Hey guys!
I bought 5S345 some time ago. The car is mostly unrestored and has a pretty interesting early history. In short, the car was delivered as a lemon to the first owner. Lots of mechanical issues far and above what were the typical issues often experienced in early 65 ownership. One of the many significant issues was a complaint that the the rear end of the car was very noisy. The first owner started complaining of the issues right when the car was delivered, he complained to the selling dealer (McCoy Ford in Anaheim) and received no help. He then complained to Shelby American and received no response.
As a last ditch effort, he wrote Henry Ford II and HF2 wrote him back in a letter which I still have. HF2 put the Los Angeles DSO on the case to investigate the selling dealership (they had also not performed any of the agreed upon terms of the car's sale when they sold him the car which included not striping the car when it was supposed to be included in the purchase) and he also cc'd Shelby American's Dante Cardone on the car's issues. This, obviously, led to Shelby American being more open to providing assistance ;D
In the weeks that followed, McCoy Ford lost their Shelby American franchise.. the 3 65 GT350s they received in their first shipment would be the only SAI cars they ever sold.. and the car was sent to Mel Burns Ford where they striped the car but refused to cover any of the extensive mechanical issues with the car because they claimed that a car with the sort of issues it had could not have possibly been delivered in that condition.
As a result, the car was taken back to Shelby American under the care of Chuck Cantwell and Harry Neumann. Harry was Shelby American's head of Service and Warranty. They brought the back to the factory, sorted out the various issues, and redelivered the car to the first owner. After that, the original owner followed up in a glowing letter to HF2 about the great service he received at SAI.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
When I bought the car, it had this carpeted package tray in it. Under that package tray it was packed with yellow foam similar to that which is seen under the package trays of carryover cars... except every spare square inch of space was packed to the gills with the foam.
When I first saw the tray carpeted, I knew I had seen something like this before but couldn't put my finger on where I saw it. Of course, as should be expected, when I have shown this tray to a lot of people, the gut reaction is that the carpeting was obviously put on by a prior owner. Fair assumption- it's obviously out of the ordinary.
But was it put in at the factory?
Have any of you ever seen a carpeted package tray like this in a 65 GT350 prior to restoration?
In my humble opinion, we as a hobby get jaded into thinking we have learned all there is to learn about these cars. There are so many instances that come to mind where owners are trying to justify something on their car as "factory" when it clearly is not. At the same time, I think it is also important to maintain an open mind towards the fact that there is probably still plenty left to be learned about the cars we all love.
What do you guys think? Have any of you seen cars with similarly carpeted package trays?
Kind regards,
Vern
The HF2 Letter, for all the paperwork nerds
Good idea as carpet would help keeping beer cooler from sliding around ya thank
Quote from: Special Ed on February 17, 2026, 06:20:37 PMGood idea as carpet would help keeping beer cooler from sliding around ya thank
I was thinking the carpet would be better and keep your skin from sticking to the slick package tray when you were laying in the back with your girl friend on a hot summer night.;)
:o
Would have been nice if they had designed a hinge into it so all your beer and other goodies could be stored underneath it, Eddie-BOY!
Yes and your 8-tracks and weed!!
Bob, I'm still contemplating your response to this subject that you deleted?
Roy
Someone put a lot of work into that carpet. Maybe it was added to muffle the noise from the rear? Maybe they added the rear speakers for the same purpose.
Have you asked Chuck if he remembers the car?
Quote from: KR Convertible on February 17, 2026, 08:57:21 PMSomeone put a lot of work into that carpet. Maybe it was added to muffle the noise from the rear? Maybe they added the rear speakers for the same purpose.
Have you asked Chuck if he remembers the car?
Rear speakers were for a blaupunkt Am-Fm.. the 3rd owner was an associate composure for the Las Vegas symphony in the 1970s and 80s from what I understand.. speakers and radio were added post-1970.
I have asked Chuck about the first owner and if he had any memory of a car coming back to the factory like this. He said he did not remember it. I imagine it was something he likely handed off to Harry Neumann pretty quickly when he became apprised of the issues. At the end of the day, sorting out a street car for a random customer was probably not of great importance to a guy like Chuck. Right around that time he would have been full bore into executing the 66 Trans Am effort.
Off-topic side note: the car has original R-Model shoulder harnesses in it and had an R Model fire extinguisher mounted on the trans tunnel as well. Paxton supercharger installed in the first week of April 1966 at the speed shop "EngineMasters" in Garden Grove. Also had magnesium American GTs on it prior to going back to SAI. In specific, the harnesses hardware holes in the floor are punched just like on a Group 2/R Model.
When I got 345, I started to ask around about carpeted package trays and was pretty quickly told by Craig Conley and Curt Vogt that there was a belief the carpeted package trays, though rare, did originate from the factory. The reason for certain cars having these carpeted trays was not known. I asked them if they were aware of specific cars which retained their carpeted trays and the first subject car which was mentioned by Curt was 5S179, currently owned by Jim Cruden.
This car is unrestored. As you will see from the pictures of this car (attached) the carpeted tray is very similar in some regards to what is in 345 but also different at the same time. Same piping and type of carpet, same seam line just short of the spare tire hold down hole, same curvature of the piping near the front screw in areas of the tray. But a fully carpeted "cove", additional piping at the seam line, and it clearly had a different shaped pad over the hold down hole prior to it seemingly coming off
My car, 5S131, is documented as being a factory carpeted package tray car. Somewhere it says one of six factory cars. I have the documentation in my files.
Quote from: Rickmustang on February 17, 2026, 10:11:31 PMMy car, 5S131, is documented as being a factory carpeted package tray car. Somewhere it says one of six factory cars. I have the documentation in my files.
Nice Rick! Hard to believe I didn't know this about your car after knowing you for so long... so cool!
Here is another picture of what is believed to be another factory carpeted package tray. This piece is obviously not currently on the car but it is retained with the car. The car was restored without the carpet on the tray because it was figured that justifying the carpet was going to be a constant uphill battle.
