Ex–Carroll Shelby 1967 GT500 4-Speed:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-shelby-mustang-gt500-34/
Gotta love the BaT peanut gallery comments, yes they can be snarky at times but the comments can also contain many facts but only if one wants to acknowledge them.
While not assembly line correct looks like a nice vehicle and hopefully someone in the EU is looking for a 1967. I do not see the bringing the vehicle back to the U.S. cost effective unless it hammers extremely low.
At a quarter million USD, I think "extremely low" has left the chat.
The numbers guys kill me, they believe everything they read and when presented with pictures still dont know what they are looking at...
Best comment is asking for pictures with CS.
The block was cast after the car was built.
The seller said in the comments that he will pay for container shipment from Greece to anywhere in the US, and there should be no import tax for a vehicle that was manufactured or previously registered in the US. I wonder what the car looked like 26 years ago when Shelby/Becker owned it.
someone asked for a picture of Carrol with the car did you? :P .....AI is great!
Now do Elvis, it will be about as real!
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 09, 2026, 05:40:04 AMNow do Elvis, it will be about as real!
I suppose that it depends on whether you see the oil cooler valuable (functional) or not but I would have installed it and let someone else decide if it had a valuable function.
"Saw the ghost of Elvis
On Union Avenue
Followed him up to the gates of Graceland
Then I watched him walk right through"
I suppose it can apply to anyone that haunts you? Elvis shot his Pantera. Maybe Shelby would have too?
I try not to get too spooky though. I never said that I was just right?
SOME of my "visions" are pretty cool but obviously limited to just me. 8)
ask and you shall receive......I'm not an artist tho
Is it just me or did the "original" smog system change?
Seems like more questions than answers with this car. Does it have the original engine, gearbox and rear end? Original wheels, oil cooler and smog system? No photos or documents proving ownership by Shelby besides the email from Becker to Mathews?
I believe Mr Becker. This wasn't the only car he titled with Shelby.
The letter says they were doing it to make money.
Strange that no one kept a photo of the title with Shelby's name. I wonder how many other classic Shelby Mustangs have a similar Becker story.
That is not the "original" PCV system. What you see is what you need to do to make it work. The original did not.
There is no indication at all of an oil cooler. There is an original oil cooler assembly for a GT500 with A/C. They are difficult to find and even if you did, the price is very steep. It is an uncommon part amongst uncommon parts. I doubt that an outside A/C shop would even have known that an original installation would have added the Shelby oil cooler.
The thing with the "previously owned by Shelby" claim, is that there was a lot of legal action involving lawsuits claiming fraud or at least misrepresentation. It probably would still be considered "actionable" by certain surviving parties involved to openly discus that and as a result, best left alone now?
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 09, 2026, 10:15:02 AMIs it just me or did the "original" smog system change?
The system shown in Becker's email on Jan 2003 surely isn't original to the car re was representing and apparently owned at the time. Don't know if he knew the different at that time or today.
I am not sure what is actionable? The cars were titled legally.
You might be able to make case for unethical, but illegal? Maybe some people don't care if CS never saw the car and only "legally" owned it for a hot minute.
Contrary to BaT popular opinion, I don't think, a 76 year old Carroll Shelby was driving this car around Las Vegas.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 09, 2026, 05:34:09 PMI am not sure what is actionable? The cars were titled legally.
You might be able to make case for unethical, but illegal? Maybe some people don't care if CS never saw the car and only "legally" owned it for a hot minute.
Contrary to BaT popular opinion, I don't think, a 76 year old Carroll Shelby was driving this car around Las Vegas.
The term brought up is that a person was being "defamed" by suggestions of misrepresentation and as far as I know it, it was unknown to Shelby and it was one of his employees that were involved, by which the accusation of misrepresentation emanates.
It has nothing to do with how I feel but some that had purchased such vehicles made their own after the fact decisions of what actually constituted fraud. Not me. Talk to the lawyers.
I guess I don't have any knowledge of previous legal actions. I'm also not sure what Shelby knew or didn't know with regards to titles?
Probably best not to speculate on that.
I can say there seem to be some things said, that don't appear to be correct.
The block thingy being one.
Judging by the date code, it is more likely that it is a "C" scratch rather then an "A" but the id is mixed around that date and could be either.
FE's are full of contradictions.
I would call it a "Day 2" car and leave it at that. There are buyers for both "Concours Original" and for "drivers". Some buyers consider drivers more desirable but a buyer should be knowledgeable.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 09, 2026, 05:34:09 PMContrary to BaT popular opinion, I don't think, a 76 year old Carroll Shelby was driving this car around Las Vegas.
