Hi Guys,
I have been rejuvenated by the outpouring of support from all of you that I met at SAAC 43. The overall event was amazing, and the Denbeste tour, the Cobra Experience museum, and a ride in the Ford Performance GT 350R around Sonoma Raceway made for an unforgettable experience.
So now I'm home, and it's time to get re-started on the restoration of # 444. It's been a couple of years since you have heard from me about this car, and without going into a lot of detail I feel that an explanation is overdue. I started on this car in the fall of 2010, and in 2012 my beautiful bride of many years was diagnosed with cancer. I lost her in 2017, and as you can imagine, the last couple of years have been a blur.
The restoration project stalled in 2016 when she was very ill, and I haven't been out in the shop to work on the car for about
16 months. But the mere fact that I can even write this post is an indicator that I am getting better. To kick off this topic, I thought I would re-post the original posts that evaporated when the forum crashed. I will add more photos and updates as I go forward in this restoration and the next chapter in life. Check it out. Mark
The Backstory on ‟65 Shelby Mustang G.T.350 # SFM5s444
Some cars fall off the radar and are never heard from again... Others go dormant waiting for the right time to resurface. October 2010 was the right time for # 444.
This story starts on November 10th, 1965 when Dr. Hankins of Loma Linda, CA walked into Warren Anderson Ford in Riverside CA and bought his dream car. After a couple years, it was time for something different, and Dr. Hankins traded in the Shelby. Sometime in 1967 a general contractor named Don Duvall from Yucca Valley, CA bought the car and changed out the ring & pinion to a taller gear since he was commuting about 60 miles a day to & from work. Don enjoyed the car for a few years in the local area, and eventually sold the car to a local cement contractor Greg Lewis in 1970. Greg owned and drove the car locally for about 6 months, and one Friday night when Greg was in dire need of some cash, his buddy Lee offered up $ 150 and the pink slip to his ‟66 Mustang GT if Greg would sign over the pink on the Shelby.
Yep, Greg signed over the title on the Shelby, and on the following Monday morning, Lee went to the DMV office in 29 Palms and transferred ownership to his name. Of course, Greg later regretted his decision and asked Lee to un-do their deal and get his Shelby back. Lee declined. Lee was 18 in 1970, and he already knew how special the Shelby G.T. 350 was in the world of performance cars. Lee re-installed the 3.89 Detroit Locker differential and did what any red blooded teenager in Southern California would do at the time. He drove the wheels off the Shelby.
Sometime during the first year of ownership, Lee and the Shelby had a disagreement with a Joshua Tree on the side of the dirt road leading to his dad‟s five acre homesteaded parcel, and the driver‟s side front fender & headlight were mortally wounded. The repairs then led to a paint job of white LeMans stripes over a blue base. The next few years Lee drove the car pretty hard, with a fair amount of street racing ( including me in my ‟69 Mach 1 ) a few minor changes to personalize the car, and always regular service to keep the screaming 289 in tune. Eventually, life changed with marriage, a move to a house with no garage, and the Shelby got parked at his dad‟s place in Joshua Tree, CA for safe keeping. That was in the fall of 1974. Soon the license tags expired, and Lee would occaisionally go out to his dad‟s place and drive the car around the neighborhood, but inevitably the brakes got spongy, the battery went dead, and the relentless sun and wind in the desert shredded the car covers. Lee decided that someday, he would restore the car back to original condition.
As the years rolled by from about 1975 to present, I would see Lee around town every couple of years and ask him if he still had the car. He always said " Yes, and it‟s not for sale". Lee says that he has had many offers over the years from people that knew he had the car somewhere, but he never would sell. Lee always felt that someday, he would be the one to bring her back to life.
Fast forward to September 2010, when my wife and I are talking about getting a project car to restore, and Lee‟s Shelby comes to mind. The fact that I have known Lee for some 40 years, and raced against him ( and lost ) back in the early ,,70s, rekindled the emotional connection to our younger days when gas was cheap, responsibility was minimal, and our goal was to get sideways and airborne in whatever we were driving.
Since we live in neighboring towns, I thought it would be easy to find Lee and the Shelby. Several weeks later, one of my friends that Lee used to work for as a machinist says he knows how to get to Lee‟s house in Joshua Tree. That Saturday afternoon of Sept. 25th I had finished looking at all the cars at the Morongo Basin Old Car Club‟s annual show in Yucca Valley and decided to follow some cryptic directions and look for Lee and the Shelby. About an hour into the search, while driving up and down old dirt roads in a rural area of north of Joshua Tree, I spotted the rear corner of what looked like an old Mustang behind a Travel Trailer parked in the middle of a fenced 5 acre parcel. I parked on the street, walked up the long drive and knocked on the door to the house. No answer. I was a little concerned about the perception of trespassing, so I briefly went around back, found the car baking in the sun, shot a few photos, and left a note on the front door of the house asking Lee to give me a call about the Mustang.
A few days later, Lee calls and I ask if he is interested in selling the car ? To my amazement, he didn‟t say NO. Although he didn‟t say yes, he did agree to meet and talk face to face. When we met the next day, he asked if I had a garage or shop to do a restoration, so I invited him to see my house, garage, and shop that was fully equipped and waiting for a project car. After some reminiscing and discussion, we parted that day with Lee thinking about selling his 40 year obsession, and me thinking that this may be a project I couldn‟t afford.
I had contacted Howard Pardee at SAAC after I first saw the car on Sept. 25th, to ask questions on how to authenticate the car, and he advised where the hidden VIN numbers were on the inner fender panels, and the corresponding VIN stamped on the block under the # 1 spark plug.
