Driving to get gas this evening, my headlights shut off and I was able to get them back on again by shutting off the switch and turning them on again. They did it a couple more times. I am suspecting problem is in the headlight switch on the dash? Maybe some corrosion? Or a bad switch? Any input is valued. Thanks.
Richard E.
Quote from: deathsled on September 15, 2018, 09:40:34 PM
Driving to get gas this evening, my headlights shut off and I was able to get them back on again by shutting off the switch and turning them on again. They did it a couple more times. I am suspecting problem is in the headlight switch on the dash? Maybe some corrosion? Or a bad switch? Any input is valued. Thanks.
Richard E.
It sounds like the headlight switch. Shutting it off allows it to cool down temporarily so the breaker can reset.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on September 15, 2018, 09:49:01 PM
Quote from: deathsled on September 15, 2018, 09:40:34 PM
Driving to get gas this evening, my headlights shut off and I was able to get them back on again by shutting off the switch and turning them on again. They did it a couple more times. I am suspecting problem is in the headlight switch on the dash? Maybe some corrosion? Or a bad switch? Any input is valued. Thanks.
Richard E.
It sounds like the headlight switch. Shutting it off allows it to cool down temporarily so the breaker can reset.
+1000
Find an NOS switch or it all else fails, a 1970 NOS switch ( it used 4 headlamps rather than 2)
I will do so. Thank you gentlemen!
Quote from: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on September 15, 2018, 10:06:24 PM
Find an NOS switch or it all else fails, a 1970 NOS switch ( it used 4 headlamps rather than 2)
It's the 69 Mustang with 4 headlamps, not the 70 ;)
My voltage regulator was going and they would flicker on and off, and then off. Yes, I checked the switch as well.
Quote from: 69mach351w on September 15, 2018, 10:39:42 PM
Quote from: Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas on September 15, 2018, 10:06:24 PM
Find an NOS switch or it all else fails, a 1970 NOS switch ( it used 4 headlamps rather than 2)
It's the 69 Mustang with 4 headlamps, not the 70 ;)
I am old and senile, you are right (I personally think the 69 is one of the best looking ones around)
With a little creativity, one can install a headlight relay and have be nearly undetectable. A relay will let all the headlight current bypass the problematic Ford switch, and even stock lighting will be substantially brighter, if that's an important consideration.
I drove my GT350's at night frequently, so a H–4 headlight conversion was a must have. The Cibie H-4 lenses have a very pleasing convex curve to them, very period looking, and the light pattern is outstanding without blinding oncoming traffic.
Daniel Stern has the best quality relay harnesse, available in a kit form, or totally assembled. He also carries all the H-4 lighting upgrades one could ever wish for. I've never asked him a lighting question that he couldn't answer. A real professional.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html
Z
Quote from: zray on September 19, 2018, 12:26:54 AM
With a little creativity, one can install a headlight relay and have be nearly undetectable. A relay will let all the headlight current bypass the problematic Ford switch, and even stock lighting will be substantially brighter, if that's an important consideration.
I drove my GT350's at night frequently, so a H–4 headlight conversion was a must have. The Cibie H-4 lenses have a very pleasing convex curve to them, very period looking, and the light pattern is outstanding without blinding oncoming traffic.
Daniel Stern has the best quality relay harnesse, available in a kit form, or totally assembled. He also carries all the H-4 lighting upgrades one could ever wish for. I've never asked him a lighting question that he couldn't answer. A real professional.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html
Z
Thanks!
This is a very common problem on 67 Shelbys. 4 head lights but the standard 12A switch from the Mustang.
Should have been changed in the DSO to the 18A 4 head lamp switch at the factory in my humble opinion.
I replaced mine to the 69 Mustang switch and that solved the problem.
Texas Swede
Lol! I clicked on this thread just now at 289 views. I will look into the voltage regulator then and perhaps a 69 or 70 switch. It has to be something and the truth is out there if I may quote an X Files line...
Quote from: deathsled on September 19, 2018, 09:56:13 AM
Lol! I clicked on this thread just now at 289 views. I will look into the voltage regulator then and perhaps a 69 or 70 switch. It has to be something and the truth is out there if I may quote an X Files line...
How ever you proceed I would suggest that any changes be done one at a time so you can determine the offending system. Because of the way the regulator circuit operates and what with the observed symptom of the head lights completely going out and not just flickering it is very doubtful IMO the regulator is the source of the problem.
Thank you Bob. I will defer to your suggestion and start with the switch first and go from there. I am a total novice at automotive electronics I will admit.
One more thing, do you use the standard original sealed beam type bulbs or halogen replacements.
My experience with the halogen bulbs is they drew more current than the sealed beam type. Happened on both my 67 Shelby
and a 66 Mustang I used to own in Sweden. Many years ago though and todays halogen replacements may be quire
different.
Texas Swede
I can get better illumination holding a candle up to the windshield than using the OEM stock, non-relay headlights. :P
Quote from: texas swede on September 19, 2018, 11:43:36 AM
One more thing, do you use the standard original sealed beam type bulbs or halogen replacements.