Yup ............... and how about a photo of that ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 11, 2026, 09:18:11 AMJudging by the date code, it is more likely that it is a "C" scratch rather then an "A" but the id is mixed around that date and could be either.
FE's are full of contradictions.
I would call it a "Day 2" car and leave it at that. There are buyers for both "Concours Original" and for "drivers". Some buyers consider drivers more desirable but a buyer should be knowledgeable.
c scratch blocks came in in June of 67 so a March block would be an A scratch block
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on May 11, 2026, 08:54:31 PMQuote from: shelbydoug on May 11, 2026, 09:18:11 AMJudging by the date code, it is more likely that it is a "C" scratch rather then an "A" but the id is mixed around that date and could be either.
FE's are full of contradictions.
I would call it a "Day 2" car and leave it at that. There are buyers for both "Concours Original" and for "drivers". Some buyers consider drivers more desirable but a buyer should be knowledgeable.
c scratch blocks came in in June of 67 so a March block would be an A scratch block
I agree that is what it should be by the date code. It is thought that there are some C scratch original '67 GT500 engines but that is circumstantial evidence and not documented.
The reality with FE's is that just when you thought you found the answer, some kind of strange exception shows up that disrupts the theory. I would not personally bet on what it is, is all I am saying. That would be some kind of a suckers bet.
To me the A and C are identical and some room needs to be granted. The date codes, as Coralsnake has suggested, are the most important and it is the most logical that it isn't the original block to whatever the value of that is. Did the seller say it was original?
Without seeing the scratch mark, it is even possible that it is a 390 block. That is significant to a buyer rather then a 428 block. At the level this car is being offered at, it doesn't matter a lot what 428 block is in it, just whether or not the seller represents it as original to the Ford build.
QuoteDid the seller say it was original?
Its in the auction multiple times, but has gone unaddressed
Pay attention, you are getting a master class in marketing here. Including the "razzle dazzle"
Somehow I think Mr Shelby might find the "alter ego" comment a bit ironic
🤔
Quote from: SCJSTU on May 08, 2026, 04:11:10 PMsomeone asked for a picture of Carrol with the car did you? :P .....AI is great!
Quote from: Nightmist on May 09, 2026, 02:25:39 PMStrange that no one kept a photo of the title with Shelby's name. I wonder how many other classic Shelby Mustangs have a similar Becker story.
Yes - somewhat of a scam in my opinion. I'd wager CS never set eyes on the car and there is none of his DNA on the seats. It was a partnership/titling agreement to increase the value of the cars. One CS title I did see (10-15 years ago) it was some CS company (foundation?) that owned it not him personally. There is also no Belaire CA - Bel Air is a pricy zip code in the city of Los Angeles.
So right now youre bidding on a quarter million dollar car thats not a particularly good restoration, non matching number, that may have been legally owned by Shelby.
Or...
You could be bidding on a relatively inexpensive, beautifully preserved example with free shipping, validated by a living legend and driven by Shelby.
🤗
Since I'm far from an expert on 67s I do follow them and prices and know quality so tell me why Bat would give a reserve on this car over the USD bid price of 264,420? We know the original engine isn't in the car so that affects some high dollar bidders so what's up?
Because its all about the sellers, repeat sellers are dictating the BaT market
One question didnt Shelby owned all our cars before they left LAX? So maybe all our cars were first ownership by Carroll Shelby ;D
I´m a collector and classic car dealer. I owned a lot of cars sometimes just for some weeks and sometimes when the owners resell them after years they say owned by Kent Classic Cars even if it was just some months just that they can prove it was in real good hands before they bought it and the car is coming from a good source with knowledge.
I am not sure, didnt Ford technically own those cars?
The intent of titling those cars in Shelbys name was one thing...making a profit and there are literally dozens of them.
To me that is a little different than him actually "owning" the car. That implies he used it and kept it. Thats the part that was exploited.
The interesting part is .... it is a very "Shelby" story.
Now, if we could only find his Bugatti....that would be a different story
This entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 19, 2026, 05:12:54 AMI am not sure, didnt Ford technically own those cars?
The intent of titling those cars in Shelbys name was one thing...making a profit and there are literally dozens of them.
To me that is a little different than him actually "owning" the car. That implies he used it and kept it. Thats the part that was exploited.
The interesting part is .... it is a very "Shelby" story.
Now, if we could only find his Bugatti....that would be a different story
Either Ford owned them or SAI owned them. Not Shelby personally.
I thought the Bugatti was parked in storage with Jim Morrison's '67 GT500? Or was it Van Morrison's.......
Carroll really did have a Bugatti
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 19, 2026, 10:58:44 AMCarroll really did have a Bugatti
I didn't know that. Interesting. But then he drove some great stuff in his career.
