SAAC Forum

The Cars => CSX 3000 Series => Topic started by: rkm on June 24, 2023, 01:36:52 PM

Title: Ethanol, gas
Post by: rkm on June 24, 2023, 01:36:52 PM
Up here in the great white north until very recently you could buy 91 octane gas that had no ethanol in it. In November this year Mr. Trudeau decreed that in order to save the environment all gas had to contain up to 10% ethanol. I am running a medium rise cast-iron head 427 side oiler with Hardened valve seats. I have a fuel cell in the car and a single Holley 8 50 double pumper. What are you guys doing when you can't get non-ethanol gas ? Is there some additive that fixes the water and makes it combustible so that it doesn't sit in your fuel tank and float bowls ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Kim.
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: FL SAAC on June 24, 2023, 02:19:45 PM
Fuel cell is a great move as the ethanol tends to enjoy devouring the metal tanks.

 If this is your first go around with ethanol expect to change your gas filter a few times as ethanol tends to loosen up or cleanse everything in your fuel systems that may have accumulated through out the years.

Expect to change all of your current rubber hoses sooner than later.

Possibly your sending unit, carb and fuel pump may fail due to their age and not having the correct ethanol resistant components in them

Octane booster and stabil gas treatments have been our friends for quite a while.  We use the marine blend in all our fuel tanks

Good luck
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: FL SAAC on June 24, 2023, 02:20:34 PM
Have you heard of the new EFI units ?

Just kidding, I could not resist as it is a current topic of discussion
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: mark p on June 24, 2023, 03:01:10 PM
In NJ we've not seen "real" gasoline for a looooonnnngggg time.
From what I've read and seen, additives such as StaBil and Star*Tron are supposed to keep the ethanol from separating and gathering water. I've been using StarTron for years... and have not seen any issues. Some internet reseach last year led me to try Biobor EB, supposedly better than the other additives... but it's too early for me to draw any conclusions.
(fwiw, I have 2 cars from the 60's with carbs and 2 from the 80's with factory injection)
Good luck.
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: prototypefan on June 24, 2023, 03:20:40 PM
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/70040.htm

100LL Aviation fuel does wonders if you are storing a vehicle for more than a couple months
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: FL SAAC on June 24, 2023, 03:34:10 PM
Quote from: prototypefan on June 24, 2023, 03:20:40 PM
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/70040.htm

100LL Aviation fuel does wonders if you are storing a vehicle for more than a couple months


Yes indeed good stuff, in our area we can purchase at only 9 to 10 dollars per gallon.

What a deal  !

Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: SFM5S000 on June 24, 2023, 04:27:32 PM
Kim,

Sent you a PM

Earl
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: JJH on June 24, 2023, 06:43:44 PM
I've used Seafoam additive for years and never ran into an Ethanol problem.
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 24, 2023, 07:17:08 PM
Quote from: FL SAAC on June 24, 2023, 02:19:45 PM
Fuel cell is a great move as the ethanol tends to enjoy devouring the metal tanks.
Fuel cell can be a bad idea. Depending on the material it's made of a failure can be imminent. Ethanol loves to eat rubber and even fiberglass as a lot of boat owners found out when it was introduced.

Alcohol is a highly corrosive substance that's hard on plastic, rubber, and even some metals, and over time it will eat away at your vehicle's most vulnerable components.

Seven Steps To Avoid Ethanol Fuel Problems In Your Classic Car
1-Use ethanol-resistant hoses or nylon tubing to replace any plastic or rubber fuel lines.
2-Replace fiberglass fuel tanks with a stainless steel tank.
3-Use a water separator filter in the fuel line leading to the carburetor. Since water collects in the filter, you can easily remove it.
4-Change out any O-rings in the fuel system to ethanol compatible rings.
5-A carburetor fogging solution prevents condensation from filling fuel bowls.
6-Use a flex-fuel-compatible fuel filter as it stops degradation of the fuel filter media.
7-Use a non-alcohol based fuel treatment to prevent excessive water collection in your fuel. Ethanol based fuel treatments worsen problems caused by E10 gas.
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: gt350shelb on June 25, 2023, 10:01:51 AM
 I would not recommend using it in a fuel cell that was not designed for ethanol fuel .

cheap reproduction fuel tanks  for mustangs are  not plated on inside like originals . this is why the corrode and  plug fuel systems . ethanol is very hard on old cars .

