prettying it up, cleaning it up, is not restoration. Most of us do this. Its OK, its our car.
Quote from: roddster on May 21, 2019, 09:31:29 AM
................... Restoration: returning the car to its first delivered by the dealer state of condition.
Painting up, prettying it up, cleaning it up, is not restoration. Most of us do this. Its OK, its our car.
+1 Its a choice :)
Roddster (and others) what is everyone's opinion about "over restoring" a car? Highly polishing all the brightwork, No orange peel, etc.
Quote from: kasearch@ix.netcom.com on May 21, 2019, 04:46:26 PM
Roddster (and others) what is everyone's opinion about "over restoring" a car? Highly polishing all the brightwork, No orange peel, etc.
It's just another choice like modifying a car is. Know plenty of owners and builders that can't bring themselves to apply overspray, seam sealers, sound deadeners and other factory practices. Or just want to produce a "nicer" prettier product. Maybe in the circle they run in the factory details are distracting or are seen as flaws. Had one owner who didn't want his 65 painted Wimbledon white because it was a "dirty" white and yes he didn't want orange peel either though he eventually saw the value in going with the factory look.
Some of these improved cars end up attending Concours D'Elegance shows and do better at those.
KAsearch, welcome. I'm from the Mother Mopar camp from way back and, like you, have acquired a liking for Shelbys. I'm glad you have your first Shelby. Mine is still off in the future.
You gave me a tough question. It depends a lot on what venue you plan to display the car at. Some judging is easy going, some others are exacting. Some you wish you just handed over the paint, sealers and stuff and say to them "install it to your dream idea", because you never understand exactly what they want, or why. Some have an ajenda, some don't like private restorers, some don't like "that" restoration place.
These cars where assembled at Ford by about 2000 different people, and with Shelbys add in some 50 more. Every one is different, day to day not the same, day to day not "in the mood". So variences happen. I wish some judges would recognize that.
But, in the end you have to put a car together that makes you step back and say "I did that".
Good luck with your Fix-up, or restoration. What ever you choose. Enjoy.
Quote from: roddster on May 22, 2019, 09:55:11 AM
You gave me a tough question. It depends a lot on what venue you plan to display the car at. Some judging is easy going, some others are exacting. Some you wish you just handed over the paint, sealers and stuff and say to them "install it to your dream idea", because you never understand exactly what they want, or why. Some have an ajenda, some don't like private restorers, some don't like "that" restoration place.
These cars where assembled at Ford by about 2000 different people, and with Shelbys add in some 50 more. Every one is different, day to day not the same, day to day not "in the mood". So variences happen. I wish some judges would recognize that.
But, in the end you have to put a car together that makes you step back and say "I did that".
Good luck with your Fix-up, or restoration. What ever you choose. Enjoy.
Just like cars can be different so can the Judges. For example adept judges understand that there is a range of appearance to be considered in many areas of the cars to be looked at.
Quote from: kasearch@ix.netcom.com on May 18, 2019, 03:24:23 PM
Thanks Steven. I can use all the help that is out there. I want this car to be right when done (next year - I hope).
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php is also a great source including photos of unrestored cars. Jeff Speegle is the moderator of that great site. Welcome. Color change a grabber blue GT500 Shelby? Who would do such a thing? Well I did back in 1990. LOL Gary
(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/w61/shelbymann/01%20my%20old%20mustangs/19332_Front_3-4.jpg) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/shelbymann/p/d28b694d-b833-421c-a615-2cc92694fdb8)
Seems that every time I see a restored MOPAR muscle car, it is restored to perfection. WAY nicer than they originally came.
Appears to be the accepted norm in that camp.
They didn't even bother to line up the headlight doors correctly for a beauty shot.
No one cared to the level of which we do today. Not the factory, not the buyers.
It's a different time now, and that's ok. But, as many many many others have said here, it's your car, do as you wish. If you choose to show it at a SAAC (or other top-level) event, just enter it into the appropriate category and all should be well.
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=5940.msg51425;topicseen#msg51425
Kasearch, as you can see there are plenty of opinions here on the forum. And for the most part we all thrive nicely together. It's one of the strengths of this community – there's room for everything from rough barn finds to concours perfection to race ready, and all things in-between.
You started your post in the Concours section, but made mention of making a nice car for your wife. It sounds like what you want is a "near" concours car that will be reliable for your wife to drive. If that's the case, please let us know. The more specific you are about your goal the more appropriate advice you'll get.
Welcome aboard the Shelby train. I hope you have a great ride.
Steve
Let me rephrase my initial question.
There are dozens of books out there on restoring a "Mustang". Which one has the most correct, or close advice on items like; was the car painted with the fenders on, hence the fender bolts are body color - or no, teh fenders were put on after the car was painted and the used X bolts to attach them; what style of bolt is used to attach the fenders (hex head, hex washer head, SEMS, etc - and I do know better than to go to Home Depot and buy, and use, a box of grade 8 bolts to mount the fender); what plating is on the bolt (Phosphate, zinc, black oxide, etc); what items have overspray and where does it start/end; where the car does not receive body color, what is showing - primer, and what color? I can guess pretty close to the answer at a lot of these questions. I KNOW that no one book contains ALL the answers but is there a book that will get me at least started? What book would you recommend as a fair starting point. There has to be an way to finish the statement, "If you really want to have a book to refer to, I would suggest getting.......". I can then begin to narrow it down from there.
