Of the many 67/68 T-bird (nee, 67 Shelby) hubcaps I've collected, 4 hubcaps are nice enough to consider for concours.
There are three colors on these hubcaps and I need to know what is a color match that you have used or seen.
Outer area in trough with valve stem -- appears to be flat black.
Major portion of hubcap including area under spokes -- looks like flat Mustang argent.
Area in the 'five cooling vent' area -- appears to be a flat silver-white argent.
As noted, all colors appear to be flat.
Sounds about right. Let the experts confirm.
https://www.diyford.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CT507_FULLBOOK_ShelbyMustangGuide_Page_128_Image_0003.jpg
That would look so DANG good as a 15x8" wheel with a 4-1/4" backspace and a 275/55 R 15 Avon C6RZZ on it. 🤓
Outer area in trough with valve stem -- appears to be flat black. "A" on the image below
Major portion of hubcap including area under spokes -- looks like flat Mustang argent. "B" on the image below - maybe semi-gloss not flat
Area in the 'five cooling vent' area -- appears to be a flat silver-white argent. "C" below - silver not white, also semi-gloss?
As noted, all colors appear to be flat.
Maybe others will chime in, I know Kieth has some more images and others as well.
Also, a photo someone posted or sent with the center element removed, show the color fade from exposure.
One other thing, there seems to be a later issue version (service replacement?) of these that has the gray metallic section with a much more pronounced "larger" metal-flake.
Quote from: JD on July 22, 2018, 10:17:39 AM
Outer area in trough with valve stem -- appears to be flat black. "A" on the image below
Major portion of hubcap including area under spokes -- looks like flat Mustang argent. "B" on the image below - maybe semi-gloss not flat
Area in the 'five cooling vent' area -- appears to be a flat silver-white argent. "C" below - silver not white, also semi-gloss?
As noted, all colors appear to be flat.
Maybe others will chime in, I know Kieth has some more images and others as well.
Also, a photo someone posted or sent with the center element removed, show the color fade from exposure.
One other thing, there seems to be a later issue version (service replacement?) of these that has the gray metallic section with a much more pronounced "larger" metal-flake.
JD, Nice photos to show the differences. They might be from Kieth.
I would think the "B" area in gray/silver argent is either flat or satin, NOT semi gloss.
Same for the "C" area in silver (NO white) flat or satin, NOT semi gloss
Here's another photo I believe is an NOS hupcap from Kieth
Quote from: JD on July 22, 2018, 10:17:39 AM
Outer area in trough with valve stem -- appears to be flat black. "A" on the image below
Major portion of hubcap including area under spokes -- looks like flat Mustang argent. "B" on the image below - maybe semi-gloss not flat
Area in the 'five cooling vent' area -- appears to be a flat silver-white argent. "C" below - silver not white, also semi-gloss?
As noted, all colors appear to be flat.
Maybe others will chime in, I know Kieth has some more images and others as well.
Also, a photo someone posted or sent with the center element removed, show the color fade from exposure.
One other thing, there seems to be a later issue version (service replacement?) of these that has the gray metallic section with a much more pronounced "larger" metal-flake.
I thought i would mention that the emblem in the hubcap used for reference indicates that the hubcap is a later service style that never came on the cars originally. However I believe that the colors and shades described are accurate.
On my NOS wheel covers, my eyes see:
"A" as flat black,
"B" as semi-flat charcoal,
"C" as flat Argent silver:
(http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=6119;image)
Quote from: SFM66H on July 23, 2018, 02:44:10 PM
On my NOS wheel covers, my eyes see:
"A" as flat black,
"B" as semi-flat charcoal,
"C" as flat Argent silver:
(http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2488.0;attach=6119;image)
I am not sure if the picture is of your NOS hubcap or the same one JD posted but It appears that when you compare the center emblem in the picture with the center emblem in reply 4 that the picture in this case is the later service replacement with the mustard colored emblem . Of course it could just be the angle and the lighting. The emblem mustard color is very similar to what the repro gas cap, fender and grill emblems look like. The repro people may have used the hubcap emblem as a basis for all of the other wrong colored emblems. It is common for the repro companies to take the last item serviced before it went obsolete as a model to copy from.
