Should be interesting..
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/shelby-mustang-gt500-fastback-by-revology/
I question why you would want a replica, when an original can be had for close to, if not the current price.
To each his own I guess.
Bill
Hmm...Shelby Authenticity Certificate....Titled as a 1967 Mustang....Hmm.....was it born as a A code, C code, T code....or new body...It will never a real one... ::)
I am sure it was born a W code
That's how it got its Authenticity
Quote from: cobrachi on November 21, 2024, 04:23:54 PMHmm...Shelby Authenticity Certificate....Titled as a 1967 Mustang....Hmm.....was it born as a A code, C code, T code....or new body...It will never a real one... ::)
Quote from: cobrachi on November 21, 2024, 04:23:54 PMHmm...Shelby Authenticity Certificate....Titled as a 1967 Mustang....Hmm.....was it born as a A code, C code, T code....or new body...It will never a real one... ::)
Quote from: acapulco350 on November 21, 2024, 04:49:00 PMI am sure it was born a W code
That's how it got its Authenticity
Quote from: cobrachi on November 21, 2024, 04:23:54 PMHmm...Shelby Authenticity Certificate....Titled as a 1967 Mustang....Hmm.....was it born as a A code, C code, T code....or new body...It will never a real one... ::)
Says in the auction chassis RC9BSTPC147
These are probably new dynacorn complete bodies. State issued or revology MSO vin
I am sick of people asking me if my real 67 is a real 67 because of cars like that...
It's a modern era kit car. New Dynacorn body and other components gathered far and wide. They pay SA a fee and SA blesses the build with a place in their unpublished unsearchable registry.
These licensed builds have ZERO connection to SA beyond paying a fee and getting your paperwork. To use the name Shelby they need the license from SA - to use GT500 and the trade dress (shape and look) they need a license from Ford. Ford fees vary by the number you want to build. They were willing to allow a guy I know to build 10 Mustang I replicas for no fee but they wanted a big amount to go beyond the 10. He didn't feel he could make enough per car to justify the tooling costs.
The federal rules changed a few years ago. It allows a component (kit) car builders to sell completed cars. The manufacturer creates a serial number and generates a MSO (manufacturer statement of origin) so the car can be registered. The year can be whatever the builder says it is since it states model year (must be at least 25 years old) not the year built. They do have to pass current EPA rules which is why they all get current drivetrains.
Low-volume manufacturer (LVM) exemption
The Fixing America's Surface Transportation Act (FAST Act) of 2015 exempts up to 325 replica vehicles annually from federal motor vehicle safety standards. However, replica vehicles must still meet equipment standards, such as those for lighting, brake hoses, glass, and tires.
Intellectual property
Replica vehicle manufacturers must certify that they own or have a license for the intellectual property associated with the vehicle. This includes patents, trademarks, and trade dress.
PS - why are they calling a 5.0 car a GT500???
I hear you 67 GT350 I have been dealing with that the past 22 years at local car shows. ::)
I know there was a Time, way back after the original Eleanor mess, SAI was offering continuation Shelby Mustangs for a while. Were those built BY them or FOR them? I am thinking now they decided it is easier to license someone to just Build them to their specs and just collect a Check.
ALSO: The one SA was putting out, were they Used Mustangs converted or did they start as Dynacorn Bodies?
While at the Indiana SAAC fall fest this past October,while displaying my GT350 #0036, I was admiring the Revology GT 350 on the floor. What's not too admire? Coyote motor, five speed,etc. While standing there looking, someone asked if it was my car. "Nah" I said, mine is that real one over there, pointing at my car, #0036.
Quote from: Bill on November 21, 2024, 02:13:57 PMI question why you would want a replica, when an original can be had for close to, if not the current price.
To each his own I guess.
Bill
a lot of younger generations want modern technology with older body style.......they don't care about original stuff
Quote from: SCJSTU on November 22, 2024, 11:47:17 AMQuote from: Bill on November 21, 2024, 02:13:57 PMI question why you would want a replica, when an original can be had for close to, if not the current price.
To each his own I guess.
Bill
a lot of younger generations want modern technology with older body style.......they don't care about original stuff
Yes. My 38 year old son freaks at the sight of a carburetor. Looking at my Webers left him speechless. That alone is a miracle.
