Originally a white-with-blue-stripes '65 Shelby, car #48 was pulled and repainted in Hertz black and gold for presentation to Hertz rental company. The car eventually was pressed into rental service in the New York area before being sold to the public after the program ended. The whereabouts of the car today are unknown, but it would be the only carryover '65 Shelby in the Hertz lineup.
Where are you ?
.
# 048
# 048
could this be car #048 in the earliest Hertz advertising ?
This is why we think this prototype Shelby Hertz # 048 is extremely valuable :
First prototype presented to the Hertz Corporation in November 1965 for their Herzt Rent a Racer program
This commences the Ford Shelby Hertz program
First Shelby to be converted into a Hertz rental car
First carryover for 1966
This is number 1 of the total 1,001 1966 GTHs
First Hertz four speed car
Was originally white, repainted to the Hertz black and gold colors
Should have all the particular items of all 1965s but is a 1966 Hertz
Did we miss anything to make it the most valuable ?
Again all others, move over if this unicorn is ever found and goes to auction
This car is not a carryover car. Carryover cars were part of the order specifically to extend the ability of Shelby American to stay in production while the factory was not able to deliver cars to build as Shelby GT350s. As someone who posts here often you would think that you would be one of the people trying to avoid nonsensical hype, but no hear you are starting a fire, fanning the flames with inaccuracies and yelling fire.
As 1965 GT350 #48 it was reworked into a Shelby Hertz prototype....but not a carryover car.
Hype, the car is cool as the Hertz prototype, you don't need to add any more hype to it's Pedigree.
John
Quote from: JohnSlack on January 26, 2023, 07:58:42 PM
This car is not a carryover car. Carryover cars were part of the order specifically to extend the ability of Shelby American to stay in production while the factory was not able to deliver cars to build as Shelby GT350s. As someone who posts here often you would think that you would be one of the people trying to avoid nonsensical hype, but no hear you are starting a fire, fanning the flames with inaccuracies and yelling fire.
As 1965 GT350 #48 it was reworked into a Shelby Hertz prototype....but not a carryover car.
Hype, the car is cool as the Hertz prototype, you don't need to add any more hype to it's Pedigree.
Maybe "he" bought it in Miami and plans to Mecum it off for the big bucks?
John
This is what I adds, for some reason I put it in the wrong place:
Maybe "he" bought it in Miami and plans to Mecum it off for the big bucks?
For the record – a carryover is a car that started life as a 1965 Mustang chassis and was transformed at Shelby American into a 1966 GT350. The first 252 1966 GT350s fit into that description. That would be 6S001 through 6S252.
Also for the record, all carryovers are 1966 GT350s – not 1965.
So, in addition to being a special Hertz prototype, 6S048 is a 1966 GT350 carryover (albeit the Hertz version of the GT350). It was ordered from Ford by Shelby American on the same DSO as my 6S087 and 65 other cars. It was pulled at random from that batch to build into the first Hertz prototype.
How do I know that? Because I've been studying those 252 cars for 45 years. At one time those cars were referred to as leftover 65's, 65 1/2,'s, crossovers, change-overs, and early 66's among other names. I and the Carryover Owners Group were instrumental in getting the automotive community to unite on the term carryover, as it seemed to most accurately reflect the history of those special cars. If you'd like to learn more we have a web site:
www.CarryoverGT350.com
The "Unique Features" page is the result of my decades of research into these cars.
Over the years I've learned a lot about these cars, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know it all. So if you think I'm wrong let's discuss it. If your presentation is strong enough I'll admit my error and give you credit for teaching me something. I'm always ready to learn something new, especially when it involves carryovers.
Steve
My apologies to all, I misread the original post and incorrectly interpreted the post from FLSAAC to be discussing 5S048 as a carryover which is obviously not the case. So again I apologize since he was obviously referring to 6S048.
John
Perfectly understandable, John. Especially since the very first sentence that FL SAAC posted on this topic was, "Originally a white-with-blue-stripes '65 Shelby, car #48 was pulled and repainted in Hertz black and gold for presentation to Hertz rental company." Clearly indicating 5S048. I just assumed that "'65"was a typo on his part after reading the rest of his posts.