When I next spoke to Lee and asked if I could come out to the house and search out the VIN numbers, he said " OK, you‟ll find the car is 100% original ". That following Saturday I spent several hours with wrenches, engine degreaser, and elbow grease to find all the numbers Howard told me to look for. A call that night to Howard confirmed that SFM5s444 was indeed authentic, and in Howard‟s words " ... you‟re an idiot if you don‟t buy that car".
So, on October 9th I went back out to Lee‟s house with a briefcase full of cash, and we agreed that I would be the next caretaker of #444, and with Lee‟s help in the restoration process the Shelby would soon rise again, and Lee will be the first one to drive # 444 when the restoration is complete.
Since I had the car towed to my house on October 9th, I have had many conversations with Howard Pardee, and his knowledge and experience have proven invaluable in guiding me in the right direction for a complete restoration. One of his suggestions was to have a Shelby consultant come and see the car. I called Craig Conley in San Marcos, CA and he agreed to drive out and take a look. Craig‟s visit took several hours to inspect every inch of # 444, and he helped me make a fairly short list of required parts to bring the car back to original condition. The car is miraculously rust free, has all original motor components from the air cleaner housing down to the cast aluminum Cobra oil pan. The Borg Warner T10 aluminum trans and original rearend are in the car. I needed a front bumper/valance group, a hood, and some original gauges for the pod, and I would be ready to start a complete rotisserie restoration. Since that visit, Craig has been very helpful with my restoration questions, and has supplied some of the missing parts.
So now, I‟m in early January 2011 and the written and photo documentation is well under way, and someday soon ( OK, maybe not very soon ) # 444 will rise again.
Then there was an update to the Backstory:
Hi Everyone, as of 1/28/2011 The Backstory got an update. Thanks to Howard Pardee and his documentation on 5s444. I obtained copies of those documents showing the dealer order to Shelby, and a warranty claim back to the dealer for a broken equalizer shaft. Remember in the original story that the car was sold from Warren Anderson Ford in Riverside on 11/10/1965 to Dr. Hankins. On Dec 27, 1965 the Shelby came back to that same dealer for repairs ( $ 3.36 in parts and $ 12.00 Labor ) to replace the broken equalizer shaft or Z Bar that is the linkage between clutch pedal and trans. That document listed Dr. Hankins and a physical address. This address was critical. Read on... Finding someone that bought a car 45 years ago is a challenge, so I enlisted the help of a friend that is a Private Investigator to find Dr. Hankins. Sure enough, a few days later I got a call saying " I found Dr. Hankins son, and here's his phone number ". So I make the call to Dr. Hankins III in Los Angeles, and explain my quest to find the original owner. He confirms that his family lived near Loma Linda in '65, and used Warren Anderson Ford to service their cars. But, he was living overseas from '65 to '69 and maybe his dad bought the car for one of his sisters, but he didn't remember any history with a Shelby Mustang. He gave me his sisters name & number and I call her right away. She was very cooperative in describing her '67 Mustang, and her sister's Thunderbird, but had no memory of a white Shelby Mustang. So, I call back to Dr. Hankins III, and ask who else in the family I might talk to, and he said Uncle Frank had passed away also, so he had no other information. But, he did mention that back in the mid '60's, his dad Dr. Hankins was often confused with another doctor at the same Loma Linda University Hospital, and that doctor was Dr. Henken. Back to that critical address mentioned earlier. I called my P.I. back, explained the dead end with Dr. Hankins, and asked if we could search the county recorders database for the 1965 property owner of the address on the warranty claim. Guess what ? Dr. Henken owned the house at the address listed on the warranty claim form. So, while I'm kicking tires at the Barrett Jackson Auction in Scottsdale last weekend, the P.I. is looking for Dr. Henken. Well, on Wednesday 1/26/11 the P.I. calls and says " I found Dr. Henken, and he's expecting your call ". I almost had a stroke. I called the good doctor ( an orthodontist in San Clemente, CA. ) and after explaining my journey to find out all the detail on the car's history, he said " My dad and I were dickering over whether he would buy me a Shelby Cobra or a Shelby Mustang for graduation, and on that day in November 1965, I drove the Shelby Mustang off the showroom floor at Warren Anderson Ford in Riverside. He drove over to his cousin Larry's house to check out the Shelby, and take it for a spin. The next couple of years the future orthodontist spent time in the Shelby drag racing with cousin Larry and his brother (Larry had a '62 Vette and the brother had a '65 Mustang ) against locals on roads between the orange groves in Loma Linda, swapping out the 3.89 gears for 4.11s and a separate set of rims with slicks to race at Orange County International Raceway at the Saturday night drags. He says the Shelby was fast, and held a class record for the first season at OCIR, and even got to drive it in some timed rallys at Riverside International Raceway. He said the car was never wrecked while he owned it, and it only needed minor tune ups and a new clutch the second year. Eventually, he left home for college ( no cars on campus ) and only drove the car on breaks or vacation. His mom & dad moved the car around the driveway as needed, but when he moved to Hawaii in '67 to go to college ( and surf ) for his sophomore year, his mom got tired of moving the car with it's stiff racing clutch, and eventually took the Shelby back to the dealer to be sold. Dr. Henken says his mom is still alilve, but with some health issues and her long
term memory is surprisingly clear. He told me that he will ask his mom if she remembers which dealer she took the car to ( he says: most likely is Warren Anderson Ford ) or how it was sold. Dr. Henken also tells me that there are old family photo albums somewhere, and that he has a few photos of the car back in the day. The rest of the Backstory from Don Duvall's purchase in late '67 to present was much less work to research, as most of his friends and subsequent owner's friends are still around for me to talk to. So, if not for a typo on a warranty claim form, I would have known the correct original owners name sooner and saved all the chasing of the wrong Dr. Hankins. But here we are, finally finding the right guy, and when photos are made available, I will make additional posts with photos, and the missing piece of this puzzle will be put into place. Stay tuned... Mark.
