Just like predicted
https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=19118.0
??
The current owner is collecting parts for the restoration, now that they feel the car has been "authenticated"
I invite anyone who thinks they have authenticated this car, to share their work on the forum.
Caveat Emptor
kool
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 05, 2023, 09:11:51 PM
The current owner is collecting parts for the restoration, now that they feel the car has been "authenticated"
I invite anyone who thinks they have authenticated this car, to share their work on the forum.
He may be second guessing the decision to be involved with the car at this point.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 06, 2023, 12:47:19 PM
He may be second guessing the decision to be involved with the car at this point.
The Holy Fail ??
Just re-watched the update and how the car was identified.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 06, 2023, 03:05:52 PM
Just re-watched the update and how the car was identified.
Can you post a link?
Process starts at 15:30
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TTeXtm9Ouos&pp=ygUVRGVubmlzIGNvbGxpbnMgU2hlbGJ5
It doesn't change the car was identified by the transmission and its still missing the vast majority of everything, but thats not stopping the restoration
Watch at 15:30 mark again
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SnnWvN0oK6w
So, they have a VIN off the transmission, they say "it's 1444" based on this, so now, how does that VIN change it's association to another car, a rarer car, a supercharged car no less? Again, if it turns out to be so, fantastic, yet for now, I have not seen hard proof that it is what they are now saying it is.
As for the rest, speaking with various SA employees over the years, the stories of CS personally taking orders for customers was nothing further from the truth. From their recollection, CS did not pick up the phone for a retail order, not even for a 427 or 289 FIA, heck, did not even want to speak with dealers placing orders, let alone a retail customer. Again, just my recollection of those conversations over the 40 or so years I had the pleasure of interacting with them.
Bill
This is my understanding
The VIN on the transmission was never 1444. Thats in the first video. It was simply a guess.
A youtuber viewer gave them a name, they connected the transmission number to the car by using that name which was in the Registry.
1477 is that car.
So now we are back to; is a roof and two quarter panels a car? (Or some variation of that)
How much has to survive for the car to exist?
I sold two "original" Paxton set ups to guys herein SAAC for real 65 and 67 paxton cars.
No date codes on any parts dennis bought, $3500. value?
carb is the only original piece, if it is?
BTW, what was said about the carb being correct, may not be why.
I personally have never assumed or argued serial numbers, nor will I ever do it.
Coralsnake & Bill,
YEP in my opinion also, nothing that has been presented documents it as a Shelby,
Roof and Qrts and other tid bits equal nothing , trans #'s the same case?
Just my own opinion from viewing the facts as an old dog.
DAVE M, I and others are curious as to what is now entered into the registry about this car , and under WHAT serial number (s) ?
Respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 07, 2023, 10:20:17 AM
I sold two "original" Paxton set ups to guys herein SAAC for real 65 and 67 paxton cars.
No date codes on any parts dennis bought, $3500. value?
carb is the only original piece, if it is?
BTW, what was said about the carb being correct, may not be why.
I personally have never assumed or argued serial numbers, nor will I ever do it.
Coralsnake & Bill,
YEP in my opinion also, nothing that has been presented documents it as a Shelby,
Roof and Qrts and other tid bits equal nothing , trans #'s the same case?
Just my own opinion from viewing the facts as an old dog.
DAVE M, I and others are curious as to what is now entered into the registry about this car , and under WHAT serial number (s) ?
Respectfully,
John
+1
Dave?
Pete wrote: "So now we are back to; is a roof and two quarter panels a car? (Or some variation of that)"
I agree, this is a troubling equation.
What if we adopt the same rules for "original" as the US Treasury does for damaged currency bills?
If you have more than 50% of the original bill, they will exchange it for a new one. 49%. = no go.
On a car, figuring out the 50.1% that justifies an "original" declaration will be more difficult to determine:
% by weight?
% by number of parts?
% of parts with VIN?
Thoughts?
Side oiler, you are being kind .
above >>
I personally have never assumed or argued serial numbers, nor will I ever do it.