It absorbs water from the air /that settles in bottoms of tanks  and starts the rusting process.

It is also conductive  /

plain old 60s fuel was not .  this  means that the old style fuel guage  with 6 -9 volts on one side and a grounding float  made of brass in the fuel tank is the next weak link .  the float will corrode at the top of the fuel level on the float .

This is same issue with brass needle and seats /  they corrode and don't seal and next thing you know is you have an engine fire.

Rubber fuel lines / old /original last about 4 months.  cheap reproductions are no better .  you need fuel line designed for modern fuel injection   8 mm /10 mm  =sizes  for 5/16     and 3/8  vintage stuff.

( i still change hoses before car event season every year)

Anything the stuff touches it has bad effect on .

If cars are properly prepared  its less of a problem . ( its never not a problem !)

anything it touches must be  attended to. carbs/ fuel pump/ lines/ sending units/tanks
/hoses/ fuel cap seal /

I am a firm believer that most vintage car fires are caused by lack of attention to these issues .

If that fuel line splits going to the carburator it will pump fuel all over distibutor cap and  keep running  till the fire trucks  get there .
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: 69 GT350 Vert on June 25, 2023, 09:25:28 PM
Using Earls vapor guard EFI hose even on carburetor equipped cars will help.  It's rated for E85 and 225psi.  Regular rubber fuel hose allows gasoline vapors to stink up your garage if using ethanol fuel. 
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: texas swede on June 26, 2023, 07:44:00 AM
To me, ethanol makes no sense at all to use with gasoline. Here in Texas, I buy ethanol free 92 octane from Buckee's and then I put Seafoam in the tank to preserve the gas.
Texas Swede 
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: FL SAAC on June 26, 2023, 08:25:32 AM

"you pays your money you makes your choice"


The main difference between stabil and seafoam fuel stabilizers is that seafoam acts as both fuel stabilizer and fuel-system detergent. Seafoam is all alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) that is used as a solvent and a couple of drops of light 10-weight oil in it is added as a very light lubricant while Stabil has no ethanol. Stabil only acts as a fuel stabilizer. Seafoam acts as an oxygenator to help burn off and dissolve combustion chamber deposits like carbon bits and sludge while Stabil keeps the fuel fresh by extending the storage life of gasoline and helps prevent some kinds of ethanol-related fuel issues. 


Seafoam vs Stabil: Which Fuel Stabilizer is Better? - Autocornerd
https://www.autocornerd.com/seafoam-vs-stabil/
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: mickmate on June 30, 2023, 07:23:54 PM
Fuel cells have foam inside used as a baffle, they have a bladder or liner for the can, and they have gaskets between the filler and pickup plates. The ethanol eats the foam and puts it through your fuel system, it eats the bladder causing leaks and it eats the gaskets between the bladder and the can. Fuel cell manufacturers have limited or no warranty on the cells. They are good business for me, I make a lot of replacement tanks for the cells and some cells I convert to tanks. Good advice already on the additives.
Title: Re: Ethanol, gas
Post by: FL SAAC on June 30, 2023, 07:33:59 PM
If you are using a old style fuel cell, it would not be compatible with any ethanol fuel blend.

Having said that, if you are using a modern fuel cell read on

PRO CELL® FUEL CELLS
The Pro Cell's® unique, seamless coating design produces unmatched durability and safety in a racing fuel cell. Pro Cells® are designed specifically for use with hydrocarbon fuels but have been successfully used by top teams running ethanol blends up to and including E85. The Fuel Safe® Pro Cell® is the fuel cell of choice for top off road, road race and circle track racers around the globe.

Each complete Pro Cell® racing cell includes:

Ultra-tough, FIA-FT3 certified Pro Cell® bladder.
Aluminum or powder coated 20-gauge steel container with external mounting flange
Mil-Spec safety foam baffling minimizes fuel slosh and the potential for an explosion.
SF6X10 fill plate comes standard with a -6 pickup, -6 return, -6 rollover vent valve, fill valve
Aircraft grade nut ring and gasket
Fuel pickup assembly, factory installed
Limited 5-year manufacturer warranty
Recommended upgrades: surge tank, sending unit, lightweight aluminum can and more!
Approved for use in all major race sanctioning bodies. Meets SFI and FIA safety requirements.