Mark
Deepest sympathies on the passing of your wife, can only imagine the effort it takes to "dust off" and move forward
There is another thread on the forum about the decline of SAAC/Interest waning on our cars etc - Well your story proves to me that we are going strong - nothing is more stirring than the passion, personal connections and willingness to share our Shelby stories
I really appreciate your post (backstory) and look forward to your updates
cheers
greg
Mark - so sorry to hear about your wife.
Thank you very much for sharing the story of the car, I know it's in good hands and likely will be for a fairly long time. Glad to here that your perseverance paid off in the long run and you could close the loop of the history of the car and its owners
Enjoy
First off condolences on your wife's passing. What an amazing back story on your Shelby and it's history, good luck on the restoration/preservation of your R model.
Sorry for your loss Mark. It's obvious that you cherished your wife and I'm sure she was blessed to have you by her side through the struggle.
I'm glad that you shared your story and reconnected with your passion for Shelbys. Looking forward to updates on your progress and seeing 444 brought back to life!
~Kevin
Mark, like others have expressed so sorry for your loss but am glad you are back working on your car and again posting updates. I remember reading your posts and when the old site broke down and they were all lost it let a void.
Please keep us all informed and can't wait for future photos; even some of the original would be nice to see again.
Doug - Valencia, CA
Mark, Thank you for posting this. It is great to see you back. I remember reading about your car. It is great to see! I can't wait to see more progress as time goes on.
Here is an article from Mustang Monthly back in 2011.
http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mump-1112-1965-shelby-gt350-rare-find/ (http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mump-1112-1965-shelby-gt350-rare-find/)
Mark,
It was fantastic seeing you again at SAAC 43 and meeting Rochelle.
I have always loved the story about the history of 5S444, so thank you for sharing it again. I'm excited that you are getting back into it!
I hope you don't mind, but I always loved this picture that you posted a while back, so I wanted to share it again:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yBRuCzkxI6k3FxRP79xWZS2H9NTTr8TKRXIyoiqBzcHv9xAIAVdiDsvisAgeoFr1knOHLrwhCBTGfX-1QpSNt63tHXSQjOYMEA668BHW4Wq9rOy7VP9HR-Z6cDPTjm6htr1NPfP21AI5JtefKi3F85NAOeqVko7_8W2JS2pKCdS0MtyCtuGdUhIMLNY0HQA32DNAPhuV6aPpELNKLwF9DZqQHJ67KSwlYFRoYiDnjQW-a7xNJuewC_WZ2Or80Tb9b67teiaefLVoOyR4o5NrATZ6IEMRubwwe02AQsZu5Wr4BsiIwZRLpfSvjQ0fXe7dsVq_rDHEcsAWlV13qksdmPibZkRU63glLbNox2ahZE5CXeE7QT_9BUnYZMQBuT4RIemTEbL7X2xEeT2cQx8JpsBX5iGCGCT-s0jKom86Wo9TLFecw5R7OP8qjJXK05QSyJJwdI83SWqUNZpeXq2kDgvkzPBdaJj2cbx0DVq5T8UjN7LtCGBQAfS76K4OpxsdXdM86TkMhTuNgCJYE4heZonTr83M6bTGn-9O0lf4iD4UPOZ8rmp1_wbQBv4tXDxTnmvWuM71eLrNT--VMev3aKuDKKRNfpNwsHPh68pn=w800-no)
I can't wait to see more!
Mark,I am so very sorry for your loss. I am very happy to hear you are getting better after the heart breaking experience. I am looking forward to hearing about your car as you progress. You can be assured that you will have support from forum members here.
I'm very sorry to hear your wife passed. At the same time I am glad you posted and are back working on it. We can all relate to life happening.
I look forward to you updating all of us.
Mike C.
Sorry for your loss. I was wondering what happened to this thread, as I enjoyed reading your story & following your progress. Good luck finishing your car and please post updates & pictures as your awesome project reaches completion!
Mark, my condolences also. Looking forward to the seeing the assembly process and final product!
Mark, so sorry for the loss of your wife.
If there is anything I can do as regards the restoration of 5S444 just ask.
Texas Swede
Thanks a million to all of you that have expressed your sympathy for the loss of my wife Tina, and for the support to continue on this Shelby journey. I will attempt to follow the new photo posting instructions to get some old ( and some cool new ) photos on this post to bring everyone up to date. Here goes... Mark
Hmmmm. After all the detailed instructions, that was an epic fail for the transfer of photo from my gallery to the post. I'll keep trying. Mark
Next try. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818141324.jpeg)
Well, that sort of worked, but waaaaay too big. More homework. Mark
Third Attempt at a correctly sized photo from " myimages " section of Gallery to this post. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818141511.jpeg)
Another photo that is waaaay too big. I have read and re-read the posting instructions a dozen times for uploading images. I guess I need a 12 year old that has more e-knowledge to figure this out. One more try today. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818142634.jpeg)
Frustration is mounting, all I want is reasonably sized photos on the post. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818141613.jpeg)
I had not seen those-not sure if they were posted on the old thread.