Coralsnake & Bill,
YEP in my opinion also, nothing that has been presented documents it as a Shelby,
Roof and Qrts and other tid bits equal nothing , trans #'s the same case?
So >. Nothing equals nothing, our Golden rule at SAAC for all our own benefits >> is both numbers and history on 65-67 is required to authenticate a real Shelby
Wasn't there real serious problems quite a few years back on Eleanor's, can't remember why?
Respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 07, 2023, 10:34:57 PM
Side oiler, you are being kind .
above >>
I personally have never assumed or argued serial numbers, nor will I ever do it.
Coralsnake & Bill,
YEP in my opinion also, nothing that has been presented documents it as a Shelby,
Roof and Qrts and other tid bits equal nothing , trans #'s the same case?
So >. Nothing equals nothing, our Golden rule at SAAC for all our own benefits >> is both numbers and history on 65-67 is required to authenticate a real Shelby
Wasn't there real serious problems quite a few years back on Eleanor's, can't remember why?
Respectfully,
John
Respectfully I think it takes more than just numbers (if your referring to just VINs) and history. The letter that SAAC sends out to confirm a VIN match is an example of this since it basically states that the match alone does not confirm or validate a car. Plenty of examples of history and VIN's not equaling a real car IMHO
Others may and likely do have differing opinions :) If we didn't it would not be much of a discussion
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 07, 2023, 10:34:57 PM
Side oiler, you are being kind .
above >>
I personally have never assumed or argued serial numbers, nor will I ever do it.
Coralsnake & Bill,
YEP in my opinion also, nothing that has been presented documents it as a Shelby,
Roof and Qrts and other tid bits equal nothing , trans #'s the same case?
So >. Nothing equals nothing, our Golden rule at SAAC for all our own benefits >> is both numbers and history on 65-67 is required to authenticate a real Shelby
Wasn't there real serious problems quite a few years back on Eleanor's, can't remember why?
Respectfully,
John
John,
You know, I have the door and associated data tag for a 68 GT500 KR convertible that met it's demise back in the late 70's in upstate NY....It's already been reported to SAAC, and is noted in the registry....Theoretically, 100 years from now, someone might rebuild the car just off these parts and call it "real" , then tell the future SAAC registrar that the reports of it's demise were wrong all that time.
Bill
Bill,
You are spot on and so is J speegel.
In my opinion, both your thoughts are correct, and provable as doable by unscrupulous types over the decades.
Yep, a person can make an air car from fender well numbers and shelby plate, better with title to the car that was lost.
I have lived through such times with the harris car, a National magazine published a full 1/2 page article about a guy claiming his car may be the Harris car.
After an angry letter, they retracted.
A 1958 Ferrari full race TR that came from the same place the Harris came from, 3 cars ended up claiming ownership of a car worth millions.
How many Cobra's have twins ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wall art for a man cave, thats how I have advertised a 63 1/2 lightweight car, title, all plates and all stamped body/frame numbers.
Not mine, but I do try and sell it and PICK my words carefully.
Your KR is about in the same boat Bill, would you agree ?
DAVE, how is the mustang/car in question listed in the 67 registry, and under which number ?
Respectfully,
John
All so true.
The chassis and stamped serial number reigns supreme ,
Side oiler, those are real to the point statement/question.
Does the car we are discussing in question have the numbers ?
The Ferrai TR I mentioned, went to court three times, original chassis won by metallurgy tests >> to think I scarped mud off my feet on that chassis.
Respectfully,
John
This is as clear as mud. Hey I have the "real" rear bumper from a 66 Convertible along with an old registration an # plate. That's enuff right ::) . Crazy !
Grumpy,
Agreed 100% , it is crazy.
the plate is of concern.
Not on point, but years ago when I purchased a red 66 Shelby up your way.
I had a guy telling me he could get me the numbers etc off of a real 66 conv?
Which it was a Shelby converts number, best of my recollection.
I never tried verifying it at SAAC. I think I did mention it to Mr Vinny though.