The serial number is 5S087 and the car was/is a remarkably complete and original car prior to restoration. Every significant part remained on the car prior to a recent restoration. As you can see, very similar to the carpet in 345 but with no "pad" around the spare hardware hole.
This car was bought by Craig Conley from its long term owner and restored by Craig as as well as Kit Sparks.
Kind regards,
Vern
Interesting subject, thanks for sharing... now we're going to have to deal with a whole slew of '65's showing up in SAAC concours with rear carpet! ;) ;D
Quote from: CharlesTurner on February 18, 2026, 12:37:06 AMInteresting subject, thanks for sharing... now we're going to have to deal with a whole slew of '65's showing up in SAAC concours with rear carpet! ;) ;D
Imagine if some troublemaker showed up with a carpeted shelf, black painted cragars, and white Tri-ys.......
Prior to getting 345, I had heard about carpeted package trays here and there but it was certainly never a focus, just something I knew might have been an oddity of some kind.
Two days ago, John Brown called to say that he was reading back through some Shelby American meeting minutes and found mention of the carpeted package trays.
March 30, 1965- Phil Remington starts to investigate the possibility of adding carpet to the package trays in order to quiet the cars down
April 7- Confirmed that Remington had carpet placed on the shelf of a "PR car"
Cost was around $4 per... no minimum order quantity, 6-8 week lead time (perhaps this lead time was a big part of why this didn't become a standard factory feature)
You'll note at the same time Remington was working on relocated the horn switch which was difficult to reach. He never ended up finding a solution for that. Both problems were solved in 66 when both items were effectively taken out of production cars... at least in the case of package trays after the carryovers were made.
One aspect of the factory putting carpeting on package trays which is undisputed is on prototype cars.
In March-April of 1965 the factory was toying with the idea of adding carpeted package trays to quiet the interiors down. As they made prototype cars, they tested the idea. Instead of going with carpeted package trays, they instead phased out the existence of package trays outside of the odd car here and there after the carryovers.
Attached is a picture of the inside of the race shop,... Ken Miles sits in GT/108 with comedian Mort Sahl during his visit to the factory. Next to the GT40 sits a what I believe is 6S001 undergoing its conversion into a Shelby. Prototype package tray with carpeting on it sits on the roof ;D
Also attached is a picture of the package tray in 5S319. This car was Charles McHose's company car and was used as a 66 prototype. Also had design features which would become more associated with 67 Shelbys such as the Berry Plasti-Glass spoiler-ed trunklid.... carpeted package tray in the back.
Here is the image of Miles and Sahl in GT/108 cropped-in and sacrificing the lighter and foreground areas to better see the background items on S6001. The stock rear seat components look to be on the roof and under the Shelby "shelf". There is another car behind it as well.
Thanks for brightening that photo up, JD!
The car behind 6S001 is a group 2 coupe as you can see its a coupe trunk lid opened and the fuel tank vent tub is visible poking out of the trunk threshold.
Kind regards,
Vern
i see 289 badges and mustang badges on the mustang. Did shelby american pull these off and fill the holes on all shelbys?
Quote from: hertzz350 on February 18, 2026, 12:35:40 PMi see 289 badges and mustang badges on the mustang. Did shelby american pull these off and fill the holes on all shelbys?
Shelby pulled them off and filled the holes of this specific car because it was not a assemblyline spec Shelby unit but a regular Mustang converted at SA because of logistic challenges at the time.
If that is indeed 6S001 then some earlier comments and write-ups will have to be corrected since they mention the base car being a GT which the car in the picture is clearly not - Different badging and the car had rocker panel molding as well as standard rear valance.
Quote from: Vernon Estes on February 17, 2026, 07:47:06 PMWould have been nice if they had designed a hinge into it so all your beer and other goodies could be stored underneath it, Eddie-BOY!
It was designed to save weight in a race car - thoughts like that are what led to the later ones being bloated luxo cruisers not the pure performance cars CS envisioned.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 18, 2026, 01:39:30 PMQuote from: Vernon Estes on February 17, 2026, 07:47:06 PMWould have been nice if they had designed a hinge into it so all your beer and other goodies could be stored underneath it, Eddie-BOY!
It was designed to save weight in a race car - thoughts like that are what led to the later ones being bloated luxo cruisers not the pure performance cars CS envisioned.
I was making a joke in response to previous humor shared on the thread... just to be totally clear ;)
Quote from: Vernon Estes on February 18, 2026, 01:54:25 PMQuote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 18, 2026, 01:39:30 PMQuote from: Vernon Estes on February 17, 2026, 07:47:06 PMWould have been nice if they had designed a hinge into it so all your beer and other goodies could be stored underneath it, Eddie-BOY!
It was designed to save weight in a race car - thoughts like that are what led to the later ones being bloated luxo cruisers not the pure performance cars CS envisioned.
I was making a joke in response to previous humor shared on the thread... just to be totally clear ;)
True - but I couldn't resist the chance to get in a shot at the Ford "problem" (business model?) of taking good cars and turning them into big heavy luxo barges. Tbird and Mustang are 2 prime examples.
Thank you Bob.
Vern and all,
Always amazed on what shows up here. The carpet was/is faded enough to look like belongs to the car.
Whoever made it was wise to sew the edge trim on, and use a protector around the spare tire hold down.Very professional work, from an accurate pattern. Might be an idea to pick Howards brain to find out what he has "collected" over the years on this. Thanks for sharing it!
R.R.
I have to question - was the carpet (and foam?) install on 345 a day 2 mod done at the factory. The owner complained of noise and got the Deuce involved. I'm sure all the stops and budget were ignored to make the guy happy.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 18, 2026, 05:14:20 PMI have to question - was the carpet (and foam?) install on 345 a day 2 mod done at the factory. The owner complained of noise and got the Deuce involved. I'm sure all the stops and budget were ignored to make the guy happy.