Either way, I'm happy you know what a carryover is and are willing to stand up for them when you spot perceived misinformation. THANKS!
Steve
Quote from: SFM6S087 on January 27, 2023, 01:33:28 AM
Perfectly understandable, John. Especially since the very first sentence that FL SAAC posted on this topic was, "Originally a white-with-blue-stripes '65 Shelby, car #48 was pulled and repainted in Hertz black and gold for presentation to Hertz rental company." Clearly indicating 5S048. I just assumed that "'65"was a typo on his part after reading the rest of his posts.
Either way, I'm happy you know what a carryover is and are willing to stand up for them when you spot perceived misinformation. THANKS!
Steve
I do indeed like the special features of the carryover cars, very much.
John
Quote from: JohnSlack on January 26, 2023, 07:58:42 PM
This car is not a carryover car. Carryover cars were part of the order specifically to extend the ability of Shelby American to stay in production while the factory was not able to deliver cars to build as Shelby GT350s. As someone who posts here often you would think that you would be one of the people trying to avoid nonsensical hype, but no hear you are starting a fire, fanning the flames with inaccuracies and yelling fire.
As 1965 GT350 #48 it was reworked into a Shelby Hertz prototype....but not a carryover car.
Hype, the car is cool as the Hertz prototype, you don't need to add any more hype to it's Pedigree.
John
good morning John,
FYI
" The first 252 1966 GT350s are known as "Carry-over" or "Left over" cars as they are 1965 chassis built into 1966 model year cars by Shelby, and as a result, a unique blend of 1965 and 1966 features. Today these carry over cars are the most desirable 1966 production GT350s and have a devout following. "
Hagerty
1965-66 Shelby GT350 Hagerty Media
https://www.hagerty.com/media/buying-and-selling/your-handy-1965-66-shelby-gt350-buyers-guide/#:~:text=The%20first%20252%201966%20GT350s,and%20have%20a%20devout%20following.
I admit I do not know that much about the Carry-Over Cars so I have Several questions about the Carry-Overs:
Were the VIN's swapped to 66 Vin's and by Who?
Were the 252 Carry-Overs at the Ford Manufacture Lot and the VIN's swapped BEFORE being shipped to SA?
The 65's had Shelby Wood Steering Wheels and the 66 had Pony Plastic Steering Wheels, which did the Carry-Overs have?
Did SA switch out the 65 Dash Pod for the 66 Tach?
Do the Carry-Overs have the 65 Seats?
Are the 1970 Shelby's also considered Carry-Over Cars?
Interesting website
I guess Ford has stopped suing people for trademark infringement?
Quote from: SFM6S087 on January 27, 2023, 12:04:18 AM
For the record – a carryover is a car that started life as a 1965 Mustang chassis and was transformed at Shelby American into a 1966 GT350. The first 252 1966 GT350s fit into that description. That would be 6S001 through 6S252.
Also for the record, all carryovers are 1966 GT350s – not 1965.
So, in addition to being a special Hertz prototype, 6S048 is a 1966 GT350 carryover (albeit the Hertz version of the GT350). It was ordered from Ford by Shelby American on the same DSO as my 6S087 and 65 other cars. It was pulled at random from that batch to build into the first Hertz prototype.
How do I know that? Because I've been studying those 252 cars for 45 years. At one time those cars were referred to as leftover 65's, 65 1/2,'s, crossovers, change-overs, and early 66's among other names. I and the Carryover Owners Group were instrumental in getting the automotive community to unite on the term carryover, as it seemed to most accurately reflect the history of those special cars. If you'd like to learn more we have a web site:
www.CarryoverGT350.com
The "Unique Features" page is the result of my decades of research into these cars.
Over the years I've learned a lot about these cars, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know it all. So if you think I'm wrong let's discuss it. If your presentation is strong enough I'll admit my error and give you credit for teaching me something. I'm always ready to learn something new, especially when it involves carryovers.