Those have to be some of the coolest pics of a '65 GT350 I've ever seen.
Most of us dream of such a find!
Mike
OK, here's a sample of the studio type photos we have been taking of some of the parts that have been restored for 444. Since the previous post shows the top of the motor & carb when the car was found, I thought this photo would be appropriate. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818185430.png)
My condolences Mark. Thanks for sharing your life and the rise of #444! Well done mate
Thanks for sharing this bittersweet journey with us. The continuation of the restoration will be very therapeutic for you and of great interest to all of us.
So very sorry to hear of the passing of your wife. I am glad that you are now back working on this amazing car again. I am sure that she would be happy that you are continuing on your journey. Thanks for sharing with us here on the Forums.
Dennis
More photos of when the car was found. Wheels in the dirt, the oil pan & underside,
the Seller named Lee, and loading on the flatbed. We'll see how these photos post. Thanks, Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818214911.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215453.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215200.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215252.jpeg)
OK, so clearly there is some trick to posting photos to Gallery, My Gallery, My images, and then on the post. I have tried every
type of process I'm aware of to fix the oversize photos. I'm going to try one more tonight before I throw my computer out the window. This last photo is when the flatbed got to my house & dropped off the car that night. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215334.jpeg)
Hi Mark,
The easiest way I've found to post pictures (that actually come up as thumbnails that you can click to enlarge) is the following:
- Click on "Attachments and other options" link located just below the text box of your next posting
- Then, click on the "Choose File" button that will now appear
- Select your photo
- You can add (I believe) up to 3 photos per posting (it might be 4, but I can't remember)
- Each time you want to add another photo to the posting, simply click "(more attachments)" located just below the original "Choose File" button, and another "Choose File" button will appear
Hope this works for you!
OK, thanks for the advice on posting better sized photos. Here's my next attempt for the day. This was the dealer installed AM radio that is original to the car at the first sale in November 1965. It has been rebuilt, cleaned and tested by the Radio Doctor in Grants Pass Oregon. He also re-coned the original speaker, and it was bench tested with the radio, and works great. Can't wait to hear some morning talk show or classic rock on AM radio while waiting for my ice cream & butterfinger Blast at Sonic Drive In.
Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-210818192055.png)
Well, that was better. But still room for improvement on photo size. This next photo is the original headers that I took off the car during disassembly. Between the crash damage to the front end of the car by the prior owner that pushed the inner shock tower into the headers, and various welded up cracks, and mother nature trying to recapture the steel, they were pretty rough. Fortunately, Jim Cowles makes a terrific reproduction set of headers, and they will be on the car when it is up & running. More photos to follow. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-210818192312.png)
Quote from: doublemyv on August 21, 2018, 07:38:43 PM
Can't wait to hear some morning talk show or classic rock on AM radio while waiting for my ice cream & butterfinger Blast at Sonic Drive In.
Good luck hearing the radio with side exit exhaust ;D ;D
Try converting your images to .jpg and then use an image editor to size them down. Otherwise, attaching the image to your post should put a thumbnail, which can be clicked for larger size.
Ok, this is the umpteenth try with a new process. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-210818192142.png)
Well, we may have success thanks to Bossbill's post about adding the width=500 after editing the BB line after "img". You just saw the outside of the restored original Shelby Cragar, now the inside for your viewing pleasure. I thought we should show some photos of things that you wouldn't normally see once they are on the car and the restoration is complete. This example of photo editing adds the formula: img width=768 to the BB photo line. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-210818192230.png)
OK, a few more that previously were too large. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818141324.jpeg)
Another original photo when the car was found in 2010. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818141511.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818142506.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818142857.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818141613.jpeg)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818143007.jpeg)
The underside was a little rough after sitting in the dirt for 36 years. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818143310.jpeg)
The Shelby VIN plate didn't fare so well baking in the SoCal sun without a hood ( see backstory for details ) but was still there. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-160818143431.jpeg)
The Keystone mags hadn't rolled an inch in decades. Needless to say, they were not going to be a part of the restoration. Thus began a 3 year search for 5 original Cragar Shelby wheels that eventually were bought from 3 different sellers around the country. Craig Conley at Paradise Wheels did an amazing job restoring the Cragars ( see previous photos ) that will be on the car when it is driven in anger. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818214911.jpeg)
This is a photo of the seller Lee just before we loaded the car on a flatbed tow truck for it's ride to my home. I still see him every few weeks around town, and he's been to the house many times to advise/help on the restoration and actually found in his parts collection at his home the original alternator that was on the car in the late 60's that has now been restored. Great Guy. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215200.jpeg)
After installing 4 wheels from two different motorcycle trailers with Ford hubs, the car was loaded on the tow truck for it's ride to my home. One of Lee's pals is watching the car leave it's resting place. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215252.jpeg)
Finally, at my home. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818215334.jpeg)
Quote from: doublemyv on August 23, 2018, 05:28:33 PM
The Keystone mags hadn't rolled an inch in decades. Needless to say, they were not going to be a part of the restoration. Thus began a 3 year search for 5 original Cragar Shelby wheels that eventually were bought from 3 different sellers around the country. Craig Conley at Paradise Wheels did an amazing job restoring the Cragars ( see previous photos ) that will be on the car when it is driven in anger. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-190818214911.jpeg)
Mark, did Craig restore the original rims or did he replace them with the DOT approved equivalent?