Yea, to be clear, what I believe at this point is that the carpet was put on the tray of the car at SAI on its return trip... not before it went to McCoy Ford on initial delivery when new. During that return trip, Im sure the people at SAI were just trying to make this guy happy so he could report back positively to HF2. Which he did... letter below!
I was just happy to find that there were factory meeting minutes which confirm the existence of package tray carpeting at the factory. Thus far all the examples of cars with the carpeting on the tray bare so much in common with one another that its difficult to rationalize that the carpet was put on by private owners using local upholstery shops to manufacture it in their specific area of the country. If that was the case, I doubt they would look much alike. Different colors and types of carpet, different colors or type of piping..nmaybe no piping at all?
On the prototype cars obviously the carpeting was being played around with as an idea to improve the package trays for the 1966 model year. On these customer cars... 087, 131, 179, 345 and I assume others that we are unaware of.. I am assuming carpeting was provided to owners by the factory following complaints of the interior noise. The idea that 345's was likely put in at the factory is only likely in my mind because it came back to the factory under extremely unusual circumstances. They also could have just given the carpet to the owner of the car on his way out the door. That woudld seem odd to me personally but all I can do is make what I think are rational and reasonable assumptions based off what I know through the factory docs and other comparable cars which exist.
(https://photos.fife.usercontent.google.com/pw/AP1GczPyFi2S5_SX_1aOE64WOyYYFw-AiQXfwWF1G1GeXraQiPXtWeOwbbAGiQ=w667-h723-s-no-gm?authuser=0)
Follow up to HF2
Pretty damning to McCoy Motors, that probably resulted in a bad day for the whole operation!
Great reading Vern and others. Really cool stuff. What the forum is all about
Hey Vern, Reading all the stuff I have on the 65's, I don't remember reading anything on the Foam. Did all 65's have the Foam or just the ones with the Carpet? what does the Foam look like. Did any 66's with the Tray have the Foam too?
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 19, 2026, 07:28:18 AMHey Vern, Reading all the stuff I have on the 65's, I don't remember reading anything on the Foam. Did all 65's have the Foam or just the ones with the Carpet? what does the Foam look like. Did any 66's with the Tray have the Foam too?
I've ore commonly seen a thin layer of foam on the underside of 66 style package trays. As it pertains to this car or the carpeted package tray, it is more of an interesting note. I can take a picture of it later to post. When the tray came out of the car, it was a real mess, stuff was everywhere ;D
I don't think 65s in general had foam under their package trays "as stock"
Kind regards,
Vern
Quote from: JD on February 19, 2026, 12:07:19 AMPretty damning to McCoy Motors, that probably resulted in a bad day for the whole operation!
McCoy actually lost their franchise shortly after the complaints to SAI and HF2 started. No idea if that was all because of what happened on this car or if it had something to do with something else. They were only delivered three cars and only one of the cars had sold prior to 345 selling. 345 Didnt sell till November 28th of 1965. That car that sold prior was Jim and Jan Schield's 5S297 (from memory) and in speaking with Jan, I didn't get any story about not being satisfied with the deal so I assume it was a normal purchase experience. Jan still has the car today!
I did reach out to Howard to bring his attention to this thread and he related to me that 5025 is the only car he can prove has a factory carpeted package tray. I have not cracked my registry to investigate the history of that car yet though. Perhaps it is the PR car reference in the meeting minutes.
Kind regards,
Vern
Thanks for this subject thread Vern!
Extremely interesting.
Interesting story for sure... But 99.3 percent of the general public will say why did you do that? Like looking into a 66 SHELBY and seeing an automatic even if it came that way. Then the constant discussion of thats just the way it is. Best to ya!
Registry entry for 5025... clearly this is, in fact, the PR car referenced by Rem in the internal coms
Super cool history!
Vern
Hi Vern and all,
So from now forward we will class 65 Cars with carpeted rear trays and coathooks as "Deluxe"
Interior cars.....Next for bonus points will be to find out the trim shop that made the carpet
Possibly the same place that later did the vinyl top car????
R.R.
Quote from: Road Reptile on February 19, 2026, 11:17:23 AMSo from now forward we will class 65 Cars with carpeted rear trays and coathooks as "Deluxe"Interior cars.....
Next for bonus points will be to find out the trim shop that made the carpet
Possibly the same place that later did the vinyl top car????
Only if they also have pony seats. I had a pair of the pony inserts I had my upholstery guy stitch into a Mustang bench seat. It was fun at show since I'd also pulled the dash pad and support for that R Model look. Lots of fun watching people debate about the changes while I just stood there and shrugged my shoulders with a "it was that way when I bought it" comment. The Ford Motor Company property inventory tag I'd added to the door jam only confused them further.
I wonder if the carpet was a Tony Nancy deal? The first Daytona Coupe got a Tony Nancy interior when Jim Russel bought it. It was also treated to a full on show quality paint job - I suspect was done by Dean Jefferies. But in reality Occam's Razor should kick in and a search of auto upholstery shops near SA at the time would probably lead to the maker.
Quote from: 427heaven on February 19, 2026, 09:13:03 AMInteresting story for sure... But 99.3 percent of the general public will say why did you do that? Like looking into a 66 SHELBY and seeing an automatic even if it came that way. Then the constant discussion of thats just the way it is. Best to ya!
My motivation in starting this thread is only to bring the carpeted package tray to people's attention and hopefully we can all learn something that, while small and pretty darn unimportant in the scheme of things, is an interesting footnote in these cars' history. I hope we never get to the point where something new isn't being discovered. A select few have known of these carpeted package trays for a long while but they have never really been discussed out in the open in any length.
As for 345, I think the carpet is a fun conversation piece and the car isnt for sale... so what people think about the carpet or any other aspect of the car is not something I am gonna spend time worrying about ;D
Vern,
Thank you for posting and populating this substantive thread. Really 'ups the game' for our forum.
Two points:
-McCoy Ford is still around, under the same family ownerwship: https://www.ocregister.com/2012/11/14/after-75-years-ford-dealership-keeps-rolling/;
-thanks, especially, for the inclusion of those 'staff meeting minutes'. They are dense in factual detail on matters in addition to the package tray carpet topic.