I would doubt it is the same car, and you used the statement to prove a point on the 67 mustang in question ?
respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 08, 2023, 08:51:39 AMWall art for a man cave, thats how I have advertised a 63 1/2 lightweight car, title, all plates and all stamped body/frame numbers.
DAVE, how is the mustang/car in question listed in the 67 registry, and under which number ?
I personally know the guy who hauled one of Shelby's Cooper Monaco King Cobras to the land fill in San Fernando - yet both seem to still exist today......
I should buy you R code stuff - It's the closest I'll come to owning a real one.
What could the registry say - Transmission with # possibly from XXX Shelby located in 19?? - Mustang sheetmetal from firewall back claiming to be Shelby XXX was offered for sale in Texas? PS: date codes in sheetmetal are too late to be # claimed?
(https://www.saac.com/forum/gallery/8-080523163238.jpeg)
Can someone explain to me how the 1967 brake vent hose interfaces with the two slots in the quarter panel ? Is it small enough to fit in the "slot" ?
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 08, 2023, 04:34:08 PM
Can someone explain to me how the 1967 brake vent hose interfaces with the two slots in the quarter panel ? Is it small enough to fit in the "slot" ?
Maybe a picture of the interior of a scoop and where the duct is located will help explain. The end for the duct and the hose pass under the center horizontal brace shown in the picture you posted
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-080523171448-186811265.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-050518155619.jpeg)
Got it thanks!
The hose didn't have to be large given it did nothing to cool brakes .It was strictly for looks and to technically comply as functional initially in production.
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 08, 2023, 08:51:39 AM
Bill,
You are spot on and so is J speegel.
John,
With all that is going on with you, glad I could make you laugh today. I know how much you want that KR convertible door, but I can't let it go right now. I will think hard on your Intermeccanica Italia, if you could hold off till my lo-cal swap (6-8 months), perhaps I can swing it then if SWMBO will get onboard. :)
Bill
I did forget to ask if I get the Carroll Shelby signed glove box door in the deal,>>> ha
You did cheer me up Bill, always a pleasure my friend !
john
I must say that the patina on that qrt shot above, is far different even now, than when it was all flat black in the early pictures Coralsnake posted.
I am not sure what they expect to gain from this mustang ?
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 08, 2023, 10:19:28 PM
I am not sure what they expect to gain from this mustang ?
Notoriety, greed (greed makes good people do questionable things), because they feel they can, free advertising, maybe even self promotion for their names and their business brand(s), maybe just for the footnote that will live on forever after they sadly pass away one day, we may never know. What we do know right now, like the "Shelby in a block" (adult size paperweight), or the door/dataplate/etc I have for what is left for a certain 68 KR convertible, is that you cannot make a car like this into an original vintage Shelby, no matter who gets involved, or how much money they throw at it.
Just my personal opinion and two cents worth on this subject.
Bill
PS: I'm serious about the Italia 8)
I will give the benefit the doubt in saying it started out as truly wanting to identify the car. However when you cross over to rebuilding it it becomes something else.
This is the poster child for too much is gone
coralsnake,
I and I would say almost all here share your post.
Too much is gone, is being too kind.
Bill, I think your right, showmanship and greed may just wel play parts.
Notoriety >>>> WRONG KIND IN MY OPINION
Respectfully,
John
Quote from: Harris Speedster on May 08, 2023, 10:47:10 AM
Grumpy,
Agreed 100% , it is crazy.
the plate is of concern.
Not on point, but years ago when I purchased a red 66 Shelby up your way.
I had a guy telling me he could get me the numbers etc off of a real 66 conv?
Which it was a Shelby converts number, best of my recollection.
I never tried verifying it at SAAC. I think I did mention it to Mr Vinny though.
John
The Blue car sat in a barn/garage for 40+ years. A few people knew about it. I was told a lot buy guys that had friends who owned one to. ya ya ya.. thats it. Oh I think he wants to sell it to. :o
Grumpy,
Perhaps Collins will get to it.
The real Holy Grail !
John