EFI he totally understands. He does reburn his own and others CPU's for performance improvements. Carbs? Nah. Only lepers use those?
A 7 liter v-8, with TWO carburetors and a solid lifter cam? Whisky Tango Foxtrot! He stands behind me for protection.
He asks why does the engine sound like that? What's wrong with it?
Quote from: tesgt350 on November 22, 2024, 08:15:25 AM..... SAI was offering continuation Shelby Mustangs for a while.
CS figured it out early when he let J Brunk build 12 1966 GT350 convertibles in exchange for getting 4 of them for free. People would come to him with a plan to build X number of cars that he would bless as continuation models for X dollars per car. There were many doing it and he was raking in the money without any overhead. At one point I think he did offer to sell the cars - adding some cachet to the deal. That exposed him to the bad workmanship since SA delivered the cars. He found the "we only license them" to be an easier way out. Most were disastrous and used the cheapest rust buckets they could find as starting points. One was shut down because of all the (stolen?) cars sitting around with the VINs removed. Even the first 12 66s were pieced together junk when they were required to be 80% new parts. He had reactivated his manufacturers license for those. I knew a guy who worked at SA when CS got his convertibles. It took him several days to sort out each "new" car.
At the same time CS got into this new venture, some of my Shelby's original parts disappeared in SoCal. Coincidence? I think not.
If revology is smart, they will bid up this car privately to ensure it closes at a good number.
Quote from: edd1e22 on November 23, 2024, 03:42:24 AMIf revology is smart, they will bid up this car privately to ensure it closes at a good number.
Didn't a bunch of dealers get caught doing that with 308 Ferrari's in the 80's
In answer to above question Shelby did not build the Cars, it was a company called Unique.
They were built for "customers"
Shelby had very little to do with the builds other than to collect a royalty.
A good friend of mine worked for Revology for a few months. The car bodies were all Dynacorn and my friends job was getting them to fit correctly which he said required a great deal of time.
Quote from: Bill on November 21, 2024, 02:13:57 PMI question why you would want a replica, when an original can be had for close to, if not the current price.
To each his own I guess.
Bill
I think it is part of the current phenomena in which people travel information wise? It can be seen in other subjects as well. I think that could be accurately called, pretty much documented right now?
Advertising people will talk about how you reach people to make your case.
There just are going to be people that deny reality as some kind of a conspiracy thing? The original cars in this case being the conspiracy and the copies somehow the genuine article? A kind of inverse Universe.
I agree that I would rather have an original, and I do. But for example, the continuing line of "Elanors" constantly outsell original cars at the auctions. What's that about? That defies logic.
So philosophically it seems to be a valid observation that we are living in multi-dimensional existence simultaneously?
Falling back on earlier less complicated times, I refer to a lyric quote from the "Mashal Tucker Band", "heard it in a love song...can't be wrong!"
Some things you just can't figure, so don't waste your time on trying to. You can't fix it or maybe stated differently, "you can't fix stupid".
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 23, 2024, 09:44:46 AMQuote from: Bill on November 21, 2024, 02:13:57 PMI question why you would want a replica, when an original can be had for close to, if not the current price.
To each his own I guess.
Bill
I think it is part of the current phenomena in which people travel information wise? It can be seen in other subjects as well. I think that could be accurately called, pretty much documented right now?
Advertising people will talk about how you reach people to make your case.
There just are going to be people that deny reality as some kind of a conspiracy thing? The original cars in this case being the conspiracy and the copies somehow the genuine article? A kind of inverse Universe.
I agree that I would rather have an original, and I do. But for example, the continuing line of "Elanors" constantly outsell original cars at the auctions. What's that about? That defies logic.
So philosophically it seems to be a valid observation that we are living in multi-dimensional existence simultaneously?
Falling back on earlier less complicated times, I refer to a lyric quote from the "Mashal Tucker Band", "heard it in a love song...can't be wrong!"
Some things you just can't figure, so don't waste your time on trying to. You can't fix it or maybe stated differently, "you can't fix stupid".
BINGO!
You just checked every box on my card.
Quote from: Chris Thauberger on November 23, 2024, 11:19:27 AMQuote from: shelbydoug on November 23, 2024, 09:44:46 AMQuote from: Bill on November 21, 2024, 02:13:57 PMI question why you would want a replica, when an original can be had for close to, if not the current price.