My experience with the halogen bulbs is they drew more current than the sealed beam type. Happened on both my 67 Shelby
and a 66 Mustang I used to own in Sweden. Many years ago though and todays halogen replacements may be quire
different.
Texas Swede
Halogen. That may explain things.
Okay my options look like in addition to replacing the headlight switch then also changing the headlights to non halogen or alternatively putting a relay in and keeping the halogen set up after I change out the switch of course. I like the Ford scripted lights. Wonder if they are Halogen from Scott Drake. What am I faced with adding a relay? Question is how hard would it be to do myself? If I'm driving to MCACN I'll likely need headlights on the trip there and back in late November.
Best,
Richard E.
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 05:36:20 PM
Okay my options look like in addition to replacing the headlight switch then also changing the headlights to non halogen or alternatively putting a relay in and keeping the halogen set up after I change out the switch of course. I like the Ford scripted lights. Wonder if they are Halogen from Scott Drake. What am I faced with adding a relay? Question is how hard would it be to do myself? If I'm driving to MCACN I'll likely need headlights on the trip there and back in late November.
Best,
Richard E.
The Wagner repros that have FOMOCO etched into the glass that I have seen you could see the blue halogen bulb inside the lens from about fifty feet away. I don't think anything has changed.
Should I go with original type so I don't have to get into relays and wiring and so on therefore? Suggestions please. Thanks!
Adding the relay is not too hard, any wiring company has a diagram and most of the relay kits have instructions
Maybe someone can let us know if an already made up kit for 66 models exists
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 05:36:20 PM
".....What am I faced with adding a relay? Question is how hard would it be to do myself? If I'm driving to MCACN I'll likely need headlights on the trip there and back in late November.....
grasshopper, Take the path of least resistance. Contact Daniel Stern at link provided in my earlier post. His knowledge and products of all things automotive lighting are beyond superior. You can get a relay harness, Cibie lenses, and H-4 bulbs from him with the harness ALREADY assembled, and using the best components available today ( read: all European ). It will take you all of 30 minutes to install if you are not 100% satisfied, he'll refund your $$$ and I'll eat my words of recommendation.
The conversion will make night driving feel safe again, and you'll wonder how you ever got by without it.
Z
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 07:24:03 PM
Should I go with original type so I don't have to get into relays and wiring and so on therefore? Suggestions please. Thanks!
I would changeout the headlight switch for the heavy duty 4 bulb version and see how it works with a set of halogen bulbs. You may find that under the same circumstances with a strong heavy duty headlight switch that you don't have a problem . If it is still a problem consider going back to the non halogen . Yes we got by without them for half a century . Yes the halogens are brighter but unless you are going to drive at night often I don't think you should modify the harness or what have you unless you had to on a original Shelby. If making the lights shine as bright as the sun is your goal and that makes the most sense to you then go for it because it is your car. I just don't think it makes that much difference on a pleasure driven car . But that is just me . I know others will have a different opinion which is fine for them.
it bears pointing out that installing a relay harness, H-4 headlight lenses, and H-4 bulbs lighting does not involve cutting or splicing the original harness in any way, and is 100% reversible if desired. If original appearance under the hood is important, the (small) HL relay can be easily hidden . Night driving is greatly enhanced, with minimal effort and expense.
As Bob correctly points out, we, and these fine cars, did survive without these semi-modern lighting improvements. But with much more to lose these days, it does seem prudent to take some steps to keep the darkness as far away as possible.
Z
PS: After having Halogens for several years, I do agree that the switch to them is just a minimal improvement. Only after putting in the H-4 lenses & bulbs was I comfortable driving my GT350 at night . YMMV.
Thank you gentlemen. I will explore all avenues. I read though that if I use the 1969 switch that I have to change out the headlight pull stem and it changes the look of the headlight switch on the dash. Not crazy about that idea. I also watched a youtube on relay installation by CJ Pony and they drilled into the headlight bucket to ground the relay. That won't work for me. Either way, I will need lights to drive out to the Donald E Stephens Convention Center to get the car in the show. I must say that Bob Gaines is becoming a compelling force on whatever I do on my car. Hard to resist not falling in line with his knowledge and penchant for perfection. I've never met Bob, don't know what he looks like, but I hear in my mind what I perceive to be his voice when I am doing something non conforming to originality. Then I feel a bit guilty, letting him down. It's weird.
Best,
Richard E.
FWIW, my relay ground wire was a wire (blk) eyelet that went under the solenoid bolt. Unobtrusive, and definately no holes drilled anywhere. That would be unacceptable to me as well. A lousy idea, and to put it in an instruction video, just dumb.
Z
Well since all the wiring is new from the restoration (no not painless but concours type replacement harnesses so I'm told and requested during the assembly) I will lean in toward doing a relay. But I'm still checking out original type bulb options because this car is rarely driven at night...so once again, Mr. Gaines is the default.
