So what do we know about this car? Is it documented?
Anyone?
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/world-s-only-1969-ford-mustang-mach-1-390-with-a-factory-sunroof-comes-out-of-hiding-224764.html (https://www.autoevolution.com/news/world-s-only-1969-ford-mustang-mach-1-390-with-a-factory-sunroof-comes-out-of-hiding-224764.html)
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-081224120728-80362326.jpeg)
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-081224120727-80351456.jpeg)
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-081224120727-80341182.jpeg)
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-081224120727-80041015.jpeg)
Introduced for the 1969 model year, the Mach 1 was one of no fewer than six performance Mustangs available at the time. Sold alongside the GT, the Boss 429 and 302, and a pair of Shelby models, the Mach 1 became hugely popular. Specifically, Ford sold a whopping 72,458 units, almost a quarter of all Mustang production that year.
What made the Mach 1 such a big hit? Well, for starters, the package included more goodies than the GT. It came with a matte black hood with racing-style pins, a scoop, a unique stripe package, and an upgraded suspension. And unlike the Boss and Shelby models, it wasn't restricted to a specific engine.
Ford offered a more affordable version equipped with the two-barrel 351-cubic-inch (5.8-liter) Windsor V8. Customers who wanted more than 250 horsepower had access to the four-barrel variant, which delivered 290 horses. The options list also included the FE-type 390-cubic-inch (6.4-liter) unit good for 320 horsepower.
But unlike the GT, the Mach 1 was also available with the mighty 428-cubic-inch (7.0-liter) Cobra Jet V8. Offered in both Ram Air and non-Ram setups (Q- or R-code), the Cobra Jet mill generated 335 horsepower. While not quite as potent as the NASCAR-spec V8 in the Boss 429, it was the most potent mill customers had access to in the regular-production 'Stang.
High sales numbers also mean that first-year Mach 1 is quite the common classic nowadays. Sure, the Cobra Jet version is rarer at around 13,000 units, but it's a model you won't have issues finding. And it's not awfully expensive either.
That's not to say that some Mach 1s aren't very rare or unique. But that depends on features and the color combo. Sometimes, it takes a tiny item like air conditioning combined with an unlikely exterior/upholstery color match-up to turn a Mach 1 into a rare gem. This 1969 example in Gulfstream Aqua blue is a tad different because it flexes an option you won't find on any other Mach 1.
You won't notice it at first glance, but look closer, and you'll eventually see that this Mustang rocks a sunroof. Wait, what? A first-generation Mustang with a sunroof? You bet that's a weird feature because Ford did not offer such an option on the Mustang at the time. But a sunroof was available on the Mercury Cougar, and apparently, someone convinced Ford to put it on a Mach 1.
That someone is none other than Carroll Shelby, the man responsible for the cool GT350 and GT500 that turned the first-gen Mustang into a proper muscle car. And the story goes it's one of only two 1969 Mach 1s with a factory sunroof, so it's pretty much a one-of-one if we also factor in the options and the paint.
So what is the story behind this 'Stang? Did Carroll order it for his personal collection? Well, not exactly. Apparently, the car was specified for a doctor who took care of Shelby's mother. He asked if there was anything he could do for him in return, and the doctor requested a Mach 1 with a sunroof. Still working with Ford at the time, Carroll made some calls and turned the doctor's request into reality.
More than 50 years later, this unique Mach 1 is still around. And based on the way it looks, it went through a rotisserie restoration. It's spotless from every angle, and the Gulfstream Aqua color shines better than when this muscle car was new.
The blacked-out hood hides a 390 FE V8, so this Mustang wouldn't normally be as desirable and valuable as a Cobra Jet. However, that factory sunroof gives one-of-one status and puts it into six-figure territory. Hit the play button below to watch it sitting pretty at the MCACN show.
Sounds like hooey "factory" is a stretch, it would have been done after production was completed
I would say sunroof possible, through a dealer. Pretty sure dealers like Galpin offered them.
I would doubt Shelby connection without evidence
Lets see the papers
I have not seen it on the engineering lists
Most aftermarket sunroofs had a glass panel installed after the hole in the roof was cut with some type of moulding around it , this one has a metal panel with rolled edging that matches the roof metal perfectly , it looks like factory install at least that's what I see , anything is possible . If it is aftermarket they sure did a great job. I wonder is it power or manual ?