To each his own I guess.
Bill
I think it is part of the current phenomena in which people travel information wise? It can be seen in other subjects as well. I think that could be accurately called, pretty much documented right now?
Advertising people will talk about how you reach people to make your case.
There just are going to be people that deny reality as some kind of a conspiracy thing? The original cars in this case being the conspiracy and the copies somehow the genuine article? A kind of inverse Universe.
I agree that I would rather have an original, and I do. But for example, the continuing line of "Elanors" constantly outsell original cars at the auctions. What's that about? That defies logic.
So philosophically it seems to be a valid observation that we are living in multi-dimensional existence simultaneously?
Falling back on earlier less complicated times, I refer to a lyric quote from the "Mashal Tucker Band", "heard it in a love song...can't be wrong!"
Some things you just can't figure, so don't waste your time on trying to. You can't fix it or maybe stated differently, "you can't fix stupid".
BINGO!
You just checked every box on my card.
:)
Quote from: Bill on November 23, 2024, 06:33:07 AMDidn't a bunch of dealers get caught doing that with 308 Ferrari's in the 80's
No crime in doing that but you do run the risk of buying your own car at an inflated price. The big stink in the 80s was the auctions were being used to launder money. Stick your car in the auction and have some front guy (usually with a foreign passport) buy it for big money with your own ill gotten cash. The frontman sells you your car back (taking his fee) and you get a clean check from the auction house.
Quote from: Bill on November 23, 2024, 06:33:07 AMYour post
I don't think it's illegal. The high end watch companies do this often to keep prices "correct"
Quote from: bsolo66 on November 23, 2024, 09:29:01 AMYour post
That's not surprising. They had a sales rep bring out a green 68 bullit model to showcase. I was in their interest list and got to see one in person and test drive it. The car looks and sounds phenomenal but upon closer inspection, it was finished quite poorly.
The interior panels and trim didn't line up and screws were mis-spaced. A piece of the door trim was sticking out too far and left an impression mark against the dash. It almost looked like someone put it together in their garage.
Coincidentally, I also went to a cobra experience event in Martinez (Drew Serbs place). I met a guy with a Revology 1967 gt500. The guy had nothing good to say about their after sales customer service including allegations that there were material defects in the transmission design and assembly leading to the transmission to fail at under 10k miles. I don't remember all the details but they essentially ghosted him and he had to pay out of pocket to get it fixed.
After the above, it cemented my decision to steer clear of purchasing one.
There is a Green one (I think 67 GT500) in my area, came to a few Shows and Cars & Coffee's. I wasn't impressed with it and neither were a lot of other people that checked it out. They all said the same thing, "For what he paid, he got took". They should have spent a LOT more time on Fit and Finish. He did win a Trophy but I think it was because he kept telling everyone how much he paid for it trying to impress them.
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 23, 2024, 09:44:46 AMI agree that I would rather have an original, and I do. But for example, the continuing line of "Elanors" constantly outsell original cars at the auctions. What's that about? That defies logic.
My guess is they've become so regular at auctions for so long now that buyers likely have them as a checklist car for their collection. Park an eleanor clone and a real '67 Shelby side by side at a big cars-n-coffee and watch which car gets the most attention... I would place my bets on the eleanor.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on November 25, 2024, 10:18:17 AMQuote from: shelbydoug on November 23, 2024, 09:44:46 AMI agree that I would rather have an original, and I do. But for example, the continuing line of "Elanors" constantly outsell original cars at the auctions. What's that about? That defies logic.
My guess is they've become so regular at auctions for so long now that buyers likely have them as a checklist car for their collection. Park an eleanor clone and a real '67 Shelby side by side at a big cars-n-coffee and watch which car gets the most attention... I would place my bets on the eleanor.
I agree, it's a bit unfortunate but true. There seems the be the thought among many that new is more useable, more comfort and more power, brakes, bigger wheel/tires and features with the look ("improved") in some eyes.
It seems the part that maybe is overlooked is that what makes the older cars unique is how they ran/drove, even with all the little quirks. That's the experience... to drive a car with engineering and feel from that time period. I'm sure a lot of us daily drove cars like this, my first car was a '68 mustang that was a daily driver for several years. I daily drove a '65 fastback for several years also.