For instance, over the years my tracking of initial Ford VINs, to assigned 65 SAI VINs, to chassis component date codes, to engine block date codes clearly (empirically) showed that batched 271HP engine availabilty drove deliverlies (in the mid-production period) for Mustangs from Milpitas to SAI.
The April 7 minute report of Bruce Junor is the first document I've seen addressing this.
Arcane, I know! but of interest to certain 65 GT-350 owners.
-Steve A
Best thread on this forum in a long time. :)
Quote from: Road Reptile on February 19, 2026, 11:17:23 AMHi Vern and all,
So from now forward we will class 65 Cars with carpeted rear trays and coathooks as "Deluxe"
Interior cars.....Next for bonus points will be to find out the trim shop that made the carpet
Possibly the same place that later did the vinyl top car????
R.R.
Oh boy... back on the coat hooks... don't get me goin again! Haven't found a single unrestored late car yet with hooks yet...
As for the question of what shop did the carpets... I have been spinning my wheels on that but might have just now come up with a pretty decent suggestion who it was.
In the attached photo, it has written on it "6-8 weeks
?from? AC" and then "Should we order more? No minimum quantity."
I was on the phone with John Brown yesterday and he said that he has seen reference to "AC" in factory correspondence about interior stuff but didn't know what company that stood for... by the nature of the part its either an upholstery shop or an accessories company.
AMCO= American Carry Products, Co. American Carry="AC"
AMCO is best known for producing bumpers for Cobras, wind wings, visors, etc. They also produced many interior components for other cars... you'll find a bunch of mentions online in relation to MG interiors. Attached is a famous ad they ran with a Cobra in it... as well as an ad from 1959 where they list carpet as an offering.
Nothing super solid... but if you had a gun to my head and forced me to guess... I'm going with AMCO at the current moment.
Quote from: camp upshur on February 19, 2026, 02:19:57 PMVern,
Thank you for posting and populating this substantive thread. Really 'ups the game' for our forum.
Two points:
-McCoy Ford is still around, under the same family ownerwship: https://www.ocregister.com/2012/11/14/after-75-years-ford-dealership-keeps-rolling/;
-Steve A
They did move locations though. The old building is still there but it is now some kind of self storage place I believe. My post about them having their franchise dropped was in reference to their Shelby American franchise, just to be totally clear... not their Ford franchise.
Of course, I've been scouring the web trying to find all the tchotchkes that I can related to the dealership ;D
An interesting note about the first owner was that he actually first shopped for a GT350 at Hi-Performance Motors. I dont know why he didnt buy there.. but he says in a later letter to Dante Cardone that he regretted not purchasing his car there as that sales staff was the only dealer staff he felt was helpful to him.
He probably shopped at HiPerf Motors and then bought close to home.
In 2016 we bought a car from McCoy Mills. They were the only ones that had one with a trailer package in the area. It was X plan and I had to fight them for every little thing that the plan allowed. NOT a stealership I'd recommend to anyone. They really whined when they had to honor the "Extra $1,000 Off" 4th of July sale offer - I'll wager they added X plan excluded in their next sale.
Not to confuse things too much, but all this has me going down a deep, dark rabbit hole.
A few days ago I posted on social media about the CONECO Cobra Floor Mats which were present in 5S345. These were sold as an accessory in the 1966 Shelby parts folder... not many sets floating round out there today.
I was looking at other AMCO accessories for other makes and models (mostly MG, Healey, etc etc) and noticed that AMCO floormats bear a lot of similarities to CONECO mats. Then I found a set of CONECO Healey Mats online.
I started trying to find info on "CONECO" as a brand and I cant anything about it existing as a standalone company. I am starting to suspect that CONECO is merely a sub-brand of AMCO... Just as Ray Brown, American Safety, and Impact were simply different labels or sub-brands within one company.
AMCO and CONECO mats for comparison.. all the examples i can find have very similar raised heal pad sections in the rubber.
Quote from: Vernon Estes on February 19, 2026, 01:57:42 PMMy motivation in starting this thread is only to bring the carpeted package tray to people's attention and hopefully we can all learn something that, while small and pretty darn unimportant in the scheme of things, is an interesting footnote in these cars' history. I hope we never get to the point where something new isn't being discovered.
Edsel started pushing for a Model T replacement 100 years ago. 99 years ago they started building the Model A (Nov 1927). There are estimated to be 1/4 million of the 5 million still in existence. Their Judging Standards book has gone through 4 revisions when new stuff has been found. They are in the process of finalizing the 5th revision for publication later this year. In 100 years there may be something found that adds to the SA knowledge base when some ones heir finds a receipt or letter.
Ford Model A Restoration Guidelines & Judging Standards manual. 500 pages of reference, with over 800 detailed photos, is something you will refer to often as you restore and repair your Model A and AA car or truck.
Brian Littlefield reached out to ask why I was assuming the 6-8 week blurb had to do with the carpet and not the paragraph above it about Cobra wheels....
6-8 weeks makes a lot more sense for something that needs to cross and ocean to get to SAI... as opposed to a cheap piece of carpet from across town.
No minimum order quantity on something like a wire wheel seems odd.
AC would be a pretty obvious abbreviation if you wanted to buy a Cobra wheel
I had never considered the hand written portion referring to the wheel paragraph as I perceived the line visible as pointing at the carpet paragraph but at this point I don't know for sure one way or another.
Reading this has taken me away from the scandalous Olympic Curling Cheating. It's refreshing and just amazing, just when you think when everything has been found out about Shelby American in the 60's something like this pops up. Thanks to all for all of the input, I love this kind of stuff.
I'm hoping someone will publish the magic formula for Pit Stop Deodorant 8) 8)
Quote from: Rickmustang on February 17, 2026, 10:11:31 PMMy car, 5S131, is documented as being a factory carpeted package tray car. Somewhere it says one of six factory cars. I have the documentation in my files.