I have been digging around on this subject for the last couple of days. Already spoken to Pete and Jeff about it.
The sunroof appeared back as far as 65 in the T bird but didn't really take hold till 67 when the Cougars came out with them. From what I have gleaned, Cougar was the first car in North America offered with a factory sunroof. Does not appear Mustangs received factory sunroofs until 1971 again from the information I've found so far. Previous to 71 if the sunroof was added to a car other than the Cougar it was likely done after production and almost always by American Sunroof Company 1965 (American Specialty Cars 2004)
ASC installed all the Cougar sunroofs for Ford
The reason I'm asking is I am looking for more information about a 69 fastback with a Golde sunroof. I'm 99.99% confident it wasn't factory but it's hard to find any information on these cars with sunroofs at all.
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-081224145436-80371597.jpeg)
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-081224145436-80381405.jpeg)
"Factory" is where Im having the issue
I will try to recall where I saw an article
These cars were converted after they were built. The assembly lines were not equipped to do one or two specialty cars.
There were some Thunderbirds listed as Shelby engineering vehicles, I believe one or two.
The Cougars were done at AO Smith and the sunroof company.
I have inspected one 1968 Shelby that had a sunroof. It appears on the engineering list, but it does not specifically say it was a sun roof car
http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Cougars.html
69 GT 350 in Norway.
Ok so it looks like the movable panel was fiberglass , I'm wondering how they were able to cut the roof and bend the metal around the cut without warping the rest of sheet metal ( or did they weld a strip around the perimeter ? ) It's unclear whether the blue car has metal or fiberglass panel .
Some more info
https://moparsunroofregistry.com/asc-history/
Where's the Marti report? It would take someone with more clout at Ford than CS to get it built inhouse.
From what I've been able to find I don't believe the Marti report or the build sheet would indicate a sunroof in 69 as they were not installed at the factory.
FWIW -
- Phillip
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/134-081224173312.jpeg)
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on December 08, 2024, 05:09:24 PMFrom what I've been able to find I don't believe the Marti report or the build sheet would indicate a sunroof in 69 as they were not installed at the factory.
It would show if it was a special order and the original DSO and dealer it was shipped to.
Without any documentation it's just a line of HS...... since we're dealing with a Mustang and not a bull.
We then run into the problem of the Dr treating CSs mother at the time. She died in 1951.......
Her death certificate makes it easy to see which parent CS inherited his heart trouble from. The Dr was 53 in 1969.
Francis Etoise Lawrence Shelby
Birth 6 Mar 1903
Death 3 Jul 1951 (aged 48)
Burial Leesburg Cemetery
Leesburg, Camp County, Texas, USA
Memorial ID 58889274
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/58889274/francis_etoise_shelby
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on December 08, 2024, 05:50:43 PMWithout any documentation it's just a line of HS...... since we're dealing with a Mustang and not a bull.
Now that's a valid point :)
Quote from: Lincoln tech on December 08, 2024, 05:58:48 PMQuote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on December 08, 2024, 05:50:43 PMWithout any documentation it's just a line of HS...... since we're dealing with a Mustang and not a bull.
Now that's a valid point :)
Yes, you can't argue with that. The facts are the facts
I never would've thought of looking for his mother's death certificate that debunked the whole story.
Does somebody want to let them know they can take the sign down now?🤣
Chris T. looks like u were at the brothers collection (best muscle car collection in the world from what i seen). George H.. CDC out of detroit was a rep for ASC back in the 80s or so.
Couple of things/comments.
Not certain, would have to look at examples, but thought if Glapin offered a sun roof option it would have been done by the company that did the fabric style rather than ASC just due to shipping and other added cost the other style would not.
The claim in the original post have the big smell that appears to be piling on of "I'm special" First the sun roof and then throwing Shelby's name in on top. Sort of the its a double special car that we often see in ads and hyping cars. Not sure why Shelby's would have been messing with a Mustang like described in 69. Not like he was in the position of testing out ideas for Ford at that time.
So is it safe to say there were no Factory installed sunroofs in 69 for Mustangs? That's really the question im trying to answer.
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on December 08, 2024, 09:32:26 PMSo is it safe to say there were no Factory installed sunroofs in 69 for Mustangs? That's really the question im trying to answer.