There's certainly a place for these modern restomods, which is what they are. The same car could have been created by a backyard builder with good fabrication skills... likely would consume that persons life, but possible. We've all seen some very well done restomods done by the owners.
The part that seems odd to me, maybe someone can explain it better, has to do with CS licensing. That's basically just this company licensing the 'Shelby' name and maybe 'GT500' to be put on the car? There's a licensing certificate in the auction pics, signed by the CEO of SA that looks like something more than just a name licensing document. It seems to suggest that the complete car is something that SA is endorsing, although surely that can't be?
I looked through all the pics in the auction, I see a lot of regular reproduction parts used and some improvements on original design. Covering the rear panels in leather (I guess it's leather and not vinyl) is a nice touch. It's obvious that most of the work was done with the undercarriage and drivetrain. Have to wonder if they make much profit selling at the 300k+ price point.
Quote from: CharlesTurner on November 25, 2024, 12:01:23 PMIt seems the part that maybe is overlooked is that what makes the older cars unique is how they ran/drove, even with all the little quirks. That's the experience... to drive a car with engineering and feel from that time period. I'm sure a lot of us daily drove cars like this, my first car was a '68 mustang that was a daily driver for several years. I daily drove a '65 fastback for several years also.
There's certainly a place for these modern restomods, which is what they are. The same car could have been created by a backyard builder with good fabrication skills... likely would consume that persons life, but possible. We've all seen some very well done restomods done by the owners.
The part that seems odd to me, maybe someone can explain it better, has to do with CS licensing. That's basically just this company licensing the 'Shelby' name and maybe 'GT500' to be put on the car? There's a licensing certificate in the auction pics, signed by the CEO of SA that looks like something more than just a name licensing document. It seems to suggest that the complete car is something that SA is endorsing, although surely that can't be?
I looked through all the pics in the auction, I see a lot of regular reproduction parts used and some improvements on original design. Covering the rear panels in leather (I guess it's leather and not vinyl) is a nice touch. It's obvious that most of the work was done with the undercarriage and drivetrain. Have to wonder if they make much profit selling at the 300k+ price point.
I am creating a new Business called "BLACK HAT PERFORMANCE" and I plan to do just that, build a limited number of them. How I will get around the Licensing issues of using the Shelby Name is simple, I will be converting real Shelby Mustangs which will be called "Black Hat Edition Shelby's" and each one will come with a Black Stetson Hat like Carroll used to wear. All will be painted Black with Black Custom Interior and Matt Black Stripes. Create Motor, big 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Adjustable Suspension, Exhaust, Wheels/Tires, Roll Cage, etc. and priced under $500K.
My thoughts in bold
Quote from: CharlesTurner on November 25, 2024, 12:01:23 PMThe part that seems odd to me, maybe someone can explain it better, has to do with CS licensing. That's basically just this company licensing the 'Shelby' name and maybe 'GT500' to be put on the car? There's a licensing certificate in the auction pics, signed by the CEO of SA that looks like something more than just a name licensing document. It seems to suggest that the complete car is something that SA is endorsing, although surely that can't be?
In the distant lawsuit where CS sued Ford when they used GT350 on a Fox body he was reminded that Ford owned ALL of the SA trademarks (not his name). To settle it quickly and out of court (Ford didn't want to be seen as the bad guy) they allowed him free use of the Cobra name on 2 seat sports cars (his continuation cars). It is 100% just allowing the name Shelby to be used. There is no endorsement of the product or implied warranty by SA. If you buy a piece of junk it's between you and the builder/seller SA is not involved.
....I see a lot of regular reproduction parts used and some improvements on original design. Covering the rear panels in leather (I guess it's leather and not vinyl) is a nice touch. .... Have to wonder if they make much profit selling at the 300k+ price point.
Add up the price of the parts - taking into account that they'll get a discount as a reseller or for the quantity they buy. As has been noted they are not well assembled or detailed. Assembly is probably a minimum wage job at the builders. These are "production" restomods. The quality 1 off restomods builds by good shops sell for big money due to the quality of the build. These lose money because people realize the quality is not there. In reality an original for $100,000 less is the better deal.