Well , I have been around for a few decades and dont recall seeing anything like that.
The engineering manuals are helpful but, they do not address the Shelby unique aspects of the car.
I would suggest a visit to the SAAC convention or the Tulsa Ford meet to visit with people who have been on the same journey
Youre going to need an understanding of how the cars were built, both by Ford and then converted into Shelbys by AO Smith
http://www.thecoralsnake.com/1969Plantpics
Very cool and informative, Pete.
Did you ever get to talk/correspond with any of the old timers at Smith? Charlie Droste must have a ton of stories.
Yes, I have spoken to several Smith employees
Quote from: 2112 on May 22, 2019, 12:28:48 PM
Seems that every time I see a restored MOPAR muscle car, it is restored to perfection. WAY nicer than they originally came.
Appears to be the accepted norm in that camp.
When restoring my vert I was at those crossroads. I also started back in 1996 and it is much different than it is today. Do I want to do it exactly like the factory or the way I wanted. Lets be real most restorations done the car isn't EXACTLY how it left the factory. Try duplicating the underside jet sprayed paint and color. So as I documented my vert I was NOT going to duplicate how my car left the factory underneath(see pics). I'd have to keep it bare metal in spots. So I spent 6 months in my garage perfecting my original floors frame rails etc for an over restored look. I love it. I also put white stripes on my car. I'm the one who has to look at it and with no intentions of selling it I did my car the way I wanted but kept it concours as much as possible to my liking. I cleared in the hood stripes as the car is also BC CC.
Original factory finish
(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/w61/shelbymann/ashelbypan1.jpg) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/shelbymann/p/8c3a372c-d9b8-43fc-aa44-5114af70974f)
non factory all candy apple red.
(https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/w61/shelbymann/shelbybottomaa.jpg) (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/shelbymann/p/ccb9599f-ab0b-4331-b296-49ff88010378)
You are right SFM6S087. I am looking for a NEAR concourse car. I don't mind the overspray, but to be criticized by one person saying that it should only go 8-10" under the body where someone else will say that 3 feet under is correct, is NOT where I want to go. I'll let others fight over that. A simple overspray on the undercarriage is all that I am concerned with and need to know. I fully intend to make the vehicle in to what I like. If someone else doesn't approve, they are welcome to try to buy it and redo it in there own image. I am simply looking to avoid MAJOR faux pas' like using Home Depot shelf bolts as fender bolts. I do appreciate the advice and will continue to ask. Just keep me point in the right direction
Having done this before on other cars I'm sure you know you have a lot of work ahead of you. But you have already achieved a major goal by deciding what you want, and expressing that clearly on this forum – "NEAR" concours. That should get you off to a good start.
There are knowledgeable and helpful members here, and knowing that goal should help them tailor their advice to your specific situation.
BTW, you are in good company. I know a few hard core concours owners, but most of the owners I know feel the same way you do – near concours – with a tilt toward reliability and possibly a little extra power is their objective.
Finally, I don't think there's any book that comes even close to what you're asking about. I hate to say it, but you're probably going to have to attend some events and examine other cars to get the info you need. That's where those true hard core concours people really come in handy. You can look at their cars (and take lots of pictures) to see what is technically correct, then decide for yourself how close to that you wish to get.
Steve
A few more tips:
1) what Pete said ( coralsnake)
2) all of the Osbourn manuals. BUT- open to interpretation as to your car's build date, and also AO Smiths
3) Beware the assembly plant. Each had differences. Your Shelby was built at one.
4) Attend SAAC shows, Nationals, regionals, Locals. You might even catch a Shelby at an MCA show. Take photos and notes from correctly restored cars, not just any niced-up car.
as an FYI, my car was built 6/13/69 at Dearborn. Based on this, if there are any nuances that would help me, I would appreciate it.
I believe there is a panting reference guide on the concours mustang we site for 69 Dearborn cars
There is an undercarriage article was posted on this site and CMF also
http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=929.msg6979#msg6979 (http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=929.msg6979#msg6979)
Quote from: kasearch@ix.netcom.com on May 28, 2019, 01:02:30 PM
as an FYI, my car was built 6/13/69 at Dearborn. Based on this, if there are any nuances that would help me, I would appreciate it.
Your car (been a long thread so can't recall its current condition) will be your best guide for many details if it hasn't been played with too much. Since there are so many details you might want to break down the questions by area as going through the whole car at one time will be confusing, very very long and there is a greater chance to miss something.
If the car has not already been redone once or more check what color the main floor was as well as the front wheel wells and frame rails. You will need this for later
Quote from: kasearch@ix.netcom.com on May 28, 2019, 01:02:30 PM
as an FYI, my car was built 6/13/69 at Dearborn. Based on this, if there are any nuances that would help me, I would appreciate it.
you saw in my prior pic how my car was sprayed in that dark charcoal black batch paint mixture with the red overspray on the ribs. May 6 build. My friend's original paint 69 Boss 429 survivor is different than mine. His built in April. Dependent on batch paint colors and how the sprayers on the line were working all make for very unique undersides in my opinion. Gary