Steve
just reviewed your page and my hats off to you, outstanding !
More information on this "unicorn"
Shelby Mustang History: 1966 GT350H The Starting Grid
https://www.diyford.com/shelby-mustang-history-1966-gt350h-starting-grid/
1966 Shelby Mustang GT350H
https://www.supercars.net/blog/1966-shelby-mustang-gt350h/
Quote from: SFM6S087 on January 27, 2023, 12:04:18 AM
For the record – a carryover is a car that started life as a 1965 Mustang chassis and was transformed at Shelby American into a 1966 GT350. The first 252 1966 GT350s fit into that description. That would be 6S001 through 6S252.
Also for the record, all carryovers are 1966 GT350s – not 1965.
So, in addition to being a special Hertz prototype, 6S048 is a 1966 GT350 carryover (albeit the Hertz version of the GT350). It was ordered from Ford by Shelby American on the same DSO as my 6S087 and 65 other cars. It was pulled at random from that batch to build into the first Hertz prototype.
How do I know that? Because I've been studying those 252 cars for 45 years. At one time those cars were referred to as leftover 65's, 65 1/2,'s, crossovers, change-overs, and early 66's among other names. I and the Carryover Owners Group were instrumental in getting the automotive community to unite on the term carryover, as it seemed to most accurately reflect the history of those special cars. If you'd like to learn more we have a web site:
www.CarryoverGT350.com
The "Unique Features" page is the result of my decades of research into these cars.
Over the years I've learned a lot about these cars, but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know it all. So if you think I'm wrong let's discuss it. If your presentation is strong enough I'll admit my error and give you credit for teaching me something. I'm always ready to learn something new, especially when it involves carryovers.
Steve
What's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
Quote from: 427hunter on June 05, 2023, 10:57:36 AMWhat's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
2 entirely different reasons. In 1965/6 the cars were selling so fast SA ordered extra cars to assure they would have enough on hand to keep their assembly line running while San Jose was shut down for the model change. In 1969 they were selling so poorly that Ford was left with a glut of them and re-tagged already completed cars as 1970s. I imagine it had everything to do with dealer contracts that required "new model" year cars not last years leftovers. We'll see this played out again with the 1,000s of 2021/2 F150's that Ford still has stored with no electronics in them. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/45000-incomplete-ford-f-150-models-clog-kentucky-speedway/
Quote
What's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
If you removed the Shelby Tag under the Hood, did it show a 65 Mustang VIN# or a 66 VIN#? I am betting a 1965 VIN#.
Quote from: tesgt350 on June 05, 2023, 02:18:46 PM
If you removed the Shelby Tag under the Hood, did it show a 65 Mustang VIN# or a 66 VIN#? I am betting a 1965 VIN#.
Hope you bet a large amount, you win. They all had a 5R09K...... VIN.
Hopefully it is safely tucked away in someone's shed.
I would love to find it!
Just think about some of the recent significant finds, Little Red, Bullet. They were all hidden in an plain sight - sort of. But being that #48 was in the northeast, and if it sat outside all these years, that might be so good..
Hope someone finds it.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 05, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on June 05, 2023, 10:57:36 AMWhat's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
2 entirely different reasons. In 1965/6 the cars were selling so fast SA ordered extra cars to assure they would have enough on hand to keep their assembly line running while San Jose was shut down for the model change. In 1969 they were selling so poorly that Ford was left with a glut of them and re-tagged already completed cars as 1970s. I imagine it had everything to do with dealer contracts that required "new model" year cars not last years leftovers. We'll see this played out again with the 1,000s of 2021/2 F150's that Ford still has stored with no electronics in them. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/45000-incomplete-ford-f-150-models-clog-kentucky-speedway/
What part of the word "story" and "misunderstanding" did you not understand? I was talking about what people said about the carryover cars not the reality of the situation.
Quote from: tesgt350 on June 05, 2023, 02:18:46 PM
Quote
What's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
If you removed the Shelby Tag under the Hood, did it show a 65 Mustang VIN# or a 66 VIN#? I am betting a 1965 VIN#.