The five original rims that were purchased for this restoration all had terrible chrome steel rims, but good centers. All five got new chrome rims welded to the steel links at the bottom of the five aluminum spokes on each wheel, and you can see the new welds on the photo showing the back of the wheel. The new chrome rims are stamped with a date, DOT number and some other codes. We felt that this was the best solution for 444 to have original rims that are safe to drive aggressively when the car is complete. Mark
This is an overall shot of the backside of the restored Cragar Shelby wheel. I can get a photo of the DOT stamping if need be. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-240818121657.png)
More Tri Y header photos from 444 when removed in 2010 to start the restoration. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-240818123649.png)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-240818123734.png)
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-240818123808.png)
Finally today, a close up of the grain on the vinyl spare tire cover. This is a reproduction made by a SAAC Forum member that I bought a couple of years ago, and fits the reproduction Blue dot tire on the spare Cragar Shelby rim perfectly. It has the heavy grained vinyl, and the smaller diameter welting. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-240818121808.png)
Quote from: doublemyv on August 24, 2018, 12:21:05 PM
This is an overall shot of the backside of the restored Cragar Shelby wheel. I can get a photo of the DOT stamping if need be. Mark
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/374-240818121657.png)
Yes you will for sure be confident running hard on them. I didn't think he would restore them with original rims is why I asked. I was hoping to find that he did. I hope you didn't have to pay much for the cores. Unfortunately they look no different now then the repros Craig makes. The centers he makes are almost indistinguishable from originals. Many (but not all)wheel restorers decline to use non DOT (restored or not) wheel rims for liability reasons. Craig will not re rivet centers into rims (for the 67-70 Shelby) wheels that need them ether for the same reasons. I understand protecting your behind. I found a set of repros on a DIV 1,Throughbred,Diamond class entry and the entrant was very bothered that I discovered the difference. They are very close.
Thanks Bob, the depth of your Shelby knowledge never ceases to amaze me. You are right on the money about the DOT rim portion, and I'm ok with the new hoops on the old centers. The total cost to buy the rims, get them restored, and complete with caps & lugs is just over $ 1000 per rim. I felt the sting on the cost, but I felt that the car's provenance and historical value was worth the effort to keep the car as original as possible, and using all original OEM/Shelby, or NOS, or restored used originals was the way to go. By the way, I missed meeting you in person in Sonoma, and look forward to shaking hands someday. Mark
Quote from: doublemyv on August 24, 2018, 04:32:36 PM
Thanks Bob, the depth of your Shelby knowledge never ceases to amaze me. You are right on the money about the DOT rim portion, and I'm ok with the new hoops on the old centers. The total cost to buy the rims, get them restored, and complete with caps & lugs is just over $ 1000 per rim. I felt the sting on the cost, but I felt that the car's provenance and historical value was worth the effort to keep the car as original as possible, and using all original OEM/Shelby, or NOS, or restored used originals was the way to go. By the way, I missed meeting you in person in Sonoma, and look forward to shaking hands someday. Mark
Mark, It would have been really cool to meet you in person. You can count on myself and others here to help you through the resto. I would rather you ask a question no matter how dumb or trivial it may seem rather then for you not to ask and get it wrong given the historical direction you are going with the restoration. Plus If we can help you to not spend money unnecessarily (doing stuff over) that is all the better. That car deserves to be done well.
Mark, good to see its coming along. Well worth the wait.
Mark;
thanks for posting your restoration pictures and keeping us arm chair restorers wanting more.
And those header pictures are fantastic ;D haha
Sometimes, you have a lucky day. Yesterday 9/25/18 Jerry Heasley called me. You may remember Jerry's articles in various car magazines including Mustang Monthly on his Rare Finds topic. Anyway, Jerry asked how my restoration was proceeding, and I brought him up to speed about the delays over the last couple of years, and that the restoration process was restarting. He mentioned that he has been doing some short videos of interesting cars on his www.youtube.com channel, and wondered if car # SFM5s444 would make a good candidate for a new video. Well, our conversation went well, and the end result is now posted on youtube under link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-LAXoTqNV0 This is a compilation of the original photos when the car was found, and Jerry tells the background story through the video, and does a great job describing the find. Check it out. Mark
Thanks for posting the link. Great story, great pictures, great car.
Steve
Nice video mate, thanks for sharing
Cheers
Keep the documentation coming!
Awesome! 8)
saw the video posted on FB today. Realized it was THAT car. What a cool story. Glad it was saved. And its in Good hands!!
Can I come over and help put that full size Revell model together?
Like Victor Frankenstein breathing life into the sleeping monster. I love it!
Sorry for your loss.
Best,
Richard E.
Mark you are doing a SUPER job on "everything" the car is wonderful the documentation since Teenager years and stuff is GREAT... LOVE IT... Thanks so much for sharing.. and keep it up. Thanks for answering my email:) :) :) :) :) :)
I noticed you have a 1966 instrument cluster installed in #444. When did that happen?
Someone left the keys in the wayback machine again...
At least the OP is still around and posting about the car:
https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=29981.0#msg216746
Roy
Hi Guys, I'm still here, and have asked that the posts and photos from the Concours Talk page be moved over to this 65 GT 350 discussion.
As of 12/21/25, there has been more progress. I will post some updated photos when the images and discussion from the Concours page moves here.