I had a 65 that had a documented, by Shelby invoice/pricing, by Mr Liska, that it had a SHELBY plate on the dash as a special build. Carpeted tray, right side mirror, AC installed and a few other tid bits.
What about gold lower stripes over factory black paint on a early 657 350 ?
Shit happens !
Hi Vern and all,
Think the comments from the letter are about AC in England. One wheel is not a strange order when you consider spare wheels....so a comment about no minimum makes good sense to me, Shelby could easily use spare wheels to help with the shortage and keep customers happy.
As mentioned Tony Nancy did some work and L.A. had a ton of shops that could make up a carpet.You are a nice example of what enthusiasm does for this hobby, as interest in this thread proves.
Keep it fun and it does not seem like work.
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 07:49:38 AMQuote from: Rickmustang on February 17, 2026, 10:11:31 PMMy car, 5S131, is documented as being a factory carpeted package tray car. Somewhere it says one of six factory cars. I have the documentation in my files.
I had a 65 that had a documented, by Shelby invoice/pricing, by Mr Liska, that it had a SHELBY plate on the dash as a special build. Carpeted tray, right side mirror, AC installed and a few other tid bits.
What about gold lower stripes over factory black paint on a early 657 350 ?
Shit happens !
What was the serial number of the 65 you're referring to?
Quote from: Road Reptile on February 20, 2026, 08:15:25 AMHi Vern and all,
Think the comments from the letter are about AC in England. One wheel is not a strange order when you consider spare wheels....so a comment about no minimum makes good sense to me, Shelby could easily use spare wheels to help with the shortage and keep customers happy.
As mentioned Tony Nancy did some work and L.A. had a ton of shops that could make up a carpet.You are a nice example of what enthusiasm does for this hobby, as interest in this thread proves.
Keep it fun and it does not seem like work.
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
I'm not 100% sold on it being AC in england and in reference to the wheels but I do absolutely agree that it is probably a much more likely explanation. Its an example of tunnel vision on my part when reading the docs... with the line connected to the carpet paragraph, I didnt even bother to read the paragraph above ;D
And appreciate your kind words btw... for me anything to do with 345 isn't work. The car is a keeper and I promised the 92 year old owner that I wasn't buying the car to sell it. Hard as it may be to believe, some dealers actually mean that when they say it ;D
In general, I buy and sell the cars for a living because I love the cars, not because I love money. Could have made a lot more, a lot easier, doing something else. But if I did something else, I couldn't fart around with these old cars all day long. Or.... chase down research on ratty old pieces of carpet ;)
In terms of potential manufacturers... I still think it could be AMCO regardless of whether or not the AC reference is made towards the carpet. I agree that it certainly could be a tony nancy thing as well... that would be awfully cool if that could ever come to light as he was a total legend in the SoCal hotrodding world. And I would say at this point maybe the most likely explanation is that it was just some random upholstery shop local to SAI who made other stuff for them. For example, has anyone ever figured out with absolute certainty who made the spare tire covers? Would seem logical to me to assume that maybe SAI/Remington would have gone to whoever was stitching those together and requested that a carpet piece like this be made? All speculation but fun to think about.
Kind regards,
Vern
road reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 09:57:46 AMroad reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
John, I would love to see some pictures of the stripes especially those that have the cars vin in the fiberglass . MY email is under my avatar name. Bob
The factory did stripe the green 66 GT350 convertible with a gold rocker stripe... so the possability of them playing with gold stripes on a black 67 isnt the nuttiest thing I've heard this week.
... but id suggest starting a new, interesting thread about that possability so we can continue to populate this forum with more of the "good ole days" information discovery and discussion that many people have seemed to be yearning for.... while also keeping the focus of this thread on obscure, difficult to document carpeting on 65 package trays ;D
John- any chance you remember the # of the 65 you referenced?
Fun thread. With the recent passing of "The Camfather" at 104 we can't help but look back at the history of our hobby and those who were in business to make it happen. https://ahrf.com/ed-iskenderian/
Ray Brown: https://ahrf.com/ray-brown/
Tony Nancy: https://ahrf.com/tony-nancy/
This is a shot of Tony Nancy doing a burnout on Hollywood Blvd. Hamburger Hamlet was across from Grauman's Chinese which was a few doors east of Petersen's first auto museum. https://www.hotrod.com/news/hrdp-0709-top-fuel-burnout-hollywood-blvd Mike Shoen loaned them one of his Daytona Coupes for display and nearby the Lone Star sat outside and unloved at Charlie Agapiou's Rolls Royce shop. On a few occasions Jim Wallace would take the Coupe from the museum and bring it to the COCOA meeting in Orange County - fun times.
You've heard CS talk about coming to SoCal because that is where the hot rodders were that could get things built. It was a small tight knit community that not only included Ray Brown and Phil Remington but Larry Shinoda who went on to develop Pete Brocks 1950s sketch into the 63 Stingray. He also did the Boss 302. That is him with his lakes roadster the Chopsticks Special. He won his class at the first NHRA Nationals in 1955. Speaking of Pete Brock his design talents showed up in high school when his chopped/channeled Caddie powered "El Mirage" won the Oakland Roadster show in 1953. He liked the white and blue stripe theme that Briggs Cunningham had used on his LeMans effort and copied them on his car. Now you know where the GT350 stripes came from. Six degrees of separation in action.
Vern,
I made a video of the neat things on the original paint car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to Utah and bought it, I was John from Utah then.
He may have bought it for one of his customers.
Jim had a copy of the video.
Cars CSX serial number in yellow crayon on the frame rail, had many neat markings, even in the door jams !
Many of my records were stolen by my ex 25 years ago, had seven 65's, hard to remember all !