Quote from: 6S896 on May 19, 2026, 07:55:57 AMThis entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
but when a car doesn't meet its reserve how do we know in fact the top bid was real? I'm not accusing anything but it isn't rare for people to bid up cars for friends or an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve. I watched Wayne Carini say that on a car he brought to pebble beach and at an RM auction stating on his TV show that there were no buyers in the room and the auction house can do that. BTW car didn't sell to the high bidder after auction either.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on May 19, 2026, 11:11:28 PMor an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve.
This is no secret, it's been openly "buried" within the terms and conditions of every auction contract dating back to far before I ever got involved in such things. All you needed to do is actually read the T's and C's when you initially signed up as a bidder or seller. Same goes for the auction house not being responsible for the lack of a buyers due diligence. I've been told some prolific sellers actually list their cars at such auctions because of this.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on May 19, 2026, 11:11:28 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 19, 2026, 07:55:57 AMThis entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
but when a car doesn't meet its reserve how do we know in fact the top bid was real? I'm not accusing anything but it isn't rare for people to bid up cars for friends or an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve. I watched Wayne Carini say that on a car he brought to pebble beach and at an RM auction stating on his TV show that there were no buyers in the room and the auction house can do that. BTW car didn't sell to the high bidder after auction either.
Reason I don't buy auction cars or run my cars through auctions, it's a scam. 4 years ago I bought two cars through GAA, both sellers told me the cars were great "Ready to go" The auction built the car's up explaining all the money for restoration and the success of the builders. Both vehicles were shit, couldn't even get one on the trailer. The rings were shot in one and had a severe rear main oil leak, and brakes didn't work. The other had two flat tires, a dead battery and had to hot wire to get it to crank, finally went to load it and the carb was so shot I couldn't keep her running without severe backfiring. The few I have bought on BAT have all been great cars. Other than buying from individuals I will always use BAT going forth if I have the need for an auction car. With BAT you also have the availability to inspect the car.
"I will always use BAT going forth"
:o . . . . . ::)
Scott.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on May 19, 2026, 11:11:28 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 19, 2026, 07:55:57 AMThis entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
but when a car doesn't meet its reserve how do we know in fact the top bid was real? I'm not accusing anything but it isn't rare for people to bid up cars for friends or an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve. I watched Wayne Carini say that on a car he brought to pebble beach and at an RM auction stating on his TV show that there were no buyers in the room and the auction house can do that. BTW car didn't sell to the high bidder after auction either.
I will relate one of my several personal bad auction experiences. In about 2014 I consigned a very nice 427 powered '69 restomod CJ Mach I to Mecum Kissimmee. Got a Saturday number and hauled it down there from PA.
The car crossed the block over an hour behind the appointed time, due largely to the auction inserting several
"xxx.1" lots into the rotation, probably to give favored consignors prime time exposure. By the time the Mach reached the block, the bidder money was on its way out the door.
The car "bid" to within about $5K of my reserve, which I recall was $60K. As it was being pushed off the block, I approached one of the ring men and suggested that perhaps we might approach the last bidder and try to close the gap. His response to me was "
Oh, we lost real money at $40K".
Quote from: pbf777 on May 20, 2026, 11:28:04 AM"I will always use BAT going forth"
:o . . . . . ::)
Scott.
Clearly stated "if I ever had the need to buy an auction car" sorry you took it out of context. You must work for the AP!
Quote from: 6S896 on May 20, 2026, 05:41:59 AMQuote from: shelbymann1970 on May 19, 2026, 11:11:28 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 19, 2026, 07:55:57 AMThis entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
but when a car doesn't meet its reserve how do we know in fact the top bid was real? I'm not accusing anything but it isn't rare for people to bid up cars for friends or an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve. I watched Wayne Carini say that on a car he brought to pebble beach and at an RM auction stating on his TV show that there were no buyers in the room and the auction house can do that. BTW car didn't sell to the high bidder after auction either.
Reason I don't buy auction cars or run my cars through auctions, it's a scam. 4 years ago I bought two cars through GAA, both sellers told me the cars were great "Ready to go" The auction built the car's up explaining all the money for restoration and the success of the builders. Both vehicles were shit, couldn't even get one on the trailer. The rings were shot in one and had a severe rear main oil leak, and brakes didn't work. The other had two flat tires, a dead battery and had to hot wire to get it to crank, finally went to load it and the carb was so shot I couldn't keep her running without severe backfiring. The few I have bought on BAT have all been great cars. Other than buying from individuals I will always use BAT going forth if I have the need for an auction car. With BAT you also have the availability to inspect the car.