In the meantime, I have spent weeks cleaning, prepping dozens of parts for the interior trim, wheelhouse covers, traction bar covers, rear tray, and more that are now all painted and hanging from the ceiling all over my shop. The last few days ( between Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday parties ) have seen the original firewall pad installed, and the wiring harnesses hanging from the ceiling to relax the coils. I'm hoping to get the headliner installed in the next couple of weeks, then wiring, and while those items are idle, I have been prepping the steering column with a new blinker switch assembly and wiring. I just received a Christmas card today from the original owner Ed Henken, and he is anxious to see and drive the finished car. More to come. Merry Christmas, Mark
In response to Hertzz350 question about the '66 instrument cluster, it was hacked into place by the previous owner when he was a teenager, because he wanted the round gauges instead of the indicator lights in the '65 cluster. When we had the car at the body shop, it became obvious that the instrument cluster opening was hammered by a sledge hammer to pound the bottom edge down and in to make the '66 dash cluster fit. Wow, what a huge amount of handwork by a master metal worker with special tools, experience, and hammer & dolly to restore that instrument cluster opening back to '65 standards. We also had to fill in the 6 extra holes in the dash that held switches for: light inside the ashtray, turning off the rear running & brake lights, underhood light, trunk light, 8 track stereo equalizer, and woofer speaker.
As you can tell, the prior owner liked music loud, and no taillights for the cops to see when the Shelby is disappearing into the distance. More to come. Mark
Quote from: doublemyv on December 23, 2025, 05:07:20 PMIn response to Hertzz350 question about the '66 instrument cluster, it was hacked into place by the previous owner when he was a teenager, because he wanted the round gauges instead of the indicator lights in the '65 cluster. When we had the car at the body shop, it became obvious that the instrument cluster opening was hammered by a sledge hammer to pound the bottom edge down and in to make the '66 dash cluster fit. Wow, what a huge amount of handwork by a master metal worker with special tools, experience, and hammer & dolly to restore that instrument cluster opening back to '65 standards. We also had to fill in the 6 extra holes in the dash that held switches for: light inside the ashtray, turning off the rear running & brake lights, underhood light, trunk light, 8 track stereo equalizer, and woofer speaker.
As you can tell, the prior owner liked music loud, and no taillights for the cops to see when the Shelby is disappearing into the distance. More to come. Mark
Great info, it adds to the character and history of the vehicle.
Thanks for all the updates, keeps the forum interesting.
Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas !
Are you working toward a particular show for a debut?
Glad to see this thread is being picked back up with updates! Lots of great info.
Merry Christmas everyone, Thanks for the kind words about the updates to my posts. In answer to the question by GJZ30075, my goal was SAAC in Sonoma in 2018. Obviously, I missed that goal, and many others due to life events that included selling my business and retiring, getting remarried, saying goodbye to my dad, and remodeling the house for two years. So here we are in 2025, and momentum on the restoration has picked waaaayyy up. I will post some photos of what I have been working on ( there are hundreds of photos, and I can't post them all ) so you can see some highlights. Enjoy. Mark
More photos of 5S444 restoration. Dec. 24, 2025
Another 4 photos of 5S444 posted 12/24/25. Mark
Finally, the last couple of photos showing what we did a couple of days ago, installing the firewall pad, and even a flashback to where I started 15 years ago. More to come later in the build. Mark
Keep up the good work, best wishes!
Merry Christmas to all of you in Shelby ForumLand... I have been busy with family, grandkids, and a few Christmas parties. I'll get back on the resto shortly, but here's a few photos of the painted pinchweld you haven't seen yet. Mark
Mark,
Thank you for sharing these pictures. I'm happy that you are making progress. It's fun to see things coming together.
I have a question, was that coat hook originally installed in that position? That is very unusual.
It is interesting to note that I have seen many cars without the hole/provision for the coat hooks. These cars are usually seen without coat hooks at all. These cars are usually built around the time of your car.
Perhaps there was no provision for the coat hooks on your particular car, so they just installed them at the location you show?
Hi Brant, It's great to hear from you since the sale of VCM to Kentucky Mustang. I miss you and your VCM business, and I won't ask you to come out of retirement, as it is well earned, and you should enjoy every second. Thanks for the encouragement and advice over the years, and yes, the momentum is picking up. When I acquired the car in late 2010, the coat hooks were on each side of the rear window, as shown in the one photo. None of the prior owners were businessmen with dry cleaning needs, so I always assumed they were a factory installed hook. Weird huh ? I am reinstalling them since that's the way I found the car, and might have a need to hang something on them in the future.
Thanks again for keeping in touch, and we'll talk soon, Mark
Good Morning, I have a question about the front brake caliper bolts on 5s444. In the photo it shows ( from Left to Right ) the drilled head bolts, old notch head bolts, and new notch head bolts. Since I don't remember that SAI did any safety wiring on the street model GT 350s, I think the notch head bolts are correct for assembly line builds. Does anyone have any info on the correct bolts ? Thanks, Mark
Quote from: doublemyv on December 28, 2025, 11:30:54 AMGood Morning, I have a question about the front brake caliper bolts on 5s444. In the photo it shows ( from Left to Right ) the drilled head bolts, old notch head bolts, and new notch head bolts. Since I don't remember that SAI did any safety wiring on the street model GT 350s, I think the notch head bolts are correct for assembly line builds. Does anyone have any info on the correct bolts ? Thanks, Mark
The ones without the holes are correct for your car.
You will find the ones with holes for safety wire on '67s. Honestly, it's a great idea.
I have seen them back out on '65-66 cars. I try to remember to check mine at every oil change.