Quote from: tesgt350 on November 25, 2024, 12:57:53 PM...... How I will get around the Licensing issues of using the Shelby Name is simple, I will be converting real Shelby Mustangs which will be called "Black Hat Edition Shelby's"
I'm certain you will get a cease and desist letter from Neil Cummings (CS licensing). This is a "new" product using not only Shelby's name but his trademark hat. Ford may also jump in since they are the ones who paid CS to use his name on their Mustangs in the first place. What us little guys forget big companies have inhouse lawyers that sit around all day looking to do something that justifies their paycheck. Shelby Licensing is Neil Cummings - a lawyer who has protected Shelby's name for decades.
Basically you will be in direct competition with SA who also makes post title modifications to the Ford Shelby Mustangs. When Ford Marketing came up with the idea to see if again adding the Shelby name to a Mustang to increase sales they approached CS with a "how much per car" deal. CS countered with $1,000 per car. In the end Ford gave him a multi year personal services contract for 12 million (and worked him like a dog for it). Ford saw a great jump in sales over the previous performance Mustangs that were branded SVO, SVT and even Cobra. Even though all were 100% developed inhouse by Ford engineers CS's involvement as face of Ford Performance was the magic that increased sales. They are not going to let you ride on their coat tails with an "edition" of their car that has the sound of being a Ford or SA product.
Black hat trademark: https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/361693
RE the "Centennial Edition" Shelby - "This Shelby Mustang delivers the level of performance that Carroll expected to have his name on a car. We're so confident that he'd approve of the Carroll Shelby Centennial Edition Mustang that
we are throwing in a black Stetson like the one he wore, with each car."BTW: Your paint scheme is also a duplicate of what SA used on the Centennial Edition. https://www.shelby.com/Vehicles/Carroll-Shelby-Centennial-Edition-Mustang
You might even get sued by the Shelby Foundation since Shelby's Black Hat is an integral part of their campaign and logo. https://www.shelbystore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SWSHBY4632&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA3ZC6BhBaEiwAeqfvykXxsuTIf2c5uRil3tWBLk8_Dv3Yk3YUupLo6zhGMqO9UcXlfENoeRoCrskQAvD_BwE
Before or after you buy the GT40?
😉
Sold for $292,500.........
Pat
Quote from: azdriver on November 26, 2024, 01:50:01 PMSold for $292,500.........
Pat
well that proves there's a place for everything.........we can all get along
Well, if you look at it for what it is and what it's suppose to represent outwardly. I can see the appeal. Modern power and technology and creature comfort environment wrapped in an attractive vintage popular color combination (67 GT500 that is not an original). Dare I say, it's very nice. But NOT $292,500.00 nice. Half that say in the $120-$140ish given the amount of time and money invested.
eh, to each his own.
Cheers,
~Earl J
Is your "time out" over already?
;)
Quote from: SFM5S000 on November 26, 2024, 05:41:56 PMWell, if you look at it for what it is and what it's suppose to represent outwardly. I can see the appeal. Modern power and technology and creature comfort environment wrapped in an attractive vintage popular color combination (67 GT500 that is not an original). Dare I say, it's very nice. But NOT $292,500.00 nice. Half that say in the $120-$140ish given the amount of time and money invested.
eh, to each his own.
Cheers,
~Earl J
It is encouraging in one sense. There are people out there that are willing to spend money on cars. Lately I was concerned with that?
Is it strictly the concept that one is new and the original is old?
I get the part that there are different "generations of people" out there such as baby boomers, generation x, etc.
Is there a new generation that should be titled "generation F'd-up"?
Quote from: shelbydoug on November 26, 2024, 07:41:27 PM.....Is it strictly the concept that one is new and the original is old? ......
I think a lot of it is old v new. There are those of us who are afraid of not being able to wrench on a new car with all its electronics and a like number of those who don't know how to adjust a set of points or even set the idle on a carb.
Bottom line - car guy = prefers old - non car guy who wants the car he didn't have in his youth will buy the new one.
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 26, 2024, 06:38:24 PMIs your "time out" over already?
;)
I didn't think it would last :-\ :o ::)
Quote from: Coralsnake on November 26, 2024, 06:38:24 PMIs your "time out" over already?
;)
It was nice while it lasted. I guess it is as they say " All good things must come to an end".