I need a new muffler for my 70 GT 500. Possibly new pipes as well. Where is best source for that? It presently has the original exhaust system and I want to stay with similar reproductions. Tks!
There is only one good system
Scott Fuller Reproductions
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 07, 2023, 05:57:52 PM
There is only one good system
Scott Fuller Reproductions
...With power loss of around 25-30 horsepower. IF that matters to you.
Scott Fuller systems cost 25 horsepower over other? Is there a dyno test to verify this?
Pat
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 07, 2023, 05:57:52 PM
There is only one good system
Scott Fuller Reproductions
+ 1 . That is if you are concerned about what is the closest thing to what came on the car from Ford.
Scott Fuller has the most correct and authentic exhaust systems
The End
Scott's muffler is $675 and CJ Pony has same muffler for $260?
No they dont have the "same" muffler
Scott's is an identical copy of the original
CJ Pony has a muffler that might work ...big difference
I'm sorry I thought your original post said the "best" not the cheapest?
If you are doing price comparison then you should know that a NOS genuine 69/70 Shelby GT500 transverse mufflers typically sell for 2000.00 plus if you can even find one. That genuine price has come down quite a bit from what it was going for because when Scott's system came out it was so accurate it was hard if not impossible to tell the difference from genuine and so many of those requiring only the most authentic opted to buy Scott's system causing demand of NOS originals to lessen hence a market price reduction. It is all relative.
Quote from: azdriver on July 07, 2023, 06:31:43 PM
Scott Fuller systems cost 25 horsepower over other? Is there a dyno test to verify this?
Pat
All stock (or near stock) transverse mufflers are very restrictive. I personally reduced 4 tenths by simply removing it and going with a decent set of turbo mufflers. Yes, not stock. However, more power. There you go, verified difference. However, the topic was about the 'best' replacement for a transverse muffler. Lastly (again, not stock) Flowmaster makes a good flowing transverse muffler...IF you are into that sort of thing.
Original post did not say best, or cheapest, muffler. It said best source, and that I wanted a similar reproduction. All cars are different. Mine does not have the original engine, has was painted a different color with an interior color change as well. It will never be judged. It'll be driven hard, and not fretted over if it gets a rock chip in the paint. So, cost is a bit more relative. A good muffler that resembles the original, and fits as the original fit, is all that I need.
As to Scott's schematic, he does not show the collector part, so it threw me off. It looked as if his tailpipes were the last part of a complete system, and they are not. He clarified that for me.
Quote from: tahart on July 07, 2023, 10:42:41 PM
Original post did not say best, or cheapest, muffler. It said best source, and that I wanted a similar reproduction. All cars are different. Mine does not have the original engine, has was painted a different color with an interior color change as well. It will never be judged. It'll be driven hard, and not fretted over if it gets a rock chip in the paint. So, cost is a bit more relative. A good muffler that resembles the original, and fits as the original fit, is all that I need.
As to Scott's schematic, he does not show the collector part, so it threw me off. It looked as if his tailpipes were the last part of a complete system, and they are not. He clarified that for me.
If your not that concerned about originality Then Branda Performance sells one https://store.cobranda.com/21trmu.html . They are a long time supporter of the Shelby Marque. I have read about and also have had people tell me first hand of numerous poor customer service complaints about CJ.
The transverse muffler on mine come from Branda and when I look at it carefully I noticed it is a two inch inlet and outlet ( GT350 ) resized the 2 1/4.
So be aware about that depend what is your criteria...
Patrick
Quote from: Shelbypat on July 08, 2023, 05:21:52 PM
The transverse muffler on mine come from Branda and when I look at it carefully I noticed it is a two inch inlet and outlet ( GT350 ) resized the 2 1/4.
So be aware about that depend what is your critary...
Patrick
Patrick
First off the inlet/outlet size at the muffler on 68/69 CJ's is 2 1/8" not 2 1/4". The system is 2 1/4" at the H pipe but not at the muffler. Second I believe that that is what Ford/Arvin did originally, spot weld a 2 1/8" nipple to a 2" muffler. Perhaps Scott Fuller can confirm that being true or not or not true. Just what it looks like to me.
