I am helping to install a 1966 package tray in a 1965 fastback. I noticed in the current Shelby American Annual a few pictures of the wood reinforcing. I have a few questions:
1. How far back from the front is the lateral wooden support and how is it attached?
2. Is the self screwed only along the top or the lower trim panel, and is it screwed into the front edge of the lower trim panel as well?
Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Greek
There are two types that you can use.
The '65 type with the spare tire projecting through the trap door opening or the 66 type that does not affect the trap door.
I have used both. The '66 repro fiberglass panel needs no reinforcement. The '65 panel is reinforced within a few inches of the end projecting into the trunk. I think it is there to reinforce the panel for the spare tire? I haven't used that one in a while.
The better panel is the fiberglass reproduction of the '66 panel since it is already reinforced with integral ribs.
The original '66 panel was molded plastic. Someone attempted to document the actual number installed by SA and they thought maybe around 100?
The problem with it is that it turns into "silly putty" from direct summer sun light or heat and flops around like a fish out of water. BY FAR the better piece is the fiberglass reproduction that people like Branda sell.
The '65 panel may look cool to you but it is an SOB to get the tire in there. It needs to be bolted to the "floor" which in that case is the top of the shock tower structure.
If you are going to put the car on any track with a Tech they are usually going to MAKE you remove it even if it is bolted in. That isn't easy and in the warm weather you will roast back there trying to do it.
It is also very slick, as in slippery with anything on it. Even water and because of that it really is useless as a package tray. The '66 has a lip built into it and can be used as a package tray with some basic precautions.
The wood on the '65 is just a piece of 1x2 glued with an adhesive similar to what we call Construction Adhesive now. It actually gets in the way when you are trying to install the panel.
I remember getting frustrated with it during installation. I removed it and reinstalled it after it was in.
An added benefit to these trays is that you are removing about 85 pounds of rear seat and folding platforms from the car. That is close to the single largest item you can remove to get the car weight down. The next would be going to plexiglass windows.
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 13, 2023, 12:42:14 PM
There are two types that you can use.
The '65 type with the spare tire projecting through the trap door opening or the 66 type that does not affect the trap door.
I have used both. The '66 repro fiberglass panel needs no reinforcement. The '65 panel is reinforced within a few inches of the end projecting into the trunk. I think it is there to reinforce the panel for the spare tire? I haven't used that one in a while.
The better panel is the fiberglass reproduction of the '66 panel since it is already reinforced with integral ribs.
The original '66 panel was molded plastic. Someone attempted to document the actual number installed by SOA and they thought maybe around 100.
The problem with it is that it turns into "silly putty" from direct summer sun light or heat and flops around like a fish out of water. BY FAR the better piece is the fiberglass reproduction that people like Branda sell.
The '65 panel may look cool to you but it is an SOB to get the tire in there. It needs to be bolted to the "floor" which in that case is the top of the shock tower structure.
If you are going to put the car on any track with a Tech they are usually going to MAKE you remove it even if it is bolted in. That isn't easy and in the warm weather you will roast back there trying to do it.
It is also very slick, as in slippery with anything on it. Even water and because of that it really is useless as a package tray. The '66 has a lip built into it and can be used as a package tray with some basic precautions.
The wood on the '65 is just a piece of 1x2 glued with an adhesive similar to what we call Construction Adhesive now. It actually gets in the way when you are trying to install the panel.
I remember getting frustrated with it during installation. I removed it and reinstalled it after it was in.
An added benefit to these trays is that you are removing about 85 pounds of rear seat and folding platforms from the car. That is close to the single largest item you can remove to get the car weight down. The next would be going to plexiglass windows.
Thanks for the information. It is the 1966 style tray so there will be no hassle with the spare.
Quote from: greekz on December 13, 2023, 12:46:38 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 13, 2023, 12:42:14 PM
There are two types that you can use.
The '65 type with the spare tire projecting through the trap door opening or the 66 type that does not affect the trap door.
I have used both. The '66 repro fiberglass panel needs no reinforcement. The '65 panel is reinforced within a few inches of the end projecting into the trunk. I think it is there to reinforce the panel for the spare tire? I haven't used that one in a while.
The better panel is the fiberglass reproduction of the '66 panel since it is already reinforced with integral ribs.
The original '66 panel was molded plastic. Someone attempted to document the actual number installed by SOA and they thought maybe around 100.
