Sometimes the enemy of good is better! When I refurbished the original A-arms/control arms, their ball joints, and their grease fittings, I was careful to mark which side of the car each component came from. Now, I see that the car is sitting half an inch higher on one side than the other. I doubt that I switched springs, but I guess it's possible. Before I tear into this and swap the springs around, any suggestions? And yes, the tire pressure is equal on all sides. Thank you, steve
Did you let the suspension fully settle before tightening the bolts for the front end?
Roy
Lower on the left side ? Lift the rear side of the lower side and recheck front height, problem maybe caused by rear spring sagging .
Thanks guys! I did not do the work myself, although it was done at my house, by professional mechanic. I will check with him. I will also put a jack under the lower side which I believe is the left, but I will check this morning. Thanks again steve.
I wasn't following this thread so if this was said already, I apologize.
You won't see the actual ride height of the car until you put some mileage on it.
Sometimes just going around the block a couple of times will do it but suspensions need to settle into their ride heights.
When you disassemble the suspensions completely and just reassemble them, they won't be at the actual final ride heights.
You won't have to twist my arm too hard to get me to take it out and drive a little bit. Especially with the good weather we're having here in Houston. Thanks and I will report back steve
When you are running out of gas and need to come home, try to get the camber set at -1/2°. Toe in, which is always just an "approximation", so no need to use a digital computer to set it to within .001", set at 3/16" total.
Positive caster is better the more that you can get but I think about 1-1/2°+ is all you will be able to get without the tires hitting the front fender lips when turning.
You can get up to about 2-1/2°+ but the tires will definitely hook on the fender opening moldings.
With power steering you can live with only the 1-1/2° but the car probably will start to wonder at around 130mph. Considering you will also start to get lift there, that is probably the practical top cruising speed you should consider?
The '65 R models dialed in as much castor as they could get but the fender lips were already trimmed back. It gets tough to steer with no PS with 2-1/2° and more. It only wants to go straight, so with those cars you can't be afraid to steer with the gas pedal as well. ::)
I drove the car about 30 miles this morning, and it didn't change the ride height whatsoever.Then, using a floor jack, I gently raised the low side of the car on the rear frame. It took about three or four soft partial pumps to get both rear wheel wells to measure equally. With that done, both front wheel wells were now equal.?? Coincidental weak rear spring? I want to be sure my methodology is correct and if so, do you rebuild these or replace them or? thanx steve
I told you so ;) It was probably leaning when you bought just didn't notice it. Why is it always the left side?
Quote from: Steve Meltzer on April 30, 2024, 06:28:37 PMI drove the car about 30 miles this morning, and it didn't change the ride height whatsoever.Then, using a floor jack, I gently raised the low side of the car on the rear frame. It took about three or four soft partial pumps to get both rear wheel wells to measure equally. With that done, both front wheel wells were now equal.?? Coincidental weak rear spring? I want to be sure my methodology is correct and if so, do you rebuild these or replace them or? thanx steve
I would suggest replacing them with a type that is made the same . I use ones sourced from Virginia Mustang and then take the assemblyline metal stamped bottom plate and transfer it to the replacement set. Of course this a short answer and there is more involved such as as matching the patina of each, metal straps as there are different types etc.
Since it's leaning to the left side, I suspect it's political in origin. Here's my next question: immediately after refurbishing the control arms and ball joints, I had the car aligned by a pro. He never said anything about the car's ride height, one way or the other. Is it possible to correctly align a car, if the rear springs are mild-moderately defective? I would think not, but I don't know. What is your best advice? Thanks, Steve.
Quote from: Steve Meltzer on April 30, 2024, 09:47:22 PMSince it's leaning to the left side, I suspect it's political in origin.
I never thought of it that way but but it could be true ??? Yes it is possible to perform a good alignment with that much ride height difference ( did the pro give you print out of the results? not that makes too much difference because it can be manipulated ) 2 options === Replace the springs or leave it alone. I do think that most manufacturers would consider that as acceptable.
The rear springs can be re-arched to make them equal.
Personally, I have my '68 since 1972. I have the original rear springs in the car.
I always found them to be inadequate. They would bottom out too easily and in the days when it was my everyday car, putting anyone brave enough to venture to sit in the back seat, the car would ride on the bump stops.
The original rear springs are described by Ford as "competition springs". The natural pose the car would take was to have the nose up because of the arch of the rear springs.
At some point I experimented with solutions and the one that is still installed in the car is what many of the R models used, i.e., they installed an extra long leaf in the rear, taking off the clamps.
It does disable the "ass down" stance and makes the car look level. It ends the bottoming out. It does not make the ride harsh. In fact it softens the ride.
The other thing that works well with this solution is switching to Cure Ride rear shocks.
If you do your research you will at some point come across the fact that SA did a project with Cure ride and that rear shock valving was a result of it.
Of course none of this is Concourse correct but neither are radial tires so at some point you need to make a decision on which way to go? Either it can look original or you can make the car a lot more enjoyable to drive?
