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SAAC HQ => Concours Talk => Topic started by: Kent on January 30, 2019, 10:37:03 PM

Title: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on January 30, 2019, 10:37:03 PM
Should the Steering Box on a GT500/350 be a C7ZR-A or C6ZR-A and did they always had SMB-K Boxes?
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: JD on January 30, 2019, 10:42:07 PM
I believe the GT350's the steering wheel shaft goes from in the box to the steering wheel hub as all one piece.  The GT500's have a stub shaft splined for a rag-joint just outside of the box and a shaft from the rag joint to the steering wheel hub.

Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on January 30, 2019, 10:46:03 PM
I need to know it more for the GT500 but I would wonder if the 67 GT350 is different because it was a K Code car and I thought the 67 K Code also had the rag joint
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: JD on January 30, 2019, 10:51:43 PM
Quote from: Kent on January 30, 2019, 10:46:03 PM
I need to know it more for the GT500 but I would wonder if the 67 GT350 is different because it was a K Code car and I thought the 67 K Code also had the rag joint

No, my understanding is the GT350 (Small Block) the box & long shaft could be removed and serviced with the engine in the car, the GT500 (Big Block) got the rag joint so the box could be removed and serviced without removing the engine.  I think you want a SMB-E for a '67 GT500, others will comment.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on January 30, 2019, 11:00:16 PM
SMB-E cant be because of the 1" sector shaft I believe it was a SMB-K with a 1 1/8 sector shaft on a GT500 maybe somebody can verify this?
On my unrestored GT500 67 its a SMB-K box...
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: JWH on January 30, 2019, 11:13:00 PM
My research agrees with JD that the GT350 cars got the steering box with the longer shaft that ran from the box all the way to the steering wheel. The GT500s received the boxes with the very short shaft that was then connected to another shaft running to the steering wheel by a rag joint. The early GT500s (seems like it is always "early" vs "late" on '67 cars) got the SMB-E box that had the 1" shaft and later cars got the box with the 1 1/8" shaft. I am not certain what the approximate date was where the boxes changed from 1" to 1 1/8" but here is a reference that may help --
http://www.stangerssite.com/steeringboxtagdecoder.html
Jeff
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Bob Gaines on January 30, 2019, 11:19:59 PM
Quote from: JWH on January 30, 2019, 11:13:00 PM
My research agrees with JD that the GT350 cars got the steering box with the longer shaft that ran from the box all the way to the steering wheel. The GT500s received the boxes with the very short shaft that was then connected to another shaft running to the steering wheel by a rag joint. The early GT500s (seems like it is always "early" vs "late" on '67 cars) got the SMB-E box that had the 1" shaft and later cars got the box with the 1 1/8" shaft. I am not certain what the approximate date was where the boxes changed from 1" to 1 1/8" but here is a reference that may help --
http://www.stangerssite.com/steeringboxtagdecoder.html
Jeff
I believe the change over (SB) to the rag joint was approximate May 67 . I believe the date is in Master Parts Catalog . 
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on January 30, 2019, 11:24:31 PM
Ok so everybody is right  ;D the change on the GT500 from SMB-E to SMB-K need to be also in early may because mine is a june car and has a smb-k.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on January 31, 2019, 02:43:00 AM
I have a November '67 GT500. 1" sector shaft, two piece steering column. SMB-E on the tag.

                                                               -Keith
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on January 31, 2019, 03:58:47 AM
wow ok was your GT500 built in november???? How that? I thought after july 1967 there was not a real lax production anymore last 67 shelby was built at end of july, lax closed in august... what´s your shelby number?
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on January 31, 2019, 05:15:28 AM
All 67 Shelby production were built at LAX.  It's a Nov 66 built, 67 GT500.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on January 31, 2019, 05:22:44 AM
Kent:
Randy may be able to help you with the gear box.

                                                     -Keith

http://www.stangerssite.com/
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on January 31, 2019, 04:14:02 PM
Ok november 66 makes sense, thats what I thought some hours later when thinking about it again, so you have a "early bird"
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 02, 2019, 10:00:35 AM
ok for the late may Shelby GT500 is it a C7ZR-A or C6ZR-A Core, difficult to see it on my GT500 because its inside to the sheetmetal
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 67350#1242 on February 02, 2019, 12:05:06 PM
The short box is probably C7 since it came later than the long one.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: acman63 on February 02, 2019, 12:33:20 PM
If you give me your Tag info I can tell you if its a long shaft,  large or small sector.  The Ford parts book will tell what parts go to each box.  Ill do a little looking when I get a chance
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on February 02, 2019, 04:07:07 PM
SMB-E Short shaft, small sector.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 03, 2019, 01:35:36 AM
Fastback S Code GT with power steering 1967 built in June 20 and I think it should be a smb-k not a smb-e and it should be C6ZR