The problem with it is that it turns into "silly putty" from direct summer sun light or heat and flops around like a fish out of water. BY FAR the better piece is the fiberglass reproduction that people like Branda sell.
The '65 panel may look cool to you but it is an SOB to get the tire in there. It needs to be bolted to the "floor" which in that case is the top of the shock tower structure.
If you are going to put the car on any track with a Tech they are usually going to MAKE you remove it even if it is bolted in. That isn't easy and in the warm weather you will roast back there trying to do it.
It is also very slick, as in slippery with anything on it. Even water and because of that it really is useless as a package tray. The '66 has a lip built into it and can be used as a package tray with some basic precautions.
The wood on the '65 is just a piece of 1x2 glued with an adhesive similar to what we call Construction Adhesive now. It actually gets in the way when you are trying to install the panel.
I remember getting frustrated with it during installation. I removed it and reinstalled it after it was in.
An added benefit to these trays is that you are removing about 85 pounds of rear seat and folding platforms from the car. That is close to the single largest item you can remove to get the car weight down. The next would be going to plexiglass windows.
Thanks for the information. It is the 1966 style tray so there will be no hassle with the spare.
It is an easy install. I used four #10 screws to hold it down though. I'm very happy with it still after all of these years. 25 or so.
To make it very useful you would need to add a cargo net and probably a molded rubber mat but the ribs would interfere with the mat. So it is mostly for show and weight reduction.
This is what mine looks like. You can see where I put the screws in the pic.
I would assume that you will be using a fiberglass reproduction tray as opposed to an original plastic one.
If so, I'm pretty sure that it will be rigid enough that you really do not have to worry about any support provided by wood pieces.
Here is the back of an original:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV84FXsbbh8RFHI6vsTvRivXq2huh78sUYR2cyXTsTuyzkWR-IxyAKXLu_zoMXY9-37dTqJDRg9E65lBF7U1ssuf_lQE6uDgu5umuryQ5hNZDekTR8KqS7r6Kr2Ctd6IcpSPtU6b64NYzuNiYUFijcmOMgw=w800)
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 13, 2023, 02:02:55 PM
Quote from: greekz on December 13, 2023, 12:46:38 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 13, 2023, 12:42:14 PM
There are two types that you can use.
The '65 type with the spare tire projecting through the trap door opening or the 66 type that does not affect the trap door.
I have used both. The '66 repro fiberglass panel needs no reinforcement. The '65 panel is reinforced within a few inches of the end projecting into the trunk. I think it is there to reinforce the panel for the spare tire? I haven't used that one in a while.
The better panel is the fiberglass reproduction of the '66 panel since it is already reinforced with integral ribs.
The original '66 panel was molded plastic. Someone attempted to document the actual number installed by SOA and they thought maybe around 100.
The problem with it is that it turns into "silly putty" from direct summer sun light or heat and flops around like a fish out of water. BY FAR the better piece is the fiberglass reproduction that people like Branda sell.
The '65 panel may look cool to you but it is an SOB to get the tire in there. It needs to be bolted to the "floor" which in that case is the top of the shock tower structure.
If you are going to put the car on any track with a Tech they are usually going to MAKE you remove it even if it is bolted in. That isn't easy and in the warm weather you will roast back there trying to do it.
It is also very slick, as in slippery with anything on it. Even water and because of that it really is useless as a package tray. The '66 has a lip built into it and can be used as a package tray with some basic precautions.
The wood on the '65 is just a piece of 1x2 glued with an adhesive similar to what we call Construction Adhesive now. It actually gets in the way when you are trying to install the panel.
I remember getting frustrated with it during installation. I removed it and reinstalled it after it was in.
An added benefit to these trays is that you are removing about 85 pounds of rear seat and folding platforms from the car. That is close to the single largest item you can remove to get the car weight down. The next would be going to plexiglass windows.
Thanks for the information. It is the 1966 style tray so there will be no hassle with the spare.
It is an easy install. I bolted it down though. I'm very happy with it still after all of these years. 25 or so.
This is what mine looks like. You can see where I put the screws in the pic.
Thanks for the picture, very helpful!
Quote from: Brant on December 13, 2023, 03:04:19 PM
I would assume that you will be using a fiberglass reproduction tray as opposed to an original plastic one.
If so, I'm pretty sure that it will be rigid enough that you really do not have to worry about any support provided by wood pieces.