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 11:26:43 PM
Thank you gentlemen. I will explore all avenues. I read though that if I use the 1969 switch that I have to change out the headlight pull stem and it changes the look of the headlight switch on the dash. Not crazy about that idea. I also watched a youtube on relay installation by CJ Pony and they drilled into the headlight bucket to ground the relay. That won't work for me. Either way, I will need lights to drive out to the Donald E Stephens Convention Center to get the car in the show. I must say that Bob Gaines is becoming a compelling force on whatever I do on my car. Hard to resist not falling in line with his knowledge and penchant for perfection. I've never met Bob, don't know what he looks like, but I hear in my mind what I perceive to be his voice when I am doing something non conforming to originality. Then I feel a bit guilty, letting him down. It's weird.
Best,
Richard E.
I will be at the show. I look forward to meeting .It is just good karma to try and help. I will pm you my cell number .
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 02, 2018, 01:51:40 AMI will be at the show. I look forward to meeting .It is just good karma to try and help.
^^^^^^^ ++++
As "a" good book says, " "...it's better to give than receive..." Certinly "getting" is a blast, but "giving" takes satisfaction to a whole new level.
Z
Looking forward to meet all in attendance. Thanks!
Quote from: zray on September 19, 2018, 12:26:54 AM
With a little creativity, one can install a headlight relay and have be nearly undetectable. A relay will let all the headlight current bypass the problematic Ford switch, and even stock lighting will be substantially brighter, if that's an important consideration.
I drove my GT350's at night frequently, so a H–4 headlight conversion was a must have. The Cibie H-4 lenses have a very pleasing convex curve to them, very period looking, and the light pattern is outstanding without blinding oncoming traffic.
Daniel Stern has the best quality relay harnesse, available in a kit form, or totally assembled. He also carries all the H-4 lighting upgrades one could ever wish for. I've never asked him a lighting question that he couldn't answer. A real professional.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html
Z
Okay I contacted Stern by email. (Don't tell Mr. Gaines).
I looked at a pair of original sealed bulbs but they were not functional...still considering all original though.
Quote from: deathsled on October 02, 2018, 11:38:35 AM
Looking forward to meet all in attendance. Thanks!
It looks like a great time, cant wait to see all the Shelby's
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 01, 2018, 06:23:33 PM
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 05:36:20 PM
Okay my options look like in addition to replacing the headlight switch then also changing the headlights to non halogen or alternatively putting a relay in and keeping the halogen set up after I change out the switch of course. I like the Ford scripted lights. Wonder if they are Halogen from Scott Drake. What am I faced with adding a relay? Question is how hard would it be to do myself? If I'm driving to MCACN I'll likely need headlights on the trip there and back in late November.
Best,
Richard E.
The Wagner repros that have FOMOCO etched into the glass that I have seen you could see the blue halogen bulb inside the lens from about fifty feet away. I don't think anything has changed.
The reproduction Halogens that have the molded in glass FoMoCo logo now have a silver tip element. When they first were introduced, they were blue.
Quote from: Brant on October 02, 2018, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 01, 2018, 06:23:33 PM
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 05:36:20 PM
Okay my options look like in addition to replacing the headlight switch then also changing the headlights to non halogen or alternatively putting a relay in and keeping the halogen set up after I change out the switch of course. I like the Ford scripted lights. Wonder if they are Halogen from Scott Drake. What am I faced with adding a relay? Question is how hard would it be to do myself? If I'm driving to MCACN I'll likely need headlights on the trip there and back in late November.
Best,
Richard E.
The Wagner repros that have FOMOCO etched into the glass that I have seen you could see the blue halogen bulb inside the lens from about fifty feet away. I don't think anything has changed.
The reproduction Halogens that have the molded in glass FoMoCo logo now have a silver tip element. When they first were introduced, they were blue.
I am glad to hear that they are addressing the short comings. Wish they next would use GE which was a OEM mfg back in the day instead of Wagner which was not under that name.
I ordered the relay and Cibie headlights from Daniel Stern as my car becomes more and more like a Mad Max post apocalyptic Shelby. I'll let all with interest know how it turns out (or doesn't turn out).
Best,
Richard
Please report your results.
Quote from: Brant on October 02, 2018, 01:43:12 PM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on October 01, 2018, 06:23:33 PM
Quote from: deathsled on October 01, 2018, 05:36:20 PM
Okay my options look like in addition to replacing the headlight switch then also changing the headlights to non halogen or alternatively putting a relay in and keeping the halogen set up after I change out the switch of course. I like the Ford scripted lights. Wonder if they are Halogen from Scott Drake. What am I faced with adding a relay? Question is how hard would it be to do myself? If I'm driving to MCACN I'll likely need headlights on the trip there and back in late November.
Best,
Richard E.
The Wagner repros that have FOMOCO etched into the glass that I have seen you could see the blue halogen bulb inside the lens from about fifty feet away. I don't think anything has changed.
The reproduction Halogens that have the molded in glass FoMoCo logo now have a silver tip element. When they first were introduced, they were blue.
I neglected to mention this before but thought I would mention before I forget again but the SJ Shelby cars built in 65,66,and 67 did not use a Westinghouse headlight bulb which was the only brand that had the molded FOMOCO trademark in the glass. The FOMOCO etched in the glass is the typically appropriate bulb used in those years at those plants for what ever reason . For that matter I have never found the Westinghouse bulbs used on 68 or 69/70 Shelby's ether. Has anyone else?