Of course they have 65 vins but I guess you did not understand that they were sold as 66's (with 66 features) not 65's?
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 05, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on June 05, 2023, 10:57:36 AMWhat's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
2 entirely different reasons. In 1965/6 the cars were selling so fast SA ordered extra cars to assure they would have enough on hand to keep their assembly line running while San Jose was shut down for the model change. In 1969 they were selling so poorly that Ford was left with a glut of them and re-tagged already completed cars as 1970s. I imagine it had everything to do with dealer contracts that required "new model" year cars not last years leftovers. We'll see this played out again with the 1,000s of 2021/2 F150's that Ford still has stored with no electronics in them. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/45000-incomplete-ford-f-150-models-clog-kentucky-speedway/
Major reason Ford re-tagged some '69s into 1970s was because of emissions (esp for Ca.). Also, the 1970 change overs on the ign key from the dash to the steering column. Dealers do not want to sell unused 'last years' models next to the then current new models. These are just a few examples. Fast forward to those 2021/2022 F series trucks...can't sell them as 'new'. Those will most likely be crushed, and considered a loss.
Quote from: 427hunter on June 06, 2023, 07:39:18 PM
Quote from: tesgt350 on June 05, 2023, 02:18:46 PM
Quote
What's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
If you removed the Shelby Tag under the Hood, did it show a 65 Mustang VIN# or a 66 VIN#? I am betting a 1965 VIN#.
Of course they have 65 vins but I guess you did not understand that they were sold as 66's (with 66 features) not 65's?
I totally understood. I was referring to how some are saying that #48 is not considered a Carry Over Car.
Quote from: 427hunter on June 06, 2023, 07:39:18 PM
Quote from: tesgt350 on June 05, 2023, 02:18:46 PM
Quote
What's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
If you removed the Shelby Tag under the Hood, did it show a 65 Mustang VIN# or a 66 VIN#? I am betting a 1965 VIN#.
Of course they have 65 vins but I guess you did not understand that they were sold as 66's (with 66 features) not 65's?
Every year Shelby had cars that were sold well into the next model year(my friend's 68 GT350 was sold in May of 1969). While many were "unsold" cars I've come to the belief from research that Ford built them out knowing they were going to rebadge and change emissions to market as 70s. One such thought was an email correspondence with Claude Dubois who sold my 70 new. When he heard of the program ending and that was his main source of income he flew to Detroit in the spring of 69 and ordered a bunch of "70s" so he would have cars to sell. Claude went on to create the Shelby Europa in 1971. Another is the fact they were built to the end of production. So instead of filtering "old" model year cars with the program ending they decided to build and retrofit to sell as 1970 models but had to be all converted before Jan1, 1970(lock steering column law).
Quote from: crossboss on June 06, 2023, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 05, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on June 05, 2023, 10:57:36 AMWhat's funny is that years ago the story that carryover cars were leftover 65's came to be because of what ford did with the 1969 gt500's and 350' that were unsold - selling them as 70's. I think this misunderstanding has kept the value on the carryover cars higher then if people understood that they not 65 Shelby's but rather just the start of the 66 model year at Shelby.
2 entirely different reasons. In 1965/6 the cars were selling so fast SA ordered extra cars to assure they would have enough on hand to keep their assembly line running while San Jose was shut down for the model change. In 1969 they were selling so poorly that Ford was left with a glut of them and re-tagged already completed cars as 1970s. I imagine it had everything to do with dealer contracts that required "new model" year cars not last years leftovers. We'll see this played out again with the 1,000s of 2021/2 F150's that Ford still has stored with no electronics in them. https://www.motorbiscuit.com/45000-incomplete-ford-f-150-models-clog-kentucky-speedway/
Major reason Ford re-tagged some '69s into 1970s was because of emissions (esp for Ca.). Also, the 1970 change overs on the ign key from the dash to the steering column. Dealers do not want to sell unused 'last years' models next to the then current new models. These are just a few examples. Fast forward to those 2021/2022 F series trucks...can't sell them as 'new'. Those will most likely be crushed, and considered a loss.
