SAAC Forum

The Cars => 1969-1970 Shelby GT350/500 => Topic started by: Fastback66 on November 22, 2018, 08:35:44 AM

Title: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Fastback66 on November 22, 2018, 08:35:44 AM
When were the 70 Shelby VIN numbers changed? Was it prior to dealership delivery, or were the cars delivered as 69's to the dealership and later returned for a vin change? I'm just courios about the details.

Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Special Ed on November 22, 2018, 08:45:45 AM
Fall of 69 KK plant & all the paperwork  & some decals were changed over everything but the 69 body code #s on top shock towers under fenders.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Coralsnake on November 22, 2018, 09:06:39 AM
translation: Before dealer at Kar Kraft (what ED said)
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Fastback66 on November 22, 2018, 09:11:50 AM
The cars went from AO Smith to KK? Did all 69-70 Shelby's go through KK or just the 70's?
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Coralsnake on November 22, 2018, 09:20:07 AM
Just the 1970 cars.

In case you're keeping track the third production facility for vintage Shelbys

LA Airport, Ionia and Brighton
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Coralsnake on November 22, 2018, 09:23:01 AM
Smith declined to build the 1970s for various reasons. One of which, was non payment. This effectively ended the Shelby program .
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Fastback66 on November 22, 2018, 09:24:58 AM
Interesting, I guess this explains my spindles with the KK stamp. So Kar Kraft did the "big suspension" conversion as well?
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Coralsnake on November 22, 2018, 09:33:34 AM
I dont believe the suspension changes had any relationship to the move. I dont think KK Brighton updated suspensions, it was strictly updating 1969s to get them sold.  The suspension changes happened much earlier and were related to the intoduction of larger tires. Pretty sure there are a few small suspension 1970s, but if not, I await correction.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: acman63 on November 22, 2018, 12:13:46 PM
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 22, 2018, 09:20:07 AM
Just the 1970 cars.

In case you're keeping track the third production facility for vintage Shelbys

LA Airport, Ionia and Brighton

Don't forget Venice before they moved to Airport
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Special Ed on November 22, 2018, 12:58:56 PM
KK never changed anything on suspension the KKX spindles were installed in dearborn plant late march on until the doza -a (69 b2 spindles) were used.  There are some early built unsold 69 shelbys converted to 70s  but most were later unsold 69 shelbys.  Read your invoice bottom rh side has stamped date your 70 was done at  KK plant usually fall winter 69.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: SFM66H on November 22, 2018, 02:32:50 PM
Quote from: Fastback66 on November 22, 2018, 08:35:44 AM
When were the 70 Shelby VIN numbers changed? Was it prior to dealership delivery, or were the cars delivered as 69's to the dealership and later returned for a vin change? I'm just courios about the details.

I have read that every 1969 to 1970 Shelby VIN tag change had to witnessed by an FBI agent during the process.

Is that a known fact or an urban myth?
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: aj on November 23, 2018, 04:38:19 PM
FWIW...My 70 GT500  (481357) is small suspension car built fairly early...02/26/69.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Coralsnake on November 23, 2018, 06:04:34 PM
Cant find anything to support the FBI story, but its possible.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: The Old Ranger on November 23, 2018, 06:34:03 PM
QuoteI have read that every 1969 to 1970 Shelby VIN tag change had to witnessed by an FBI agent during the process.

Is that a known fact or an urban myth?

Hoping to get a definitive answer to this very question, in 2015, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the FBI. The official response was that there were no records pertaining to this subject.
   So this could mean that there was never an FBI agent on site, but yet it still leaves
the possibility that there was an agent on site who either did not file a report or did file a report which was ultimately lost or destroyed.
(//)

Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: SFM66H on November 23, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Tom,

Thanks for your response. That's crazy that you have already 'been there, done that.' Incredible!

Can you post a larger/more readable version of your attachment here, or could I PM you for a 150 dpi scan?

Thanks,
Kieth
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 23, 2018, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: Tom Bosilevac on November 23, 2018, 06:34:03 PM
QuoteI have read that every 1969 to 1970 Shelby VIN tag change had to witnessed by an FBI agent during the process.

Is that a known fact or an urban myth?

Hoping to get a definitive answer to this very question, in 2015, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the FBI. The official response was that there were no records pertaining to this subject.
   So this could mean that there was never an FBI agent on site, but yet it still leaves
the possibility that there was an agent on site who either did not file a report or did file a report which was ultimately lost or destroyed.
(//)
The urban legend used to be that the FBI had to oversee the change when it was done at dealerships . That always struck me as impractical . No support evidence ever showed up to verify that theory/myth. The new and improved consensus of opinion is that all the update to the 70 VIN was done at KK .That makes the most sense and what I have always thought. My guess because I doubt we will get anything more concrete is that most likely there was a agent that had to sign off on the update being done to a number of cars at one time instead of having a permanent desk on site 5 days a week or whatever  . Hopefully something will turn up to nail this down.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: aj on November 28, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
13 months between build date and sold date on the Marti for my '70.