Not that I've proven, pictures from the era or with original documentation. Nor heard of in 50 years
Back in the early 80s I went to see a Cobrajet Mach1 for sale in Brighton Mi. While looking at it the guy pulls a cover off a black with red interior CJ Mach1. It was originally owned by Heinz Prector. ASC put in the Sunroof when new along with a custom red cloth seats and headliner. Car was black. I wish I would have kept track of where I went as I have yet to see the car again 40 plus years later. The car was not restored right body wise as the paint was so so but it did have the ASC Cougar Sunroof in it. Is it factory? What is factory in this case? I got a friend(was a Ford engineer at the time) who took an 80s Anniversary Cougar fully loaded and had it shipped before delivery down to Atlanta to a major company doing conversions for the big 3 and had them convert it into a Convertible. He still owns it. All was done before delivery to him. Virtually no miles on it.
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 08, 2024, 03:00:35 PM"Factory" is where Im having the issue
I will try to recall where I saw an article
These cars were converted after they were built. The assembly lines were not equipped to do one or two specialty cars.
There were some Thunderbirds listed as Shelby engineering vehicles, I believe one or two.
The Cougars were done at AO Smith and the sunroof company.
I have inspected one 1968 Shelby that had a sunroof. It appears on the engineering list, but it does not specifically say it was a sun roof car
http://www.thecoralsnake.com/Cougars.html
There was a 68 GT 500, Red with White Stripes. It was a "Give Away" Car about 10 Years ago where the Winner got Two Red Shelby's.
Thirty-some years ago the fellow who painted my Shelby was also restoring a 68 fastback for his son. That 68 was equipped with an ASC sunroof. The fellow thought the car, bought used, came from California. Makes sense. The dealer would order a car and the have it sent to ASC for sunroof installation. I wish I knew where that car went.
The 68 red one was J. Stalbergers car, had an ASC sunroof, which was marked in german (owner Prechter was a german) "Ford Mustang Sonderausgabe", looked from the inside this way.
Would be nice to see an interior shot of the 69.
[link]http://www.ponysite.de/68shelbysunroof4.jpg[/link]
[link]http://www.ponysite.de/68shelbysunroof5.jpg[/link]
The red/saddle car is the car I inspected.
Its possible, but not documented
Quote from: roddster on December 09, 2024, 10:35:46 AMThirty-some years ago the fellow who painted my Shelby was also restoring a 68 fastback for his son. That 68 was equipped with an ASC sunroof. The fellow thought the car, bought used, came from California. Makes sense. The dealer would order a car and the have it sent to ASC for sunroof installation. I wish I knew where that car went.
The 68 Sunroof Car and a 2008 GT 500KR, both Red with White Stripes was given away in 2013 by "Dream Give Away" and the lucky Winner was a Man named W. Strickler in Michigan.
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on December 08, 2024, 09:32:26 PMSo is it safe to say there were no Factory installed PRODUCTION sunroofs in 69 for Mustangs? That's really the question im trying to answer.
Fixed it. I would think in that time period (I know they've done them since the 80s) Ford was doing the customer drive surveys. They could have had an outside company install a couple on the cars they toured with. It would be to gauge customer response for the accessory. The modded cars would have been sold off the employee lot or scrapped.
Heres the 1968. It would be great if some documents ever turned up
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/8-091224175626.jpeg)
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 09, 2024, 05:57:39 PMHeres the 1968. It would be great if some documents ever turned up
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/8-091224175626.jpeg)
Based on what I have found that looks like the same Golde sunroof.
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-091224182911.jpeg)
The car is currently apart of the Brothers Collection. I saw it yesterday.
More information on the car.
In reply #25the photo is exactly what I recall the 68 fastback I saw up close was like.
It is car 1503
Quote from: silverton_ford on December 09, 2024, 07:49:10 PMThe car is currently apart of the Brothers Collection. I saw it yesterday.
More information on the car.
That gentleman seems to be a bit confused as to whether it is factory or not :)
I had a 1968 ford sunroof manual that explains the whole sunroof program and it was an orange covered book and i gave it to george H as he and hank bought out the remaining sunroof inventory but it was mainly later model parts. A hand crank came with the older sunroofs to use if needed
Quote from: Lincoln tech on December 10, 2024, 12:17:30 PMThat gentleman seems to be a bit confused as to whether it is factory or not :)
He also avoided the word Shelby......