For the record 1970 models have the key in the dash. Cars had to be fully changed over by Jan1,1970 to skirt the lock column issue. Emissions were updated also as you said for all 50 states plus the gas tanks emissions for Calif.
"For the record 1970 models have the key in the dash. Cars had to be fully changed over by Jan1,1970 to skirt the lock column issue. Emissions were updated also as you said for all 50 states plus the gas tanks emissions for Calif.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:50:48 AM by shelbymann1970 »"
*
Here is a crazy question that maybe someone can answer........ There is a Cost to doing all of the changes to the 69 Shelby's to turn them into 70's. Would Ford had been better off to just leave them all as 69's and drop the price?
Quote from: tesgt350 on June 07, 2023, 08:05:46 AM
"For the record 1970 models have the key in the dash. Cars had to be fully changed over by Jan1,1970 to skirt the lock column issue. Emissions were updated also as you said for all 50 states plus the gas tanks emissions for Calif.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:50:48 AM by shelbymann1970 »"
*
Here is a crazy question that maybe someone can answer........ There is a Cost to doing all of the changes to the 69 Shelby's to turn them into 70's. Would Ford had been better off to just leave them all as 69's and drop the price?
Cost? The guy painting the hood stripes was the resident painter at Kar Kraft. Front spoilers? Nominal. GT350s? Dist change. GT500s dist modified and a 70 carb change. A few Calif cars evap emissions. Vin change on the dash. Maybe since they wanted them as 70 models it was cheaper to do the changes than build new 70 models since the 351W 4V went away they would have to use the B2 or the new 351C. Like I said if you read my post at least Claude ordered 70s from Ford so at least 1 dealer wanted 70 models and not "left over" 69s. There were some really good discounts on left over 68s when my friend's 68 GT350 vert was sold in May of 1969. A question could be asked how many left over 68s hurt 69 sales? How many leftover 67s hurt 68 sales? And so on.
The first 1966 GTH
Everyone always talks about these one of one cars, the Super Snake, Mr. Styles 0139, Green Hornet etc.
This particular GTH is probably and should be on this list also.
Its one of the most valuable Shelby's of all time that's not really on the "regular guys" radar screen.
But those in the know, do have it on theirs.
Again it is right up there or should be with the all the other really significant Shelby's ever made.
Quote from: shelbymann1970 on June 07, 2023, 06:45:39 AMEvery year Shelby had cars that were sold well into the next model year(my friend's 68 GT350 was sold in May of 1969). While many were "unsold" cars I've come to the belief from research that Ford built them out knowing they were going to rebadge and change emissions to market as 70s.
Not True - Dealers had left over cars NOT Ford. Dealer contracts call for "new" model year cars they had no outlet at the time for getting rid of last years inventory. Dealer allotments also called for X # of each model. With about 600 already built and unshipped Shelbys sitting around the bean counters said for a few bucks we can change them and call them new 1970 cars. I have always discounted the stories of Ford going to dealers and swapping VIN on dealer lots. Ford no longer had anything to do with the car once it left the hauler at the dealers.
Also don't forget these cars were basically the property of a wholly owned Ford subsidiary Shelby Automotive that was being closed for not being profitable. All the assets had to be maximized for the good of the stockholder.
I can't see Ford taking the hit scrapping the current leftover trucks. I suspect they will go to some 3rd world country where they don't care about model year. Or maybe Ford will donate them to places like the Red Cross, etc for charity work and take the goodwill for a stock price bump.
As an aside to leftover cars. Some dealers held on to the "flashy" cars as showroom bait to get casual lookers in the front door and sell them a car. Remember at this time dealers were small neighborhood establishments that dad wandered through after getting his haircut on Saturday morning. Today people visit the giant auto malls to buy not look at cars. My sister got her 68 Cal Special in late April of 69. The dealer pulled it out of the showroom that week and offered it for sale with a big discount.