Quote from: Brant on December 28, 2025, 12:18:35 PMQuote from: doublemyv on December 28, 2025, 11:30:54 AMGood Morning, I have a question about the front brake caliper bolts on 5s444. In the photo it shows ( from Left to Right ) the drilled head bolts, old notch head bolts, and new notch head bolts. Since I don't remember that SAI did any safety wiring on the street model GT 350s, I think the notch head bolts are correct for assembly line builds. Does anyone have any info on the correct bolts ? Thanks, Mark
The ones without the holes are correct for your car.
You will find the ones with holes for safety wire on '67s. Honestly, it's a great idea.
I have seen them back out on '65-66 cars. I try to remember to check mine at every oil change.
I put the red locktite on the threads of mine.
Agree that the coat hooks were likely added out of need rather than something done at the plant at that time. Really interesting location. We looked into the subject of 65 San Jose fastbacks without coat hooks (wasn't a Shelby things) and came up with the following
65 SJ Running Change Thread - Fastback Coat Hooks (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=23136.new#new)
Hi to Mark and all,
Simple story....was lucky to have good teachers and to quote my dad as one."Always read the shop manual." To quote another from high school "Every thread gets treated with something after it is cleaned and inspected.", Such as: oil-assembly lube-teflon-antisieze-thread locking compound-thread sealer. (His only dry assembly was wheel studs.) That being said. Section 2-41 of the 1965 shop manual gives torque specs as follows:caliper to mounting bracket 45-60 ft lbs
Mounting bracket to spindle 35-45 ft lbs
In the assembly section it says use loctite, and verify a firm brake pedal before moving the car.Many new fasteners are treated and it is a visible color. Loctite has many grades and RED is typical for brake calipers. Car looks extremely nice and should be awesome to see completed!!
R.R.
This forum is truly a blessing. Thanks to all the wisemen, and the link to the old post on Fastback Coat Hooks. It looks like I have the extra sheetmetal for the coat hooks, as # 444 was a mid May build. The hooks were found above the vents when I got the car, and although that seemed like an odd location, I didn't know any better. Now I do. I will put the coat hooks on the correct sheetmetal tab as shown in the pictures below during final interior assembly.
Mark
Quote from: doublemyv on December 28, 2025, 05:29:21 PMThis forum is truly a blessing. Thanks to all the wisemen, and the link to the old post on Fastback Coat Hooks. It looks like I have the extra sheetmetal for the coat hooks, as # 444 was a mid May build. The hooks were found above the vents when I got the car, and although that seemed like an odd location, I didn't know any better. Now I do. I will put the coat hooks on the correct sheetmetal tab as shown in the pictures below during final interior assembly.
Mark
Mark,
Can you determine (you probably can) if those holes show previous evidence of having a screw installed in them?
Funny you should ask, as my afternoon crawling around the interior of # 444 has determined that neither hole has been used in the past. In fact, there's a second sheet metal edge behind and below the welded on plates, and my attempt to pre-mount the hooks found that the driver side trim screw created new threads in order to mount the hook, and the passenger side hole was 3/4 blocked by the sheet metal edge behind the coat hook bracket and required drilling of the second layer to get the hook screw installed. See photo of the screw and my masking tape with measurements to find the hole once the headliner is installed. I'm wondering if the transition from No coat hooks to Yes coat hooks in mid May 1965 created some variances of where the line worker put the hooks ? Could it be that # 444 being built in Mid May got the hooks above the vents ? Mark
Truly interesting finding coat hooks on a fastback
Never seen that before
Quote from: doublemyv on December 28, 2025, 08:23:17 PMFunny you should ask, as my afternoon crawling around the interior of # 444 has determined that neither hole has been used in the past. In fact, there's a second sheet metal edge behind and below the welded on plates, and my attempt to pre-mount the hooks found that the driver side trim screw created new threads in order to mount the hook, and the passenger side hole was 3/4 blocked by the sheet metal edge behind the coat hook bracket and required drilling of the second layer to get the hook screw installed. See photo of the screw and my masking tape with measurements to find the hole once the headliner is installed. I'm wondering if the transition from No coat hooks to Yes coat hooks in mid May 1965 created some variances of where the line worker put the hooks ? Could it be that # 444 being built in Mid May got the hooks above the vents ? Mark
Mark,
If those holes never had a screw, I personally would not install them.
I can dig into my pictures a bit more, and let you know which cars I have seen with and without coat hooks around this build period.
I know that I have done some research on this, but I have to re-visit it.
Quote from: doublemyv on December 28, 2025, 08:23:17 PM.......... I'm wondering if the transition from No coat hooks to Yes coat hooks in mid May 1965 created some variances of where the line worker put the hooks ? Could it be that # 444 being built in Mid May got the hooks above the vents ? Mark
Interesting that your car fits in that possible window of May since that was our "grey" period in our earlier survey. Of course grey areas between changes is the nor since we don't have exact records of when these cars were built like we do for later years. Would not be unusual IMO to possibly have a few cars built where on one shift someone in a later station did not remember a change had taken place (guy that was suppose to install the hooks) and one at an earlier station installing the extra brackets. Of course this would be hard to prove unless this took place over a whole shift or the majority of it. Of course non-Shelbys help out a lot here since they are many more of them to use as examples of the periods production practices.