Again, just to add a little color to the discussion - here is a scan of my copy of the 1968 Cougar sunroof service brochure.
It is 24 pages not including cover.
- Phillip
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/134-101224142812.jpeg)
It also gives you an idea of the dimensions of the first Cougar factory sunroof openings.
In some of the Mustang pics they seem different.
- Phillip
The Cougar parts look made to order for the specific application and ease of assembly line production. The Mustangs have that pieced together aftermarket we don't care how long it takes your dealer to install it appearance.
Quote from: Lincoln tech on December 10, 2024, 12:17:30 PMThat gentleman seems to be a bit confused as to whether it is factory or not :)
Well it very likely installed by "the" factory. Just not the factory ( a Ford one) it comes across as ::)
Did go through the pictures of Mustangs I have with sun roofs. A couple with the ASC type and a couple with the cloth/vinyl design. Non of the 67 plus models had it listed on the Marti report - No surprise there. Have one 65 with it listed on a window sticker but the font looks different than seen on other examples and of course can't be sure its an original copy or home made. Just a picture never saw the car or paperwork in person.
A 70 with metal sunroof.
Has anyone brought up the subject of panel fitment? Is the contour of a 68 Cougar the SAME as a Mustang fastback or coupe? How is the fitment on a Mustang of the roof panels?
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 10, 2024, 06:17:50 PMQuote from: Lincoln tech on December 10, 2024, 12:17:30 PMThat gentleman seems to be a bit confused as to whether it is factory or not :)
Well it very likely installed by "the" factory. Just not the factory ( a Ford one) it comes across as ::)
Did go through the pictures of Mustangs I have with sun roofs. A couple with the ASC type and a couple with the cloth/vinyl design. Non of the 67 plus models had it listed on the Marti report - No surprise there. Have one 65 with it listed on a window sticker but the font looks different than seen on other examples and of course can't be sure its an original copy or home made. Just a picture never saw the car or paperwork in person.
On one of my Computers I have a Photo of a Dark Colored 65-66 Mustang Coupe with a Metal style Sunroof on the Track and it has a large CS Logo and the word SHELBY on the Rear Quarter Panel. I will try to find it and Post it.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on December 11, 2024, 07:50:54 AMHas anyone brought up the subject of panel fitment? Is the contour of a 68 Cougar the SAME as a Mustang fastback or coupe? How is the fitment on a Mustang of the roof panels?
I would say no, the contours aren't the same. It is important, because if the contour is altered on a Cougar, then the sunroof panel won't slide back into the roof properly.
When my G was with a previous owner, someone at the shop where it was being painted stepped on the sunroof panel when it was out of the car. They could not get it to open fully after that.
This owner then bought another sunroof Cougar just to get the sunroof parts. The panel from that Cougar worked perfectly in the G, so that goes to show you how consistent they were in locating the sunroofs in the same spot on every Cougar equipped with them.
- Phillip
A mustang coupe maybe same as a cougar BUT not a fastback as in 69-70 fastback the windshield is shorter and the roofline sloped back ward and the seat platforms are fastback only in 69-70 anyway and side glass is shorter also.
A local Mustang salvage yard/repair shop had a Cougar with a factory sunroof in it in the mid 1990's.
After about three years of constant hounding by a local Mustang owner it was cut out and installed on the coupe. I saw it a couple times at local shows and it functioned and fit perfectly.
Looks like a Sunroof Outline.
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 11, 2024, 07:52:31 PMLooks like a Sunroof Outline.
Recall t\hat picture though the whole sunroof on a race car doesn't make sense - IE additional weight. Maybe started with someones left overs that didn't work out. Nothing to connect it with "factory" installed or added at this point
BTW does anyone else think it looks like the side graphics were Photo Shopped on to the picture? Especially the CS since it appears to extend above the edge of the quarter panel and little to no curve in the number or GT350 as they go over the body lines. ::)
Jeff and all,
Agree 1000% with your observations. Also would really like to know more on the Mexican cars...they are very different and interesting as this picture demonstrates.
R.R.
