anyone know where J2 is or was parted it out? are there any photos of it wrecked (I saw one from the "old site) long ago...phred
From what I heard it was destroyed because they couldn't upgrade the reinforcements in that chassis. There is a guy who has built a replica from the original prints.
The Bread Wagon has always been my favorite.
There was one at the Cobra Experience in Martinez (Drew Serb's place). I didn't take a pic from the front and the display board. So I couldn't say what chassis this one was. This was during SAAC 43.
~Earl J
Quote from: papa scoops on October 16, 2018, 08:30:40 PM
anyone know where J2 is or was parted it out? are there any photos of it wrecked (I saw one from the "old site) long ago...phred
My notes have it listed as destroyed after the Miles fatal wreck. I've only seen two photos of it, this one gets around a lot.
I've never seen the wreck photos, not sure I want to.
Quote from: SFM5S000 on October 16, 2018, 09:04:13 PM
There was one at the Cobra Experience in Martinez (Drew Serb's place). I didn't take a pic from the front and the display board. So I couldn't say what chassis this one was. This was during SAAC 43.
~Earl J
That Blue #54 is J-13, the first of seven continuation cars (J13-J19)
Quote from: Richstang on October 16, 2018, 10:40:00 PM
Quote from: papa scoops on October 16, 2018, 08:30:40 PM
anyone know where J2 is or was parted it out? are there any photos of it wrecked (I saw one from the "old site) long ago...phred
My notes have it listed as destroyed after the Miles fatal wreck. I've only seen two photos of it, this one gets around a lot.
I've never seen the wreck photos, not sure I want to.
I don't recall ever seeing any pictures. I've talked to a few former Holman-Moody personnel that said they worked on the project and no one will say what caused the wreck. All have said the crash was so extensive that there was no way of knowing if there was a mechanical failure.
Quote from: Richstang on October 16, 2018, 10:40:00 PM
Quote from: papa scoops on October 16, 2018, 08:30:40 PM
anyone know where J2 is or was parted it out? are there any photos of it wrecked (I saw one from the "old site) long ago...phred
My notes have it listed as destroyed after the Miles fatal wreck. I've only seen two photos of it, this one gets around a lot.
I've never seen the wreck photos, not sure I want to.
I saw the wrecked remains at Holman Moody in 1977 when I was there. It was outside in a fenced off area next to the storage hangar. I could not ( and didn't want to ) get close to it. There was no mistaking the rear portion of the car as J2. I do not know what happened to the tub after I saw it. There was also a wrecked Mustang ( Les Ritchey rip) was killed in it. It too vanished soon after I was there.
Randy
Quote from: gt350hr on October 17, 2018, 10:43:01 AM
There was also a wrecked Mustang ( Les Ritchey rip) was killed in it. It too vanished soon after I was there.
Randy
People forget the contribution that Les Ritchey made to SA. He built/modified all the drag cars for them until his death. I grew up in Covina and it was a hotbed of car stuff. Les Ritchey built the engines for Gas Rhonda and it's said he moved to Russ Davis Ford to be near his engine builder. Ritchey also got his parts made local. Belanger Headers was just down the street from him.
I have this photo in my files (might have been on the old forum ?) marked as Bruce Mclaren in J1 at Riverside tests March '66.
RIP Ken Miles
Mandated changes to the cars probably saved lives including but not limited to Andretti.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on October 16, 2018, 08:58:11 PM
From what I heard it was destroyed because they couldn't upgrade the reinforcements in that chassis. There is a guy who has built a replica from the original prints.
I have one more pic of it I took that day:
Didn't see these posted so I thought I would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKJzC3Z-XpU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CThySPiBzTw
Quote from: honker on October 17, 2018, 08:45:44 PM
I have this photo in my files (might have been on the old forum ?) marked as Bruce Mclaren in J1 at Riverside tests March '66.
That's defiantly J1, the scoop is different on J2.
jim p
Info from Dr. John Craft on the B302 Forum in 2004 about his visit at HM back then..
"...the remains of the Ken Miles J Car(in which he died at Riverside), the remains of the Les Ritchie AFX Mustang... and the remains of the Fireball Roberts '64 H&M Galaxie (in which he was horribly burned at the World 600 in May 1964). When Ford cut H&M loose at the end of the '70 season (via letter dated 12/2/1970), they transfered ownership of the hulks to H&M. Per Lee Holman, the cars were ultimately cut up. "
Quote from: TransamEd on October 18, 2018, 03:57:05 PM
Info from Dr. John Craft on the B302 Forum in 2004 about his visit at HM back then..
"...the remains of the Ken Miles J Car(in which he died at Riverside), the remains of the Les Ritchie AFX Mustang... and the remains of the Fireball Roberts '64 H&M Galaxie (in which he was horribly burned at the World 600 in May 1964). When Ford cut H&M loose at the end of the '70 season (via letter dated 12/2/1970), they transfered ownership of the hulks to H&M. Per Lee Holman, the cars were ultimately cut up. "
Interesting west coast wrecks ended up in the east? I wonder if Ford hired HM to do forensics on the crashes.
Saved some pics - from JC - from inside (not outside as gt350hr indicated above for the J car)
This is #148627 (T/A) under wraps and the door #5 GT40 inside
(http://www.ponysite.de/148627_storageHMweb.jpg)
(http://www.ponysite.de/6_atHMstorageweb.jpg)
There had been more shots of a Galaxie front clip.
Lee might have saved a few parts he told John at that time.
Quote from: TransamEd on October 19, 2018, 02:21:10 AM
Saved some pics - from JC - from inside (not outside as gt350hr indicated above for the J car)
This is #148627 (T/A) under wraps and the door #5 GT40 inside
(http://www.ponysite.de/148627_storageHMweb.jpg)
I guess that would be the '69 T/A car #2 wrecked at Michigan.