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Ford-Mustang-Lenkgetriebe-1966-Lenkung-7F22-C6ZR-0550A-SMBK-7H16B/272129865711?hash=item3f5c3437ef:g:pCUAAOSwll1Wu0Sn:rk:1:pf:0

this smb-k box is from june 22 and completed in august and it still got the C6ZR
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on February 03, 2019, 02:14:27 AM
All FE powered cars are short shaft gear boxes.  It shows the SMB- E was used until 5-1-67. SMB-K  replaced the E box.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 03, 2019, 06:02:16 PM
may 1 thats what I said before because my 67 shelby gt500 has a smb-k from factory 100% but I cant see if its a C6ZR or C7ZR because it is in the car. I need the info for my s code I´m building
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: J_Speegle on February 03, 2019, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: Kent on February 03, 2019, 06:02:16 PM
.............I need the info for my s code I´m building

Then  it might help if we knew when and where the S code Mustang was built. In that way we could just focus on that period and plant ;)
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 04, 2019, 02:57:36 AM
june 20 2017
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: J_Speegle on February 04, 2019, 04:44:15 AM
Quote from: Kent on February 04, 2019, 02:57:36 AM
june 20 2017

Guess you meant June 20 1967 based on your earlier post. Yes the C6ZA 3550A casting number for the main case/body of the steering box assembly were still being used at San Jose
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 04, 2019, 11:48:28 AM
Thats what I thought so I have it together right. Thanks to everybody, great forum
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on February 04, 2019, 12:52:41 PM
No, the short box isn't late production item. It came on ALL big block cars. The difference is the sector shaft.
Kent, you don't have to pull the box. Look at the casting number on the pitman arm.  If it's the 1" sector you'll have C4ZA-9530-A, if you have the 1 1/8" sector you'll have C7ZA-3590-C. That is the actual casting numbers on the pitman arms.

                                                                                       -Keith
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 04, 2019, 05:15:11 PM
I already know smb-e in early GT500 then smb-k since may GT500, the question was more for a s code but as they all started as big block cars its pretty much the same. And I knew it should be smb-k my question was more if its a C7ZR-A or C6ZR-A Core and I think we solved it also, I have seen some C7ZR-A boxes with date codes starting in the end of summer 1967 but may and june boxes were C6ZR-A.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on February 05, 2019, 12:22:12 AM
The change over starts on 01 May.  The difference in the casting number is Sector size.   You could even have a C4DR-A box. Do you have a fill plug on the 9" housing at the rear?
                                                       -Keith
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: J_Speegle on February 05, 2019, 12:27:49 AM
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 04, 2019, 12:52:41 PM
................ if you have the 1 1/8" sector you'll have C7ZA-3590-C. That is the actual casting numbers on the pitman arms.

Since the focus of his questions are not Shelby it could also have a C7ZA-3590-B though few 390 67'a were likely ordered/built :)



Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 05, 2019, 12:22:12 AM
..........You could even have a C4DR-A box. ......

?  If original how could that be given his build date and application?

What is the latest casting date you have for one of those?
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on February 05, 2019, 01:06:22 AM
I spoke to Randy on these and got the chart. I have a C4DR-A housing and a C4ZA-A pitman. Correct for '67 with a 1" sector.  Gear boxes aren't specific to Shelby, but all mustang production. The break for all cars between the 1" sector and the 1 1/8 shows to be about May, as does the rear  9" housing change over with the fill plug.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: J_Speegle on February 05, 2019, 03:53:36 AM
Quote from: 1967 eight barrel on February 05, 2019, 01:06:22 AM
I spoke to Randy on these and got the chart. I have a C4DR-A housing and a C4ZA-A pitman. Correct for '67 with a 1" sector.  Gear boxes aren't specific to Shelby, but all mustang production. The break for all cars between the 1" sector and the 1 1/8 shows to be about May,......

Not sure what the chart is that you referred to and what it tracks. MPC's reference the May 1 date but we know that production didn't always follow those and if that was the production of the castings, the completed boxes or the car's themselves. Don't want to go into the rearend housing subject since that is apples and oranges. We've touched on that before either before or after the forum crash here. 

Car in question is over a month and a half after the May date if its a car production date.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on February 05, 2019, 04:13:54 AM
I was simply trying to give him an external way to identify what sector size he has based on the pitman arm casting numbers. There are also NO big block cars with a long shaft gear box.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Bob Gaines on February 05, 2019, 06:04:15 PM
That May 67 date also was when all of the boxes regardless of if BB or SB when to rag joint.
Title: Re: Steering Box 1967 Shelby Question
Post by: Kent on February 06, 2019, 03:47:50 AM
Correct