Think at this point your findings at this point does support that your specific car didn't get coat hooks. Good thing you checked this detail before installing the headliner. Since we did that last survey 5 years ago I don't recall seeing any reports or pictures of another 65 San Jose built fastback with the coat hooks where your car had them when you got it. There may be some additional examples of no or with coat hooks I could add to the collection
I would not use any at this point, to try and support the idea of the hooks being installed over the rear vents without finding more unrestored examples of Mustangs with that at this point. Nice thing is that you can leave those off and if you find supporting evidence of that being the practice they can be added later. Have dealt with a fair number of cars with oddities and they always, well most of the time, take time to discuss, investigate and to make that choice especially on Shelbys since they were so often changed and modified once they were delivered to the first owner
Sorry for being so wordy
Many thanks to Brant and Jeff for their own research and expert guidance on the forum once again. I agree that since the metal coat hook brackets presented with no evidence of coat hooks ever being installed, I will leave the coat hooks off the car. The fact that the driver side screw hole was unthreaded, and the passenger side bracket had the screw hole mostly blocked by a second layer of sheetmetal behind it that needed drilling to accept a mounting screw is definitive evidence that the car did not come with coat hooks when new. If Jeff comes up with a survey in the future showing enough non-Shelby mustang fastbacks that had coat hooks over the vents, I would certainly consider re-installing my coat hooks. Until then, I think this mystery has been solved. Thanks all, Mark
hey doods,
Just jumping in here as I just noticed discussion on the coat hooks. I am currently cleaning up 5S345 which is an unrestored car. The car has its original interior from carpet to headliner, melted gauge pod and everything in between. Headliner is about as mint as they come... no coat hooks. Also no evidence that I can see of a hook being installed on the passenger inner interior vent trim. If there was a hook there, I would assume there would be some sort of witness mark on the original paint showing something pressed into it there.
I will look closer at the inner vent trim today and can take a much nicer pic of the headliner (surprised that this is the only image on my phone currently of that area)
While 345 and 444 feel like a long ways from one another in terms of Shelby number, the Ford numbers are probably right next to each other. Happy to share mine with you, Mark, if you'd like to confirm.
Love the progress Mark, keep it up!
Kind regards,
Vern
You guys have me going down a rabbit hole now on coat hooks ;D
5S332, this car has sat idle (until recently)... maintaining its original interior and a very nice headliner. No hooks.
332 and 345's Ford numbers are extremely close to one another.
I also looked back at pictures of 5S335. It has hooks but it's Ford VIN is quite a bit earlier than 332 and 345.
5S541 was original paint and had a sweet original interior before it unfortunately got restored. I don't know the exact Ford VIN number of this car but I have a block picture where I can read everything up to the 4th sequential digit which tells me that it is very close to 345 and 332.
Vern you are a trouble maker dude . :)
443, another car very close on Ford VIN to 345, 332, 541.. had been painted but a largeley unrestored car which retained a beautiful unrestored interior. No hooks.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on December 31, 2025, 12:23:53 PMVern you are a trouble maker dude . :)
I'm just over here helping Mark document his car as being of the highest echelon of 65 GT350 collectability.
Some of us have always known that these late "coat hanger delete" examples are the ones to have... it's now time to inform the unwashed masses ;D
My understanding is that Ken Miles himself phoned the San Jose line and in his thick English accent said "delete them coat hangers out of the interiors... nobody drives these damn things in the snow or rain and we need those extra grams on the track".
Some people probably couldn't square with how hardcore these stripped out, hyper special examples were and the hangers were eventually placed back where they belonged.
At least that's the way I heard it.
Vern
Quote from: Vernon Estes on December 31, 2025, 12:35:31 PMMy understanding is that Ken Miles himself phoned the San Jose line and in his thick English accent said "delete them coat hangers out of the interiors... nobody drives these damn things in the snow or rain and we need those extra grams on the track".
LOL ::) - you know that we're going to see that quoted in some way on the internet in the future. ;D
541 had no coat hooks when I owned it in 2019 as unrestored....
closer up pics of the headliner areas in 345.
Sorry to hijack the thread Mark but I think you now have ample justification for your missing hooks LOL
Thanks for all the help ( and sense of humor ) Vern. I love the fact that the members like me can learn from the experts on this forum, and have fun with this hobby and not take it too seriously. Mark
The process continues, and it's on to the wiring for # 444. I am still waiting for the upholstery shop schedule to get the headliner installed, so instead of installing all the interior trim pieces after the headliner install, I am pivoting to the wiring. Whew... I bought the complete harness from Pete Disher several years ago, and have laid out all the harness and sub-harnesses on the shop floor next to the original harnesses for comparison. It's all pretty darn good. Not exact as far as wire colors everywhere, but very close so far. I am detailing and installing everything I can find onto the new harnesses while on the bench to make sure it all goes together before having to do it under the dash when my mature body is folded up like a contortionist. Here's a few photos of what it looks like so far. Mark
Quote from: doublemyv on January 10, 2026, 02:06:35 PMI am still waiting for the upholstery shop schedule to get the headliner installed, so instead of installing all the interior trim pieces after the headliner install
Let us know how that goes, as its pretty involved with the taking out of both front
and rear glass
Thanks
Just a follow up on the headliner issue. The car has had all the glass removed prior to bodywork and paint some time ago, and never reinstalled. I knew that the headliner install was done with the glass out, so that's how I have left it so far. Mark
Really enjoying following the restoration. Just a data point 5S426 was received 5/17/65 according to the registry and has an unrestored interior with coat hooks.IMG_1108.jpg
Mark, I am sorry for you loss.
As some of you read the history of 5s444, it warms my heart that the compassion from the forum members comes to the surface. After all, this hobby is as much about the people that are the caretakers of these vehicles, as the vehicles themselves. I appreciate all the input, and look forward to the day when # 444 is on the road again. Mark