Quote from: TransamEd on October 19, 2018, 02:21:10 AM
Saved some pics - from JC - from inside (not outside as gt350hr indicated above for the J car)
This is #148627 (T/A) under wraps and the door #5 GT40 inside
(http://www.ponysite.de/148627_storageHMweb.jpg)
(http://www.ponysite.de/6_atHMstorageweb.jpg)
There had been more shots of a Galaxie front clip.
Lee might have saved a few parts he told John at that time.
It is obvious those pictures were taken BEFORE I was there. Two other friends were with me on the trip and I called their attention to the wreck for this exact reason. "years from now no one will believe this". Parts from 627 had already been "field stripped" and my friend Ray Hutson bought some of the front suspension components "I" found in a "wire basket" in the main building ( parts department) just in front of the hallway where the dynos were located. The only vehicle stored in the hangar was the Turbine Truck which I did crawl up and sit in.
Randy
Quote from: TransamEd on October 19, 2018, 02:21:10 AM
Saved some pics - from JC - from inside (not outside as gt350hr indicated above for the J car)
This is #148627 (T/A) under wraps and the door #5 GT40 inside
(http://www.ponysite.de/148627_storageHMweb.jpg)
(http://www.ponysite.de/6_atHMstorageweb.jpg)
There had been more shots of a Galaxie front clip.
Lee might have saved a few parts he told John at that time.
#5 P1047 looks like the condition following the crash at 67 Le Mans with #6 P1015.
Both these cars have been restored, these photos would be no later than 1972 when P1047 was reported to have been repaired by HM and sold to Japan, per my notes.
regards,
jim p
The rest of the hangar shows a number of other crashed cars and stripped front and rear ends amongst other parts.
(http://www.ponysite.de/HMstorageweb.jpg)
TransamEd, great stuff ! I believe the #17 car in your last post is the Ford Honker, Can-Am car that Andretti drove in '67.
all I have is a 1:43 model . . .
Came across these images today, I believe to be a screen grab. The info "suggested" this is J2 the day of Ken Miles crash at
Riverside during testing. The first two shots are known, here just for reference. I don't know if the others have been seen here
before ? will be in two posts.
Mike
PS: just looking again at the first two b&w images, there are differences in the car, side scoop, stripe with J7 in second photo,
where those taken different times at Riverside, I read the car was shaken down at Kingman Arizona before going to Riverside for
more tests . Thoughts ?
Last two.
The photo you noted as Miles Testing is striped as J7. I don't think it is the same J2 car
It was likely captioned incorrectly.
Attached is another view on the same tragic day with J2.
What looks to be a clay mockup - I scanned this from one of my vintage car mags, can't remember off hand which issue.
- Phillip
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/134-200218200838.jpeg)
From what I found since this thread was started. The first J car was cut up to analyze/test the bonding procedure. Their findings led to them adding the gussets and a steel roll cage to the car. J1 & 2 were the boxy cars the rest of the J chassis that were built became MKIV (and CanAm) cars. They never knew why the car crashed. It was suspected that the 2 speed (developed for drag racing) automatic trans locked up. Phil Remington took Hollywood custom car designer/builder Dean Jefferies to Detroit with him and they (along with some Ford aero guys) developed the MKIV body in Ford's wind tunnel. While there Jefferies spotted one of the earlier GT40s collecting dust in a corner and bought it for a sweetheart deal. The Gurney/Foyt MKIV only ran one race and had very little testing before it got loaded for LeMans.
The "J" designation was because they were designed to compete under the FIA Group J rules.
You can do an online search and find some papers on the bonding considerations for the honeycomb aluminum panels. They were new at the time and development research was ongoing on uses and bonding.
Quote from: Richstang on December 13, 2022, 06:36:48 PM
The photo you noted as Miles Testing is striped as J7. I don't think it is the same J2 car
It was likely captioned incorrectly.
Attached is another view on the same tragic day with J2.
Rich,
I don't think that's RIR. The trees aren't right, and I can't see any of the half-buried white tires that RIR had all around the track.
Quote from: Side-Oilers on December 13, 2022, 11:20:39 PM
Quote from: Richstang on December 13, 2022, 06:36:48 PM
The photo you noted as Miles Testing is striped as J7. I don't think it is the same J2 car
It was likely captioned incorrectly.
Attached is another view on the same tragic day with J2.
Rich,
I don't think that's RIR. The trees aren't right, and I can't see any of the half-buried white tires that RIR had all around the track.
You're right Van. It looks like a wavy wall in the distance which would make it the Deaborn test track.
I believe that was a Ford captioned photo (published by Consumers Guide) that noted it incorrectly as Riverside. Good catch.
So does anyone know when Miles was testing in Dearboarn? There's nothing in my notes about it.
The other photo with more of a side view was also a Ford photo / caption.
I'm not aware of any other photos of the J2.
It does appear to be Ken Miles driving
It is my understanding that experimental chassis 'glue' broke free (due to vibration) causing the Miles car to break apart. Heard this years ago from a (now) deceased FOMO race photographer.
Quote from: ChicagoChris on December 14, 2022, 02:51:47 PM
It is my understanding that experimental chassis 'glue' broke free (due to vibration) causing the Miles car to break apart.
Heard this years ago from a (now) deceased FOMO race photographer.
I've read many theories over the years, another is they switched to low profile 16" wheels/tires and it disturbed the ground effects air flow altering the handling as Ken attained top speed on the back stretch and approaching the braking zone for turn 9?
I would suspect if anyone had a knowledgeable theory it would have been P Remington.
If any one ever reached a conclusion it's not public knowledge.
jim p