JD's photo looks like it has the plastic floor protector from the concours judging at SAAC 40 in the Kalahari.
Might be #1518 hubcaps.
Quote from: SFM66H on July 23, 2018, 02:44:10 PM
On my NOS wheel covers, my eyes see:
"A" as flat black,
"B" as semi-flat charcoal,
"C" as flat Argent silver.
Thanks for the detailed pic. I know what flat black is; semi-flat charcoal is no std Mustang color that I know of, but I can find something close; Argent silver is another odd one.
I've added a pic below to illustrate that on all of my hubcaps the color 'B' is also on the area with a blue line I've marked as 'D' (6:00 o'clock). It follows the small step and stops on the flat edge of the cap.
I can't tell from the angle of your shot if your cap has this area painted or not.
I found an un-restored 67 Shelby at Roundup this last weekend with caps, and it has this area painted.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on July 22, 2018, 11:46:53 AM
I thought i would mention that the emblem in the hubcap used for reference indicates that the hubcap is a later service style that never came on the cars originally. However I believe that the colors and shades described are accurate.
Bob -- How can you tell that? What are you seeing that I cannot? Can you tell me which pic?
My caps are all C7SA-1141-A and the area inside where the Shelby logo goes is 1.7". On edit, while I was writing, Bob answered the question!
this may help regarding the emblems and Bob's comment to those that didn't get Bob's reply to the OP.
Note the color of these emblems and the one (second image) close-up and rotated is of the one in replies above. (the one on the far right in the first image is to show that some have used horn button foils which was never - to my knowledge - used and not correct.)
Also note how close the "S" and "A" are to the inside of the cavity.
The gray indicated in above images as area "B" does have metallic but it is (should be) very fine.
Rich, yes that would seem to be the car. It was judged twice, Wisconsin and Pa events consecutive years.
Very good data on the cap emblem variations, JD. Thanks. That clears up a lot of questions other than where do I find a set of real emblems?
Finding hubcaps in restorable condition has been tough. Finding correct wheels has been tougher. I also need to find the post in which someone was selling the correct lug nuts.
I didn't know going in how difficult it was to do a correct steel wheel and hubcap combination!
Just for reference here is a comparison of the three types of lug nuts used on '67's...for some that may not be aware.
Also, The wheel covers used the smallest of the 3 version of emblems for the '67 centers, the 10-spoke was the middle size and the Mag Star was the largest.
Quote from: Bossbill on July 24, 2018, 12:47:04 PM
Very good data on the cap emblem variations, JD. Thanks. That clears up a lot of questions other than where do I find a set of real emblems?
Finding hubcaps in restorable condition has been tough. Finding correct wheels has been tougher. I also need to find the post in which someone was selling the correct lug nuts.
I didn't know going in how difficult it was to do a correct steel wheel and hubcap combination!
I believe it is Jim Cowles from "Shelby Parts & Restorations" who offered the lug nuts for the hubcaps.
Quote from: Bossbill on July 24, 2018, 12:47:04 PM
Very good data on the cap emblem variations, JD. Thanks. That clears up a lot of questions other than where do I find a set of real emblems?
Finding hubcaps in restorable condition has been tough. Finding correct wheels has been tougher. I also need to find the post in which someone was selling the correct lug nuts.
I didn't know going in how difficult it was to do a correct steel wheel and hubcap combination!
Bill ,I am sorry to say don't hold your breath . I have never seen any for sale separate from the hubcaps. I have being a Shelby enthusiast and parts hound for over 45 years. I don't even know if they were ever serviced separately . If they were it wasn't for very long . I didn't think a GT500 flat gas cap emblem was serviced ether but one day I saw one. My point is the odds of you finding are slim . You would have better luck ether finding NOS or putting together a nice used set utilizing center half that still looks acceptable and pairing that with a nice outside rim. You could also go to the trouble of making up some emblems of your own starting from scratch. Using existing emblems and cutting them down has been discussed but it depends on your expectations if you would be satisfied. More power to you.
Bob,
Would you happen to know if the Shelby hub caps were Thunderbird caps with the inserts installed over the Thunderbird emblem? If they began life as Thunderbird completed units, were the Thunderbird inserts removed or were the Shelby emblems installed directly over the existing?