then you must be one of the preferred sellers? I know enough " peons" who tried to sell their cars on bat but bat wanted a ridiculously low reserve or no reserve at all. Preferred sellers can pretty much name their reserve which seems the case on this car. I looked at the pics. Wrong date coded engine. Not a restored car. Condition to Hagerty values the car was bid above above and RNM at 265K? I like the car don't get me wrong and a replaced engine doesn't bother me but I would have bowed out a long time ago bidding wise. BAT is a great venue to sell a car for the most part or even buy one sometimes. Really no commission selling and if you have a no excuses car it should do well most times. So many variables come into play on any given auction.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on May 20, 2026, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 20, 2026, 05:41:59 AMQuote from: shelbymann1970 on May 19, 2026, 11:11:28 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 19, 2026, 07:55:57 AMThis entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
but when a car doesn't meet its reserve how do we know in fact the top bid was real? I'm not accusing anything but it isn't rare for people to bid up cars for friends or an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve. I watched Wayne Carini say that on a car he brought to pebble beach and at an RM auction stating on his TV show that there were no buyers in the room and the auction house can do that. BTW car didn't sell to the high bidder after auction either.
Reason I don't buy auction cars or run my cars through auctions, it's a scam. 4 years ago I bought two cars through GAA, both sellers told me the cars were great "Ready to go" The auction built the car's up explaining all the money for restoration and the success of the builders. Both vehicles were shit, couldn't even get one on the trailer. The rings were shot in one and had a severe rear main oil leak, and brakes didn't work. The other had two flat tires, a dead battery and had to hot wire to get it to crank, finally went to load it and the carb was so shot I couldn't keep her running without severe backfiring. The few I have bought on BAT have all been great cars. Other than buying from individuals I will always use BAT going forth if I have the need for an auction car. With BAT you also have the availability to inspect the car.
then you must be one of the preferred sellers? I know enough " peons" who tried to sell their cars on bat but bat wanted a ridiculously low reserve or no reserve at all. Preferred sellers can pretty much name their reserve which seems the case on this car. I looked at the pics. Wrong date coded engine. Not a restored car. Condition to Hagerty values the car was bid above above and RNM at 265K? I like the car don't get me wrong and a replaced engine doesn't bother me but I would have bowed out a long time ago bidding wise. BAT is a great venue to sell a car for the most part or even buy one sometimes. Really no commission selling and if you have a no excuses car it should do well most times. So many variables come into play on any given auction.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on May 20, 2026, 08:07:25 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 20, 2026, 05:41:59 AMQuote from: shelbymann1970 on May 19, 2026, 11:11:28 PMQuote from: 6S896 on May 19, 2026, 07:55:57 AMThis entire auction was a joke. The seller should have been laughing all the way to the bank.
but when a car doesn't meet its reserve how do we know in fact the top bid was real? I'm not accusing anything but it isn't rare for people to bid up cars for friends or an auction house( not Bat) bid a car up to the reserve. I watched Wayne Carini say that on a car he brought to pebble beach and at an RM auction stating on his TV show that there were no buyers in the room and the auction house can do that. BTW car didn't sell to the high bidder after auction either.
Reason I don't buy auction cars or run my cars through auctions, it's a scam. 4 years ago I bought two cars through GAA, both sellers told me the cars were great "Ready to go" The auction built the car's up explaining all the money for restoration and the success of the builders. Both vehicles were shit, couldn't even get one on the trailer. The rings were shot in one and had a severe rear main oil leak, and brakes didn't work. The other had two flat tires, a dead battery and had to hot wire to get it to crank, finally went to load it and the carb was so shot I couldn't keep her running without severe backfiring. The few I have bought on BAT have all been great cars. Other than buying from individuals I will always use BAT going forth if I have the need for an auction car. With BAT you also have the availability to inspect the car.
then you must be one of the preferred sellers? I know enough " peons" who tried to sell their cars on bat but bat wanted a ridiculously low reserve or no reserve at all. Preferred sellers can pretty much name their reserve which seems the case on this car. I looked at the pics. Wrong date coded engine. Not a restored car. Condition to Hagerty values the car was bid above above and RNM at 265K? I like the car don't get me wrong and a replaced engine doesn't bother me but I would have bowed out a long time ago bidding wise. BAT is a great venue to sell a car for the most part or even buy one sometimes. Really no commission selling and if you have a no excuses car it should do well most times. So many variables come into play on any given auction.
up
Actually never sold a car there, only bought two from BAT, I'm a private collector, not a flipper sir. Also not sure why you feel necessary to call me or someone you don't know a peon? Also not sure why you feel necessary with explaining to me how the car market works. I clearly said the seller should have taken the money and ran. No way was that car worth 270k USD. So what is your argument here if I was agreeing with you?