At about 9:26 a Galpin sunroof Mustang is shown.
- Phillip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0CqMjJCrw
Quote from: propayne on December 12, 2024, 11:00:33 AMAt about 9:26 a Galpin installed sunroof Mustang is shown.
- Phillip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0CqMjJCrw
Nice find Phillip
So when he says "NO, this was all done at Galpin" (10:55) do you think he is referring to the sun roof as well as the rumble seats?
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on December 12, 2024, 11:16:06 AMQuote from: propayne on December 12, 2024, 11:00:33 AMAt about 9:26 a Galpin installed sunroof Mustang is shown.
- Phillip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0CqMjJCrw
Nice find Phillip
So when he says "NO, this was all done at Galpin" (10:55) do you think he is referring to the sun roof as well as the rumble seats?
I had a 1970 Grand'e Coue that had a Dealer Offered & Installed Rumble Seat. The Mustang Bible "Mustang Does It" has the Rumble Seat in it.
I have the ford rumble seat flyer pamplet that i found in an old ford dealer that has photos and sales info on the rumble seat option and was told somewhere in PA is a documented car cougar i think that had the rumble seat installed when new.
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on December 12, 2024, 11:16:06 AMSo when he says "NO, this was all done at Galpin" (10:55) do you think he is referring to the sun roof as well as the rumble seats?
Guess I was incorrect about my earlier statement that ALL Galpin cars would have likely had the fabric style. Didn't see anything that mentions if they ever did another with the ASC roof. With the sunroof another Galpin Special. Of course this does show that it wasn't "factory" in this case.
Quote from: Special Ed on December 12, 2024, 11:50:25 AMI have the ford rumble seat flyer pamplet that i found in an old ford dealer that has photos and sales info on the rumble seat option and was told somewhere in PA is a documented car cougar i think that had the rumble seat installed when new.
Sure it was a "Ford" flyer. Believe I've got copies of advertisements from the company that made them as a period modification. Surely like other places dealers would do just about anything to make a sale. We've got Mustangs being modified with things like after market wheel and accessories so that a dealer ship could have a "special" only buy here model. But we're getting off on IMO dealer ship modifications again.
Quote from: tesgt350 on December 12, 2024, 11:34:18 AMI had a 1970 Grand'e Coue that had a Dealer Offered & Installed Rumble Seat. The Mustang Bible "Mustang Does It" has the Rumble Seat in it.
Not sure if the Miller book should be referred to as a "bible" Just IMHO the first big hardback book on the subject. Drew a fair number of his own conclusions by taking pictures of Mustangs parted around homes and businesses in Southern Calif. The hobby was in its infancy at the time. Our family had a number of cars in some of his other books.
Guess we could explore all of the aftermarket parts and accessories of the time period but going to be a long one. Think we have one titled with Custom but that one leaned towards wheels a lot
Next thing you know they will be putting sloping fiberglass noses and spoilers on those things
😉
Hi Again,
Don't forget Ben Smith and the retractable hardtop conversion. He had plans to create a lighter fiberglass version. Our shop pointed out it was a fast way to loose trunk space and if Ford would have enjoyed success with the first "Retractable" they would not have stopped building them. Tooling costs even at that time would have been a big commitment and he wisely did not take it any further.
Many fun memories riding in a rumble seat! What a different way to enjoy the road.
Galpin was even involved with the flying Pinto project if memory serves....Great place to visit if you are in L.A.
R.R.
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 12, 2024, 01:50:14 PMNext thing you know they will be putting sloping fiberglass noses and spoilers on those things
😉
Yep ::) Don't get me started :)
Jeff do u have a fiberfab registry? HAHA
Quote from: Special Ed on December 12, 2024, 03:45:53 PMJeff do u have a fiberfab registry? HAHA
Yes there is one :) Had a web site also for it but not many examples out there so no real traffic. Not very active since there is a limited number of front ends (not counting reproduction ones made in the 90's. Lots of odd stories and history for some of them. Had one as a hill climber, one used in a movie. Company and owner compared to Shelby in the day by at least one major magazine. Even had one branch in Europe supplying/building cars. All was going well until the owner got into a lot of trouble with his home life and choices.
Kinda like the John Deloreon all aluminum car story
Well here is something I wasn't aware of. While leafing through The Marque Vol4 No2 this morning I found this.