John
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on February 20, 2026, 11:49:21 AMFun thread. With the recent passing of "The Camfather" at 104 we can't help but look back at the history of our hobby and those who were in business to make it happen. https://ahrf.com/ed-iskenderian/
Ray Brown: https://ahrf.com/ray-brown/
Tony Nancy: https://ahrf.com/tony-nancy/
This is a shot of Tony Nancy doing a burnout on Hollywood Blvd. Hamburger Hamlet was across from Grauman's Chinese which was a few doors east of Petersen's first auto museum. https://www.hotrod.com/news/hrdp-0709-top-fuel-burnout-hollywood-blvd Mike Shoen loaned them one of his Daytona Coupes for display and nearby the Lone Star sat outside and unloved at Charlie Agapiou's Rolls Royce shop. On a few occasions Jim Wallace would take the Coupe from the museum and bring it to the COCOA meeting in Orange County - fun times.
You've heard CS talk about coming to SoCal because that is where the hot rodders were that could get things built. It was a small tight knit community that not only included Ray Brown and Phil Remington but Larry Shinoda who went on to develop Pete Brocks 1950s sketch into the 63 Stingray. He also did the Boss 302. That is him with his lakes roadster the Chopsticks Special. He won his class at the first NHRA Nationals in 1955. Speaking of Pete Brock his design talents showed up in high school when his chopped/channeled Caddie powered "El Mirage" won the Oakland Roadster show in 1953. He liked the white and blue stripe theme that Briggs Cunningham had used on his LeMans effort and copied them on his car. Now you know where the GT350 stripes came from. Six degrees of separation in action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Cool bit of history. QUOTE
He liked the white and blue stripe theme that Briggs Cunningham had used on his LeMans effort and copied them on his car. Now you know where the GT350 stripes came from. Six degrees of separation in action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have dealt with the REVS Institute, in part about Briggs, I am going to let them know this historical fact about white/blue stripes. I need to go there actually. Ben and Briggs were pretty good friends !
John
Quote from: Vernon Estes on February 19, 2026, 04:51:07 PMBrian Littlefield reached out to ask why I was assuming the 6-8 week blurb had to do with the carpet and not the paragraph above it about Cobra wheels....
6-8 weeks makes a lot more sense for something that needs to cross and ocean to get to SAI... as opposed to a cheap piece of carpet from across town.
No minimum order quantity on something like a wire wheel seems odd.
AC would be a pretty obvious abbreviation if you wanted to buy a Cobra wheel
I had never considered the hand written portion referring to the wheel paragraph as I perceived the line visible as pointing at the carpet paragraph but at this point I don't know for sure one way or another.
Since the Carpet was just an idea and they didn't know if they were going to continue making them, why would CS have the first few made over Seas since he would have to ship them a Package Shelf for the Pattern.
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 12:08:19 PMVern,
I made a video of the neat things on the original paint car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to Utah and bought it, I was John from Utah then.
He may have bought it for one of his customers.
Jim had a copy of the video.
Cars CSX serial number in yellow crayon on the frame rail, had many neat markings, even in the door jams !
Many of my records were stolen by my ex 25 years ago, had seven 65's, hard to remember all !
John
From your description, the car you are describing is 5S179. In the registry the ownership chain goes original owner, Curt V, Jim C. I assume you were somewhere in the middle of that chain.
Kind regards,
Vern
Quote from: tesgt350 on February 20, 2026, 12:40:30 PMQuote from: Vernon Estes on February 19, 2026, 04:51:07 PMBrian Littlefield reached out to ask why I was assuming the 6-8 week blurb had to do with the carpet and not the paragraph above it about Cobra wheels....
6-8 weeks makes a lot more sense for something that needs to cross and ocean to get to SAI... as opposed to a cheap piece of carpet from across town.
No minimum order quantity on something like a wire wheel seems odd.
AC would be a pretty obvious abbreviation if you wanted to buy a Cobra wheel
I had never considered the hand written portion referring to the wheel paragraph as I perceived the line visible as pointing at the carpet paragraph but at this point I don't know for sure one way or another.
Since the Carpet was just an idea and they didn't know if they were going to continue making them, why would CS have the first few made over Seas since he would have to ship them a Package Shelf for the Pattern.
If you read back the debate is whether the note refers to ordering more wheels from AC cars or more carpet from another company abbreviate "AC". I wasnt paying attention to the paragraph above the one that references carpet when I was theorizing. In respect to the "other" prosed "AC"...they were right in town and already provided interior accessories to SAI. The 6-8 week lead time makes no sense for a piece of carpet made locally. 8 Weeks after these documents were typed, production of 65s was KAPUT
I feel like a dog that took a sh%t on the living room carpet and now my owner is holding my nose down on top of it to make sure I never do it again!
"BAD VERN, YOU NEED TO READ HISTORICAL DOCS MORE CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU OPEN UP YOUR YAP, BAD BAD VERN" ;D
Best subject on the forum in years. Thanks to all who contributed so far
How about some other things that may or may not be true
1. 6S1431, has two holes punched in the metal strip on the driver's side that I was told were for the installation of a body affixed VIN Tag starting in Jan 1966. I've seen earlier cars without these holes and later cars without these holes. It was alleged that it started around Oct/Nov of 65 and stopped in the Feb/March 66 time period. Has anyone ever heard this? The holes are punched and not drilled. Does anyone with a car near this VIN have these hose on this metal tab?
2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?
3. The 3rd and 4th pictures are the speedometer locks used on Hertz cars. There are two versions, one was attached at the speedometer head behind the instrument cluster and alleged to be the moist common. The other one shows the attachment on the speedometer cable where it enters the transmission near the speedometer gear. Do we know how many cars actually got them? When did they start installing the? When did they stop installing them? How many got the one at the instrument cluster? How many got them at the Speedometer gear on the transmission?
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 12:15:23 PMI have dealt with the REVS Institute, in part about Briggs,
I was disappointed when his museum closed here in SoCal. I've got a photo of our daughter at 6-7 standing next to his "giant" (as our daughter called it) Bugatti Royale.