Thanks in advance.
Dennis
Quote from: Richstang on July 24, 2018, 02:01:49 PM
I believe it is Jim Cowles from "Shelby Parts & Restorations" who offered the lug nuts for the hubcaps.
Contacted, Paypaled with the lugs in the mail.
Thanks to you and Jim!
JD's reply #3 has a picture of the hubcap disassembled. It shows the blue T-bird emblem.
While at our assembly of "Largest assembly of Mustangs in the World" at Bellevue's Roundup an original, unrestored (one repaint early in its life) and often driven GT350 hubcap car showed up. It has its original caps (according to the owner) and has lost 2 of the Shelby cap emblems over the years due to the glue failing. I took a picture of the blue cap. The other 2 caps were correct, if faded, with the outline showing.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/411-240718210323.jpeg)
Hope to see what Bob thinks!
Quote from: Bossbill on July 24, 2018, 09:11:52 PM
JD's reply #3 has a picture of the hubcap disassembled. It shows the blue T-bird emblem.
While at our assembly of "Largest assembly of Mustangs in the World" at Bellevue's Roundup an original, unrestored (one repaint early in its life) and often driven GT350 hubcap car showed up. It has its original caps (according to the owner) and has lost 2 of the Shelby cap emblems over the years due to the glue failing. I took a picture of the blue cap. The other 2 caps were correct, if faded, with the outline showing.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/411-240718210323.jpeg)
Hope to see what Bob thinks!
Sorry . I don't buy it . I am skeptical of the glue failing story. Call me a cynic but I have heard too many stories(literally hundreds over the years ) to justify a non original as original in my life. The easiest explanation is typically the most plausible - they got replaced . That is what I think since you asked . Regardless it doesn't really matter if the owner is spinning a glue failing story to justify a non original part or not because it still is just as much a problem if original or if a replacement from a T bird because it is missing the emblem. FYI T bird hubcaps are great donors. That is what the picture JD showed . It was my picture that I posted in a for sale ad showing what you could use off of a T bird hubcap to help make a Shelby hubcap better. I had a excellent T bird hubcap I was selling. The outside plate is the most often damaged part because of curb rash on the Shelby hubcaps.
I'll trust you, Bob.
But it still begs the question.
How is the emblem center of the Shelby hubcap constructed? What's under the Shelby Cobra foil emblem?
The Shelby foil emblem was glued to the blue t-bird emblem. But, the foil emblem(like the t-bird plastic emblem) is larger than the opening, so it makes it hard for it to fall out.
The plastic center is held firmly in place by metal tabs on the back side. I have had Shelby foil emblems that had no glue remaining (dried out) but still held in place by the metal tabs. The are actually wedged between the hubcap housing and the plastic emblems with the metal tabs.
Brent
I realize some of you may have tired of this discussion, but I was not party to the initial thread in V1.0 and some of the pics posted in this thread were from that version in different posts without all of the background info from those posts.
Brent has raised an interesting point about emblem size and how it was installed.
If one were to stick an adhesive foil on an existing T-bird emblem from the outside of the cap it could be no larger than 1.70 inches -- the inside diameter of the 5 spoke's emblem area. That is the maximum size, so any emblem would have to have a slightly smaller diameter for production variances in spoke and emblem.
I took the pic that JD posted of the emblems:
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/411-250718140007.jpeg)
and edited it show just the first emblem. This appears to be of an emblem put on after the fact. If the emblem were installed as Brent says, there would be no dark background around the edge of the emblem. The off center nature also suggests this.
Any emblem put on top of the T-Bird emblem and installed from the rear of the 5 spoke could be up to 1.865" (the OD of the T-bird emblem) and then it would be held captive in the cavity.
At least that's how I see it from the information you guys have given me.
just so some don't mis-understand I believe these emblems are aluminum but not "foil" thin - they are heavy enough gauge to be rigid.
The only emblems that I'm aware of that were foil were the steering wheel horn button emblems
Quote from: JD on July 25, 2018, 03:46:25 PM
just so some don't mis-understand I believe these emblems are aluminum but not "foil" thin - they are heavy enough gauge to be rigid.
The only emblems that I'm aware of that were foil were the steering wheel horn button emblems
+1