Seems there was a study in 1968 about the posibility of a moonroof option for the 1969 Shelby.
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/178-131224111712.jpeg)
I will look through the product letters
I reviewed that bulletin. My copy is not very good, however this is my take away
The memo refers to Cougars and Thunderbirds (not Shelbys)
Shelby engineering was likely doing research for Ford at this time.
There is nothing in the memo to support a Mustang version
Here's a 1969 Galpin ad with a " hardtop convertible "
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/8-141224105711.png)
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2024, 10:58:15 AMHere's a 1969 Galpin ad with a " hardtop convertible "
Nice find Pete. Yes appears that Galpin, as usual was doing things other dealers were not.
Here are a couple of additional pictures on the subject
Believe both of these examples are Galpin cars now that I look at them and notes. May be the same car (at different stages of live while at Galpin) or different ones. Easy to see that both are ASC style design. With the car below wonder how many parade that one was in.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224175343-208091737.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224175345-20810123.jpeg)
To of the page of one of their newspaper ads announcing the rumble seat option. Easier to read this way ;) Galpin was not your "normal" or typical Ford dealer by any means IMO
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224182407-20813748.jpeg)
And a 68 San Jose built coupe with sun roof - not listed on Marti. Originally sold by Towne Ford in Redwood City
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224180250-208111577.jpeg)
And lastly - this post. A close up of what was left of the companies sticker applied to a 65 or 66 coupe they added a sun roof to at some point
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224180250-20811189.jpeg)
This whole discussion reminds me of the vinyl top fastbacks that we use to find from time to time in Calif. Same sort of adding things to make cars stand out and sell especially in the later months of the production year when sales slumped. That was an Acme Top, out of LA thing. But that's another thread and discussion. ::)
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2024, 10:40:19 AMShelby engineering was likely doing research for Ford at this time.
There was no "Shelby Engineering". Ford did all the engineering on Mustangs (even on the 427 Cobra chassis) All the 1965 chassis changes were developed by Ford. Ford sent their guys to SA to design the 67 (there were no "Shelby" chassis changes). The 68 was done at Ford (again Ford styling and available Mustang mechanicals only). SA had closed down as a manufacturer mid 67. Shelby Automotive was created and wholly owned by Ford (to isolate them from any Shelby American liabilities) and Ford engineers/stylists did all the work.
As of the 5-10-68 date Shelby was merely the advertising face of Ford's Shelby Automotive. His Shelby Racing Company had a contract to run in the TransAm series. They did no engineering on those cars either. The 67 cars were built by SA to specs provided by Kar Kraft. The 68 and 69 cars were built and provided by Kar Kraft. The 68 cars were sold (last years race car) and when Shelby's race contract expired (end of 69 TA season) the 69 cars went to Bud Moore since they could easily be converted to 1970 cars.
QuoteThere was no "Shelby Engineering". Ford did all the engineering on Mustangs
You are mistaken. Shelby engineers were Ford employees however there work was separate and distinct from the parent company. They had their own facilities in Ionia that were not in the AOSmith building. Several came from California.
The group and their work is referenced in numerous documents
Some of the work was subcontracted out of that department to other vendors and engineers that did not work for Ford.
One example is the 1969 EFI program, Shelby Engineering worked with the subcontractor Conelec to develop and test the cars. Ford had very little involvement in the actual program and the actual work was done in New York.
The archaic characterization of Shelby not being involved after 1967 is false. The 1968 - 1969 cars were created and produced by three separate entities, Ford, Shelby and AO Smith. That is what ultimately doomed the program.
You also state 68 and 69 cars were built by Kar Kraft. That is also incorrect. They were built by AOSmith. 1970 cars were modified by Kar Kraft, but only after being built as 1969 models by AOSmith. Engineering vehicles were not modified by Kar Kraft, but rather Shelby Engineering
Quote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2024, 08:35:01 PMQuoteThere was no "Shelby Engineering". Ford did all the engineering on Mustangs
You are mistaken. Shelby engineers were Ford employees
That's what I was trying to point out. They were Ford engineers assigned to Ford's Mustang model that carried the Shelby name. Just like F150 or Pinto engineers they had no tie to or input from CS. The same business model happened again with the 2005 GT500. It was done totally inhouse by Ford engineers before CS ever set eyes on it. Ford marketing had found that SVO, SVT and even the Cobra moniker did not produce the amount of sales needed to justify building performance Mustangs. Someone struck upon the idea of again using CS as the face of Ford Performance and sales went through the roof.