Order Received:         01/02/70
Car Serialized:           01/30/69
Bucked:                     02/21/69
Scheduled for Build:    02/26/69
Actually Built:             02/26/69
Sold:                         03/20/70

I've always been curious where the car was located during those 13 months.  Did it lingered unsold on the dealer's lot or ???...and then what...re-VIN at dealer or perhaps shipped back to KK.

Or did it remain static in Ford's inventory...eventually re-VIN then sent to dealer.  But seems like a big gap  there (13 months).

Not as familiar with dates as experts, but the 02/26/69 build date seems early to remained unsold and result in re-VIN to a '70.   

Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Coralsnake on November 28, 2018, 02:10:48 PM
It probably sat in AO Smiths lot, until it was shipped to KK Brighton. The reason it was renumbered is because it was unsold. Ford or a dealer is not in this equation.

(http://www.thecoralsnake.com/92720012a.jpg)
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Special Ed on November 28, 2018, 03:06:45 PM
Those 69 shelbys in petes photo are all early built no grabber colors & e-70-15 tires before april HD F-60-15  big suspension changeover .
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 28, 2018, 11:13:01 PM
Not all 69 Shelbys were changed out at KK. Some were done on Market street in Livonia(many buildings on Market street now are owned by Jack Roush). While at a roush open house in 2017  a longtime acquaintance  of mine pointed down the street and said he converted 69 Shelbys to 70s. He still has the 69 VIN tags for those 69s he changed out. Obviously i won't post his name here but is a heavy hitter in the Ford circles and used to run the Ford performance hotline. Gary
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 28, 2018, 11:18:00 PM
Quote from: aj on November 28, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
13 months between build date and sold date on the Marti for my '70.

Order Received:         01/02/70
Car Serialized:           01/30/69
Bucked:                     02/21/69
Scheduled for Build:    02/26/69
Actually Built:             02/26/69
Sold:                         03/20/70

I've always been curious where the car was located during those 13 months.  Did it lingered unsold on the dealer's lot or ???...and then what...re-VIN at dealer or perhaps shipped back to KK.

Or did it remain static in Ford's inventory...eventually re-VIN then sent to dealer.  But seems like a big gap  there (13 months).

Not as familiar with dates as experts, but the 02/26/69 build date seems early to remained unsold and result in re-VIN to a '70.   
Larry Lawrence paid a pilot to take an aerial view of Kar Kraft back then. It has been seen in a few sites. He lent the pic to a president of some club and never got it back. At his age and health a few years ago Larry couldn't remember who he lent it to. In the photo many Shelbys along with bosses can be seen. Larry, as a 19 year old, was hired basically by mistake to do the paint work at KK. He now owns a  collision shop in Brighton not far from the original KK location. His video of KK in 1969 has been around the internet and facebook on the brighton historical society page. Gary
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: shelbymann1970 on November 28, 2018, 11:25:55 PM
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 23, 2018, 06:04:34 PM
Cant find anything to support the FBI story, but its possible.
Well the guy I know who VIN changed in  some told me the FBI wasn't there and he still has 69 VIN tags.  Gary
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Special Ed on November 28, 2018, 11:30:04 PM
Gary u must be talking about john v
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 29, 2018, 12:21:08 AM
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on November 28, 2018, 11:25:55 PM
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 23, 2018, 06:04:34 PM
Cant find anything to support the FBI story, but its possible.
Well the guy I know who VIN changed in  some told me the FBI wasn't there and he still has 69 VIN tags.  Gary
My guess is that the FBI more like rubber stamped the procedure paperwork wise. It would not seem practical or reasonable that a G man had desk and was at the plant during all of the shifts supervising the change.
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Special Ed on November 29, 2018, 10:09:34 AM
Would be nice to find someday if ford would have kept the 69  shelby buck ,door & dash tags along with all warranty tags & window stickers after being converted to 70 models. I have seen some 70 shelbys that had the 2 aluminum 69 metal door tag rivets pushed back in the 2 lower door holes after the 69 metal door tag was removed to fill the holes. Wonder what happened to all the 69 distributors & automatic choke parts removed from the 70 shelbys anybody know?
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 29, 2018, 12:01:01 PM
Quote from: Special Ed on November 29, 2018, 10:09:34 AM
Would be nice to find someday if ford would have kept the 69  shelby buck ,door & dash tags along with all warranty tags & window stickers after being converted to 70 models. I have seen some 70 shelbys that had the 2 aluminum 69 metal door tag rivets pushed back in the 2 lower door holes after the 69 metal door tag was removed to fill the holes. Wonder what happened to all the 69 distributors & automatic choke parts removed from the 70 shelbys anybody know?
You have them in your basement ? Or did Donna move them too? ;D
Title: Re: VIN Change on 70 Shelby’s
Post by: Side-Oilers on November 29, 2018, 02:53:43 PM
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 28, 2018, 02:10:48 PM
It probably sat in AO Smiths lot, until it was shipped to KK Brighton. The reason it was renumbered is because it was unsold. Ford or a dealer is not in this equation.

(http://www.thecoralsnake.com/92720012a.jpg)

Imagine that same photo location, but with snow covering the cars, as it most certainly would have looked a few weeks before or after. 
Cold & lonely '69s awaiting someone to love them.