Here is the back of an original:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV84FXsbbh8RFHI6vsTvRivXq2huh78sUYR2cyXTsTuyzkWR-IxyAKXLu_zoMXY9-37dTqJDRg9E65lBF7U1ssuf_lQE6uDgu5umuryQ5hNZDekTR8KqS7r6Kr2Ctd6IcpSPtU6b64NYzuNiYUFijcmOMgw=w800)
Yes, it is the fiberglass reproduction. Thanks for the picture.
Hi Greek,
You might be able to get away without the mid support, but the rear supports has the latch for the fastback trap door. You might want that. I make both pieces, very near identical to the originals. See attached images. I also sent you a PM.
Cory
Thank you to everyone who had provided suggestions and pictures. It will make the installation much easier. That is only one of the great things about this Forum, members willingness to help.
Greek
I put one of the '66 Branda units in my 69 GT-350. I did not have to reinforce it, in fact I did not even screw it in. That being said, I do not put anything on it except for a jacket, towel, etc or ?.
I did put some thin strips of foam weatherstrip along the side fiberglass panels to keep it from rattling, then put some velcro on the bottom side in center & on top of the rear end hump, so it is easily removeable. It all stays put quite well. I did not make a latch for the trap door, it seems to stay put on its own.
I like the look & got rid of the weight of the fold down. Also, I put a couple of layers of insulation under it to help cut down on road noise.
fwiw Mike
The fiberglass 66 panel doens't need any reinforcing.
Some kind of insulation under it does help otherwise it does work somewhat as a drum from the exhausts. The best would be like shipping companies do with expandable foam inside a plastic bag.
I did this with my latch. I found that the trap door would rattle a little too much for my taste. The edge of the panel has a lip on it that you can drill through and bolt a bracket to. I also took some windlance and put it on the edge since the fiberglass there is a dull sharp edge.
I suppose you can get as creative as you would like? Personally I think it is a good modification but others might consider it sacrilege?
Quote from: mikeh on December 14, 2023, 12:21:59 PM
I put one of the '66 Branda units in my 69 GT-350. I did not have to reinforce it, in fact I did not even screw it in. That being said, I do not put anything on it except for a jacket, towel, etc or ?.
I did put some thin strips of foam weatherstrip along the side fiberglass panels to keep it from rattling, then put some velcro on the bottom side in center & on top of the rear end hump, so it is easily removeable. It all stays put quite well. I did not make a latch for the trap door, it seems to stay put on its own.
I like the look & got rid of the weight of the fold down. Also, I put a couple of layers of insulation under it to help cut down on road noise.
fwiw Mike
Thanks, Mike, I appreciate the help.
Greek
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 01:09:10 PM
The fiberglass 66 panel doens't need any reinforcing.
Some kind of insulation under it does help otherwise it does work somewhat as a drum from the exhausts. The best would be like shipping companies do with expandable foam inside a plastic bag.
I did this with my latch. I found that the trap door would rattle a little too much for my taste. The edge of the panel has a lip on it that you can drill through and bolt a bracket to. I also took some windlance and put it on the edge since the fiberglass there is a dull sharp edge.
I suppose you can get as creative as you would like? Personally I think it is a good modification but others might consider it sacrilege?
ShelbyDoug,
Thanks for the latch information and the wind lace suggestion. That is one option to consider.
Greek
Oh yes I forgot, I also put windlace around the entire tray.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Branda is going to sell a bunch of these 66 rear panels real soon.
I won't be surprised at all that they are suddenly "discovered"? ;)
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 04:51:19 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Branda is going to sell a bunch of these 66 rear panels real soon.
I won't be surprised at all that they are suddenly "discovered"? ;)
Is not funny how things happen that way out of the blue.
Quote from: greekz on December 14, 2023, 06:29:19 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 04:51:19 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Branda is going to sell a bunch of these 66 rear panels real soon.
I won't be surprised at all that they are suddenly "discovered"? ;)
Is not funny how things happen that way out of the blue.
Ironically yes BUT I did this like 35 years ago so where has everyone been 'til now? Huh? 8)
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 06:56:48 PM
Quote from: greekz on December 14, 2023, 06:29:19 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 04:51:19 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Branda is going to sell a bunch of these 66 rear panels real soon.