"This whole discussion reminds me of the vinyl top fastbacks that we use to find from time to time in Calif. Same sort of adding things to make cars stand out and sell especially in the later months of the production year when sales slumped. That was an Acme Top, out of LA thing. But that's another thread and discussion. ::)"
Jeff, don't forget that 6s001 had a vinal top.
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on December 16, 2024, 12:23:45 AM"This whole discussion reminds me of the vinyl top fastbacks that we use to find from time to time in Calif. Same sort of adding things to make cars stand out and sell especially in the later months of the production year when sales slumped. That was an Acme Top, out of LA thing. But that's another thread and discussion. ::)"
Jeff, don't forget that 6s001 had a vinal top.
Roy
I used to own a Red 1970 Fastback Mustang. White Interior, I6 Engine with Automatic Trans and it also had a FULL White Vinyl Top. I do have a Photo of it.
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 14, 2024, 06:10:02 PMQuote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2024, 10:58:15 AMHere's a 1969 Galpin ad with a " hardtop convertible "
This whole discussion reminds me of the vinyl top fastbacks that we use to find from time to time in Calif. Same sort of adding things to make cars stand out and sell especially in the later months of the production year when sales slumped. That was an Acme Top, out of LA thing. But that's another thread and discussion. ::)
I first saw this 70 Mach1 in 1984. Yellow with a vinyl top. A good friend later owned the car. The 69 Shelby vinned Boss 302 is next to it in its "1984" trim.
Quote from: TA Coupe on December 16, 2024, 12:23:45 AM"This whole discussion reminds me of the vinyl top fastbacks that we use to find from time to time in Calif.
Dealer added to up their profits. They always had a little extra sticker next to the maroni that listed thing like vinyl top, mag wheels, wheel locks, alarms, etc - all at twice the price you could get them for on the open market.
Stumbled upon this Golde Sunroof ad from April 1965:
see attachment
Quote from: J_Speegle on December 14, 2024, 06:10:02 PMQuote from: Coralsnake on December 14, 2024, 10:58:15 AMHere's a 1969 Galpin ad with a " hardtop convertible "
Nice find Pete. Yes appears that Galpin, as usual was doing things other dealers were not.
Here are a couple of additional pictures on the subject
Believe both of these examples are Galpin cars now that I look at them and notes. May be the same car (at different stages of live while at Galpin) or different ones. Easy to see that both are ASC style design. With the car below wonder how many parade that one was in.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224175343-208091737.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224175345-20810123.jpeg)
To of the page of one of their newspaper ads announcing the rumble seat option. Easier to read this way ;) Galpin was not your "normal" or typical Ford dealer by any means IMO
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224182407-20813748.jpeg)
And a 68 San Jose built coupe with sun roof - not listed on Marti. Originally sold by Towne Ford in Redwood City
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224180250-208111577.jpeg)
And lastly - this post. A close up of what was left of the companies sticker applied to a 65 or 66 coupe they added a sun roof to at some point
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-141224180250-20811189.jpeg)
This whole discussion reminds me of the vinyl top fastbacks that we use to find from time to time in Calif. Same sort of adding things to make cars stand out and sell especially in the later months of the production year when sales slumped. That was an Acme Top, out of LA thing. But that's another thread and discussion. ::)
They do have different wheels but could still possibly be the same car.
1952 Introducing Galpinized customs
The first Galpinized vehicle, the Galpin Custom, a '52 Ford convertible modified with Mercury and Lincoln parts, debuts at the Motoroma and subsequently graces the cover of Motor Trend. https://www.galpinautosports.com/
Galpin Auto Sports is still building "Galpinized" cars. They do some presale as bait and to customer specs. Here is their Mustang offering. They also have a Galpinized Porsche at that store.
https://www.galpinford.com/vehicle/1FA6P8CF4J5177150/Used-2018-Ford-Mustang-North_Hills-CA/
See if you can spot the Shelby link in the Galpin history page: https://www.galpinford.com/about-galpin/