In 1950, Briggs Cunningham acquired two of the six surviving Bugatti Type 41 Royales directly from the Bugatti family for approximately $571 and two refrigerators. He kept the 1930 Type 41 Kellner Coupe for his collection, which later sold in 1987 for a then-record £5.5 million.
https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/hagerty-insider/the-founding-fathers-of-car-collecting-briggs-cunningham/
Fords had tabs like that on the firewall where the serial numbers were. They were probably thinking the same for Mustang but went to the apron stamping instead. I can't see Ford or SA making any change in that build range for the serial number. The holes could have been used for alignment pins when the pieces were first welded together. But they are small to stand up to the mass production of the Mustang.
Painted mirrors would have been done by the individual Hertz locations.
843 had no speedo lock - but the trans had been replaced.
Quote from: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on February 20, 2026, 04:22:26 PMHow about some other things that may or may not be true
2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?
Check out the second photo in my opening post from this thread....https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=2373 (https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=2373). Car was rented in Seattle during the summer of 66.
Quote from: Vernon Estes on February 20, 2026, 12:57:21 PMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 12:08:19 PMVern,
I made a video of the neat things on the original paint car. Big Jim Cowles flew out to Utah and bought it, I was John from Utah then.
He may have bought it for one of his customers.
Jim had a copy of the video.
Cars CSX serial number in yellow crayon on the frame rail, had many neat markings, even in the door jams !
Many of my records were stolen by my ex 25 years ago, had seven 65's, hard to remember all !
John
From your description, the car you are describing is 5S179. In the registry the ownership chain goes original owner, Curt V, Jim C. I assume you were somewhere in the middle of that chain.
Kind regards,
Vern
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, that is not it. That is one that had original paint, A/C, lady owned, husband bought it for her,
I snagged the car, curt bought from me, and then Curt sold to Big Jim. Car had one spot paint on the rear tail light panel, Big Jim said it was one of the nicest originals he had ever seen. Curt came into play again with 65 R, 530, Stauffer , car was at Walts place in Colorado when I went.
Quote from: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on February 20, 2026, 04:22:26 PMHow about some other things that may or may not be true
1. 6S1431, has two holes punched in the metal strip on the driver's side that I was told were for the installation of a body affixed VIN Tag starting in Jan 1966. I've seen earlier cars without these holes and later cars without these holes. It was alleged that it started around Oct/Nov of 65 and stopped in the Feb/March 66 time period. Has anyone ever heard this? The holes are punched and not drilled. Does anyone with a car near this VIN have these hose on this metal tab?
Think we're getting way off thread but that's just me
Have seen and track this detail and have for years. Yes Ford planned at one point to relocate the VIN tags to that location for a number of reasons but things changed. The available 66 Assembly manuals show this details but like a number of details not everything in those pages were have available were carried out on the assembly lines and likely new versions of that page were provided and replaced the older as an update. Happened all the time as they found mistakes in earlier pages or things changed. Plus those help guide plants on what Ford wanted them to do not always what the plant managers or workers ended up doing.
Quote from: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on February 20, 2026, 04:22:26 PM2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?
Don't believe this was a standard practice across the country. Hertz may have allowed it to take place by region like they allowed each region to choose how to identify/label or mark cars assigned for each region. Like the labeling. An example of this was done for 6S118 for SAAC 50 Concours
66 GT350 Hertz Inventory ID Labels (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=31027.0)
As for the speedo cable locks I don' think enough of them lasted on the cars once they were sold to the public. Lack of enough data limits IMO our ability to determine when and where they were used without making some great leaps of assumption.
Quote from: s2ms on February 20, 2026, 04:45:02 PMQuote from: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on February 20, 2026, 04:22:26 PMHow about some other things that may or may not be true
2. Mirrors on Hertz cars were painted different colors to differentiate between airports. I was told by Ed Waterman in 1972 that he had seen these when he worked at DC's National Airport in the 66-67 time period. He said that Baltimore and Dulles used different colors. This is the original mirror off 6S1431 which was used at National Airport. Was this unique to the 3 airports near DC/Baltimore? Was it used at other areas? Has anyone besides me have a painted rear-view mirror with a painted back?
Check out the second photo in my opening post from this thread....https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=2373 (https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=2373). Car was rented in Seattle during the summer of 66.
Thanks, that's the only picture other than my car I've seen with a red mirror
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 20, 2026, 10:07:09 AMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 09:57:46 AMroad reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
John, I would love to see some pictures of the stripes especially those that have the cars vin in the fiberglass . MY email is under my avatar name. Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, I did email you several oics to document the oddities on #45.
Let me know you did get them, and post herein if you want.
I am an idiot on pasting pics etc !
John Y
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 10:50:48 AMQuote from: Bob Gaines on February 20, 2026, 10:07:09 AMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 09:57:46 AMroad reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
John, I would love to see some pictures of the stripes especially those that have the cars vin in the fiberglass . MY email is under my avatar name. Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, I did email you several oics to document the oddities on #45.
Let me know you did get them, and post herein if you want.
I am an idiot on pasting pics etc !
John Y
John I got your pictures thank you. I didn't see the ones that were of the fiberglass parts with your cars Shelby VIN marked on them which was what I was particularly interested in.
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 10:50:48 AMBob, I did email you several oics to document the oddities on #45.
Let me know you did get them, and post herein if you want.
I am an idiot on pasting pics etc !
John I invite you to PM me or another and then you can email them and have one of us post them to the thread or start a new one focused on this subject. Likely the best way to share and narrow the focus of the discussion. Would be interesting to see if the hand writing and other details are similar in one way or another
Your stuff - your choice- Thanks
Oh man, this thread has really "evolved" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 21, 2026, 02:10:39 PMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 10:50:48 AMQuote from: Bob Gaines on February 20, 2026, 10:07:09 AMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 09:57:46 AMroad reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
John, I would love to see some pictures of the stripes especially those that have the cars vin in the fiberglass . MY email is under my avatar name. Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, I did email you several oics to document the oddities on #45.
Let me know you did get them, and post herein if you want.
I am an idiot on pasting pics etc !