Ironically yes BUT I did this like 35 years ago so where has everyone been 'til now? Huh? 8)
Shelbydoug,
I put a '66 Branda try in my GT500 back in the eighties. The secret is that the rear seat dimensions are the same from '65 through '69. I fabricated brackets that bolts up in the same location that the aft fold down seat panel installs. Holds everything nice and snug.
Quote from: S7MS427 on December 22, 2023, 03:00:05 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 06:56:48 PM
Quote from: greekz on December 14, 2023, 06:29:19 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 14, 2023, 04:51:19 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion that Branda is going to sell a bunch of these 66 rear panels real soon.
Ironically yes BUT I did this like 35 years ago so where has everyone been 'til now? Huh? 8)
Shelbydoug,
I put a '66 Branda try in my GT500 back in the eighties. The secret is that the rear seat dimensions are the same from '65 through '69. I fabricated brackets that bolts up in the same location that the aft fold down seat panel installs. Holds everything nice and snug.
I remembered someone else vaguely that had also done this but didn't remember the specifics. Perhaps it was you? :o
I think it is a really nice mod since hardly anyone seems to need the backseat. You can always keep the rear seat and include it when you sell the car?
The '80s is when I put in the 66 panel. I put in a '65 panel around 1976 or so. It was the only one available back then that I knew of. It is actually not a bad location for the spare but at the time I was autocrossing the car and the tech guys would make me take it out anyway so that really was a pain to do constantly.
Quote from: shelbydoug on December 22, 2023, 03:10:25 PM
I remembered someone else vaguely that had also done this but didn't remember the specifics. Perhaps it was you? :o
I think it is a really nice mod since hardly anyone seems to need the backseat. You can always keep the rear seat and include it when you sell the car?
The '80s is when I put in the 66 panel. I put in a '65 panel around 1976 or so. It was the only one available back then that I knew of. It is actually not a bad location for the spare but at the time I was autocrossing the car and the tech guys would make me take it out anyway so that really was a pain to do constantly.
Could have been me, not sure. What forced me into doing this mod was the fact that when the back seat was occupied, I'd sometime catch the the rear fender lips with the back tires. And with the exhaust pipes running directly below the rear floorpan, people could not ride in the back due to frying their butts off. So I make it so no one could ride in the back...
To me the Mustang rear seats are about as useful as the Porsche/Audi seats are which is really, not at all.
When I took the seat and all the carpeted panels out I weighed the lot. It came to 85 pounds. Taking that out is some serious weight reduction. The top carpeted panels are made out of 3/4" plywood.
I had found out early in ownership that putting someone in back made the car run on the bump stops with the nose in the air. Hitting any kind of bump in the road under that condition and you would feel it as if the car had bottomed into a pot hole. Hard and violently.
People would panic and ask "what's wrong with your car?" ::)
At some point I had noticed that many of the '65 R models had added an extra top leaf to the rear springs. I wondered why and added one from a '69 Torino station wagon with the loops cut off to experiment with.
To my amazement the car rode better, didn't bottom out and allowed me to run 295-50-15 BFG T/A's on 10 spokes in the rear without rubbing (and within the fenders).
Those added rear springs also aid in steering control in the front, believe it or not. They add directional stability to it.
But I've done other development work as well. I found the rear Konis too harsh and instead found that the Comfort-ride shocks are the ones to run in the rear.
There is a size 27 battery in the trunk on a B9 tray and B9 cable running to the front. That's a relocation of about 60 pounds off the front to the rear. That's kind of obvious that it is part of the package as well and why the added spring and different shocks work I'm sure.
I had also tried rear anti-sway bars and couldn't make them work at all. Maybe that is because I run a 1-1/8" front bar?
I'm not sure why but R models ran no rear bar so I'm not sure how the '69 Boss' can?
I recently described my '68 GT350 as basically a Trans Am car in disguise. One person knowledgeable smiled suspiciously and nodded yes. Another said, "how can you drive that on the street?" I said, "it rides like a Lincoln. It isn't harsh at all". 8)
With all this "development" work that I have done, I found that the removal of the back seat is actually complimentary to it, or maybe better stated, part of the package?
I don't think anyone needs to go through my program to justify the installation of the panel though? It stands quite well all by itself. I would recommend it to anyone with the fastback.
The four hex head sheet metal screws that you see in the picture I posted are mounted into the original hidden seat brackets. I'll just make them less conspicuous in the future probably with black allen socket button head screws or the like? It will float around on you if you don't secure it down some how.