Quote from: KR500 on July 08, 2023, 05:57:06 PM
Quote from: Shelbypat on July 08, 2023, 05:21:52 PM
The transverse muffler on mine come from Branda and when I look at it carefully I noticed it is a two inch inlet and outlet ( GT350 ) resized the 2 1/4.
So be aware about that depend what is your critary...
Patrick
Patrick
First off the inlet/outlet size at the muffler on 68/69 CJ's is 2 1/8" not 2 1/4". The system is 2 1/4" at the H pipe but not at the muffler. Second I believe that that is what Ford/Arvin did originally, spot weld a 2 1/8" nipple to a 2" muffler. Perhaps Scott Fuller can confirm that being true or not or not true. Just what it looks like to me.
+1 . The resonators are 2 "inlet also. The 2/14 pipe is reduced down into the 2 inch inlet of the resonator. I suppose the one size fits all made more sense economically then back pressure efficiency.
Im reminding of buying four GT350 H pipes from various vendors, before I bought the pipe from Scott.
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 08, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Im reminding of buying four GT350 H pipes from various vendors, before I bought the pipe from Scott.
I have an "NOS" systems exhaust on my 70 GT350. Does anyone remember that company? NPD sold them but when I went to buy one they were then obsolete and NPD had them as out. As luck would have it my old friend Scott at NPD told me they had one system left not in the system and I bought it around 1999. It fit good on my car. Does anyone know what happened to that company and why they quit making exhaust systems? I put a NOS 69 Muffler on my car though. I might be wrong on the name but thought it was NOS exhausts and think they were out of Il.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on July 09, 2023, 08:52:35 AM
Quote from: Coralsnake on July 08, 2023, 08:12:18 PM
Im reminding of buying four GT350 H pipes from various vendors, before I bought the pipe from Scott.
I have an "NOS" systems exhaust on my 70 GT350. Does anyone remember that company? NPD sold them but when I went to buy one they were then obsolete and NPD had them as out. As luck would have it my old friend Scott at NPD told me they had one system left not in the system and I bought it around 1999. It fit good on my car. Does anyone know what happened to that company and why they quit making exhaust systems? I put a NOS 69 Muffler on my car though. I might be wrong on the name but thought it was NOS exhausts and think they were out of Il.
NOS Unlimited -Terry Cramer. He had Arvin the original mfg to Ford make them up from existing patterns they still had. That is why they fit so good. NOS Unlimited did not sell the transverse however . He quit making them because of a dispute with Arvin.
He is still around in the Ford Performance world on the side lines . I and others here have interacted with him for parts etc. over the years. Others like Jim Cowles RIP had tried get them to make more exhaust but could not get anywhere with Arvin. Scott Fuller went to Arvin and they were completely soured because of the previous deal with NOS Unlimited Scott related.Scott had to start from ground zero which added tremendously to his costs . I have used both systems quite a bit over the years and they both fit as original . NOS Unlimited compared to Scott's system appeared less authentic given Scott has the engineering numbers stamped in plus sells a virtually identical to the factory transverse, clamps ,hangers etc.
Good summary Bob. I have several sets of Terry's resonator pipes that I've picked up over the years and just keep them around for reference. I don't think Terry every made anything except the 1969 triple-hump resonator pipes for CJ/SCJ. No 1967/1968 2-inch, no 1968.5 GT500KR or Mustang, and no 1969 GT-350/351 W pipes. The pipes are interesting to me because they were made by Arvin. But there are many differences between them and the original assembly line parts. Still cool to see. I took a pair of Terry's today and put them in the weld fixture I use to fabricate mine and it fit very well, not perfect but very well. Saw the original tooling used to make the resonators when I visited an old Arvin plant. They had acres of old tooling and machines sitting outside rusting. Some I could determine what it was for and some not. Asked if I could walk the yard and was told "no". Asked it I could buy it and was told "no". Sending it to scrap.