I will have to cogitate on this a bit to decide what I wanna do. Is it possible that this condition could arise from one of the accessory components in the rear suspension besides the springs themselves, like a bushing or such? Thanks again, Steve.
What is the guy that does all the work on the car say ???? You can install longer shackles on LR spring just like in old days ;)
Quote from: Steve Meltzer on May 01, 2024, 12:37:40 PMI will have to cogitate on this a bit to decide what I wanna do. Is it possible that this condition could arise from one of the accessory components in the rear suspension besides the springs themselves, like a bushing or such? Thanks again, Steve.
More likely the spring steel is just loosing it's temper on the one side.
I've seen this happen on the station wagons more then the Mustangs but they also will break either near the front eye-bolt or right under the axle from fatigue.
If you change out the springs, save the small bottom leafs with the date codes and engineering numbers on them and reuse them.
I've measured this distance more times than I care to admit. It remains at a difference of three-quarter inches higher on the right. The car pulls a bit to the left when I brake, most of the time. I suspect that this is a problem unrelated to the ride height. Correct? Are the longer shackles readily available? Hard to replace for a pro? Are the ones that are available, original in their appearance? Thanks again, Steve.
I am tempted to leave things as they are, as the car does not get driven all that hard. Sometimes." the enemy of good is better". s
Quote from: Steve Meltzer on May 05, 2024, 12:58:26 PMI've measured this distance more times than I care to admit. It remains at a difference of three-quarter inches higher on the right. The car pulls a bit to the left when I brake, most of the time. I suspect that this is a problem unrelated to the ride height. Correct? Are the longer shackles readily available? Hard to replace for a pro? Are the ones that are available, original in their appearance? Thanks again, Steve.
I think the 3/4 of a inch difference is going to bug you more then the vast majority.I understand you wanting to strive for perfection. I however don't think that the ride height difference in this case is directly proportional to how much you car pulls to the left. Forget the shackle scenario because there is not anything readily available that looks stock or is practical to get the all the results you expect. I would dare say that a 3/4 of a inch longer shackle on one side even if made to look like a original would be much more noticeable if looking under the car and comparing the left and right.It will take some spring substitution in the back or re arching IMO. I think the re arching will be the more costly ,more time consuming and more need of someone experienced to oversee the total process so as to the end results you want. That is when you consider all of what you will have to do to make the leaf spring look concours correct as is your concern. At least compared to a concours prepare replacement as I previously mentioned. Less time and stress I think but the costs will still be significant non the less. There is no easy button or 1 800 number direct replacement here. Just my opinion meant to be helpful.
Quote from: Steve Meltzer on April 29, 2024, 08:48:18 AMThanks guys! I did not do the work myself, although it was done at my house, by professional mechanic. I will check with him. I will also put a jack under the lower side which I believe is the left, but I will check this morning. Thanks again steve.
I don't think a side matters that they are installed on. I took my original suspension off of my 68 and detailed it out 16 years ago. I installed springs from a 302 68 coupe(GT350 car). The height on the front was level. Ditto for many cars I did a full resto on including my 70 GT350 vert. Good luck on this.
thanx and I'lll keep you posted. I'd really like to drive the car so I may do so and then revisit this issue when I run out of things to do. Steve.
I'm getting confused. You start out talking about the front end being off and then you start talking about the rear end so I don't know what you are trying to fix. Please clarify. Maybe I'm just getting to old 😕
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on May 06, 2024, 11:25:20 PMI'm getting confused. You start out talking about the front end being off and then you start talking about the rear end so I don't know what you are trying to fix. Please clarify. Maybe I'm just getting to old 😕
Roy
re read post #7
I'll refer back to my post number 1 which was never answered. He should load the front suspension and even add a hundred pounds and loosen all the bolts bounce it up and down a little, then tighten all the bolts and go from there. No cost, just an hour or two of time.
Roy
Roy, It is clear to me that I did not answer your first question as well as I might have. I'm sort of trapped in the middle here, as I asked the mechanic who did the work if he did what you said, and he said that it wasn't necessary or something to the effect that that sort of preloading did not apply to this situation. Not being an engineer, nor mechanic, I'm really unsure a bout what to do to test your theory. Thank you for your interest and again, sorry I did not answer better, earlier. Steve
If one side is tightened with load on it and one side doesn't have load on it then it is possible to have some difference. How much I don't know. Here's some info from MOOG:
https://www.moogparts.com/en-gb/blog/tighten-bushing-bolt-on-vehicle-sub-frame.html
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on May 07, 2024, 08:43:10 PMIf one side is tightened with load on it and one side doesn't have load on it then it is possible to have some difference. How much I don't know. Here's some info from MOOG:
https://www.moogparts.com/en-gb/blog/tighten-bushing-bolt-on-vehicle-sub-frame.html
Roy
If the upper control arm and coil spring were installed with the support brace as per the shop manual then the front suspension would not be hanging as referenced in the link. In the case of the brace the suspension for all practical purposes would be preloaded. Hanging front suspense is bad news for many reasons as has been talked about in previous threads.