John Y
John I got your pictures thank you. I didn't see the ones that were of the fiberglass parts with your cars Shelby VIN marked on them which was what I was particularly interested in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, you missed the crayon yellow numbers 45 on the pieces I sent you ?
John
Hey to Vern and all,
After a little checking it appears that Acme was the company that did the 1 and only vinyl top for
Shelby in 1966 and they are still in business!!!! Might be worth contacting them about any work done for Shelby in other years. Someone made Spare wheel covers and that may lead to carpet. Good luck
R.R.
Looks like a company named FITCO made the spare tire cover (S1MS-47042-A).
Dave
Quote from: Road Reptile on February 21, 2026, 08:04:23 PMHey to Vern and all,
After a little checking it appears that Acme was the company that did the 1 and only vinyl top for
Shelby in 1966 and they are still in business!!!! Might be worth contacting them about any work done for Shelby in other years. Someone made Spare wheel covers and that may lead to carpet. Good luck
R.R.
Yes they were the supplier for 6S001 Don't think that will lead anywhere for the carpeting but might be worth a check. Not sure if anyone from that ear is left at the company either.
In Calif you could find fastbacks with Acme vinyl tops up and down the state where a representative or one jobber traveled the state installing them on new Mustangs and other cars at dealerships. Have known a few original fastback owners that bought their cars with vinyl tops plus have collected data for others through the early 70's. They were the go to supplier for headliners from the 60's on before some of the more recent companies you see in catalogs today. Had them do a custom cloth headliner for one of my custom cars in the 80's
Quote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 07:11:22 PMQuote from: Bob Gaines on February 21, 2026, 02:10:39 PMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 10:50:48 AMQuote from: Bob Gaines on February 20, 2026, 10:07:09 AMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 09:57:46 AMroad reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
John, I would love to see some pictures of the stripes especially those that have the cars vin in the fiberglass . MY email is under my avatar name. Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, I did email you several oics to document the oddities on #45.
Let me know you did get them, and post herein if you want.
I am an idiot on pasting pics etc !
John Y
John I got your pictures thank you. I didn't see the ones that were of the fiberglass parts with your cars Shelby VIN marked on them which was what I was particularly interested in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, you missed the crayon yellow numbers 45 on the pieces I sent you ?
John
Thank you.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on February 22, 2026, 12:04:53 PMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 07:11:22 PMQuote from: Bob Gaines on February 21, 2026, 02:10:39 PMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 21, 2026, 10:50:48 AMQuote from: Bob Gaines on February 20, 2026, 10:07:09 AMQuote from: Harris Speedster on February 20, 2026, 09:57:46 AMroad reptile,
Now very curious about John's post....67 with Gold stripes??? Sounds like the Hertz plan that fell through but that should be in a new thread.
R.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was skeptical about the gold stripes until I stripped the original paint off.
Made it a point to take pictures of a sanded area, layers are red oxide, grey sealer, black paint, gold paint, no excuses.
I have sent a few pics of that to a few select saac members, and a well known restorer/owner.
Something else, all scoops, rear tail light panel , in yellow marker, has my cars serial number on them. I put clear satin lacquer over the marks to retain them. Many more oddities about the car.
John
ON THAT VERY POINT OF DISCOVERIES;
One never knows when history can be changed by real pictures and docs.
I did just that in a 2 day world symposium at the Watkins Glen Race track Media Center, by finally presenting 27 of our 130 docs on Harris, SCCA and his 1935 supercar.
We waited decades to prove it without doubt so there would be NO arguments. This involves rules, formulas and regulations you guys still race under to this very day, 70 years after the fact !
Proud to say that after 26 years I finally found a picture of Juan Fangio, Sterling Moss, Ben Harris and Wacky Arnolt in the winners circle from 1952. Proudly added to the pics of Ben with Shelby, Gurney, Madsen Gregory Harley Earl and more legends, Best regards,
NEVER give up on research !
John
John, I would love to see some pictures of the stripes especially those that have the cars vin in the fiberglass . MY email is under my avatar name. Bob
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob, I did email you several oics to document the oddities on #45.
Let me know you did get them, and post herein if you want.
I am an idiot on pasting pics etc !
John Y
John I got your pictures thank you. I didn't see the ones that were of the fiberglass parts with your cars Shelby VIN marked on them which was what I was particularly interested in.
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Bob, you missed the crayon yellow numbers 45 on the pieces I sent you ?
John
Thank you.
At this point I'm pretty sure I'm just talking into an empty room,....but....
Quick question: Does this forum subsection have a moderator?
Kinda feels like all this non-related content could be moved to a separate thread...... don't ya think?
Kind regards,
Vern
Agreed, but then again....you did say you wanted to 'Stir The Pot' ;)
Quote from: s2ms on February 22, 2026, 08:19:45 PMAgreed, but then again....you did say you wanted to 'Stir The Pot' ;)
Bahhhhhhhhhhhhh :o 8) :P
Quote from: J_Speegle on February 21, 2026, 09:33:34 PMQuote from: Road Reptile on February 21, 2026, 08:04:23 PMHey to Vern and all,
After a little checking it appears that Acme was the company that did the 1 and only vinyl top for
Shelby in 1966 and they are still in business!!!! Might be worth contacting them about any work done for Shelby in other years. Someone made Spare wheel covers and that may lead to carpet. Good luck
R.R.
Yes they were the supplier for 6S001 Don't think that will lead anywhere for the carpeting but might be worth a check. Not sure if anyone from that ear is left at the company either.
In Calif you could find fastbacks with Acme vinyl tops up and down the state where a representative or one jobber traveled the state installing them on new Mustangs and other cars at dealerships. Have known a few original fastback owners that bought their cars with vinyl tops plus have collected data for others through the early 70's. They were the go to supplier for headliners from the 60's on before some of the more recent companies you see in catalogs today. Had them do a custom cloth headliner for one of my custom cars in the 80's
Back in the 80's I owned a 1970 Red Fast Back with White Interior and a full White Vinyl Top.