Scott Fuller
Quote from: Scott Fuller on July 09, 2023, 10:12:49 PM
Good summary Bob. I have several sets of Terry's resonator pipes that I've picked up over the years and just keep them around for reference. I don't think Terry every made anything except the 1969 triple-hump resonator pipes for CJ/SCJ. No 1967/1968 2-inch, no 1968.5 GT500KR or Mustang, and no 1969 GT-350/351 W pipes. The pipes are interesting to me because they were made by Arvin. But there are many differences between them and the original assembly line parts. Still cool to see. I took a pair of Terry's today and put them in the weld fixture I use to fabricate mine and it fit very well, not perfect but very well. Saw the original tooling used to make the resonators when I visited an old Arvin plant. They had acres of old tooling and machines sitting outside rusting. Some I could determine what it was for and some not. Asked if I could walk the yard and was told "no". Asked it I could buy it and was told "no". Sending it to scrap.
Scott Fuller
I think I still have a couple of one side of the unique GT350/351W intermediate pipes I got from Terry one of the times he was selling what was left a couple decades ago .I will have to look if they have a engineering number or not . If they do I will know they originally were Ford or if not then Terry's Arvin stock.
I agree Terry only sold the 3 hump intermediate and turn out pipes for 69/70 Shelby. Jim Cowles RIP had some 2 inch double hump intermediate pipes made up that were of the same OEM quality about 15-20 years ago. I don't know who he had make them.
Correct scott and arvin was just north of me seymour indiana from what i remember. Nos unlimited was was the best in the 80s and they made correct mufflers just not ford oval and engineering #5230 instead arvin id #s on resonators mufflers tailpipes etc. Back in mid 80s terrys first run of 500 systems were steel like originals but tailpipes mufflers were aluminized and we were driving cars back then before enclosed trailers u know!! So i asked terry if he could make the whole system aluminized so pipes wouldnt rust so next 500 system run was totally aluminized and i remember him coming to saac meet with trailer loaded down to the ground and he told me if i bought 10 systems i would get 1 free so i did. Then in the 90s arvin dryed up and no more then canada exhaust was made (ray nadua) toronto canada obelete ford parts company (like green sales of usa i was there severaltimes in peter kluts (shelby shop) now legendarys motorcars) area back years ago. The canada exhaust wasnt CONCOURS correct but would work then after meeting scott fuller ( the rocket man ) i told him there was a big need for concours correct exhaust so him being a genuis working for the government had lots of connections to makes parts correct and i think the first thing he made was 68 1/2 cj kr starter delay a very hard part to find then exhaust made from assembly line (not service type) exhaust systems like 69 original parts i sent him and others who cared about getting it right with ford id #s and all markings #s and datecodes etc. Then became the big problem whats more correct the ford nos service replacement exhaust that was made back in the 70s and not like assemblyline or the new scott fuller made from assembly line correct exhaust? Thats is the big ? Alot has to do with the pipe bending mandrell etc and ford id #s alignment tabs and the running changes and scotts date codes are correct from documented research but i can tell u this put a concours correct fuller exhaust on your car and any other exhaust and see how it fits and u will see why its worth the $.
Thanks Bob, Ed and Scott for your shared knowledge on this. The only problem I had putting my exhaust on was the fact the car wasn't on a lift for ground clearance! I still need "correct" muffler to collector pipes. Like I said I was lucky in that my system was NPD's last at their Livonia(now Canton) store and Scott Halseth sold it to me and it wasn't in their system. I had bought a NOS Ford muffler years earlier. I still have a pair of original used 3 hump GT500 resonators in my attic. Cut them off of the bad pipes back in 1984. Gary
If u are worried about the cost then i would go with precision exhaust Dave E. now makes a correct looking resonator pipe exhaust system cj and kentucky mustang branda etc sells his new tapered resonator type pipes system so it really depends on how concours correct u want your car to be and if its ever judged on a lift u can see all the differences and how it fits and the original ford #s etc. So if u go in div1 or concours trailered class u should have fuller exhaust or NOS exhaust but in div 11 or concours driven class u can go either way so it just depends on the car and how correct u want to be but fuller exhaust is the best and always will be but the new improved precision exhaust is better now if u are on a budget and going to drive car to shows so u really get what u pay for either way now and if u want raw steel or aluminized exhaust system.