Hi All,
What are the correct Assembly Line part number on the connecting rods for early 67 Shelby GT500 please?
From my knowledge and what I have seen in the years C6AE-D with the 19/32 nut.
I am seeing that there are C6AE-C and C7AE-B as well.
I never saw C6AE-D?
The ones I have taken apart had C7AE-B rods with big bolts like any 428 would have. Same basic rod as a 390, just has the bigger bolts.
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 31, 2022, 12:34:06 PM
The ones I have taken apart had C7AE-B rods with big bolts like any 428 would have. Same basic rod as a 390, just has the bigger bolts.
On early 428's you found C7AE-B please?
C6AE-C engineering number cast into the rods.
It's got the small bolts and really is just a 390 rod.
If you are rebuilding use a better aftermarket rod.
The C7AE-B is a service substitute. I had one set where they were mixed.
Quote from: Kyle on July 31, 2022, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Royce Peterson on July 31, 2022, 12:34:06 PM
The ones I have taken apart had C7AE-B rods with big bolts like any 428 would have. Same basic rod as a 390, just has the bigger bolts.
On early 428's you found C7AE-B please?
On '67 Shelby 428's. 1966 428's I have had a couple blocks that were stripped before I bought them so no idea there.
Still not shure what were they from factory?
C6AE-C or C7AE-B on a 428 cast date 1966 September?
Quote from: Kyle on October 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Still not shure what were they from factory?
C6AE-C or C7AE-B on a 428 cast date 1966 September?
It could be either depending on the build date. C7's probably don't start showing up until April or May of '67 but no one that I know of has attempted to document that.
The most significant weak spot in the engine is the connecting rod. Some think that 652cfm carbs v 715's were done because of the bad rods and to "keep them from coming through the side of the block".
No one starting from a scratch build is going to use the stock rods.
What did the carbs have to do with them blowing up?
Roy
Quote from: Kyle on October 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Still not shure what were they from factory?
C6AE-C or C7AE-B on a 428 cast date 1966 September?
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 09, 2022, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: Kyle on October 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Still not shure what were they from factory?
C6AE-C or C7AE-B on a 428 cast date 1966 September?
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
Quote from: TA Coupe on October 09, 2022, 05:36:20 PM
What did the carbs have to do with them blowing up?
Roy
Just something that Randy said to me about limiting the potential rpm of the engines by limiting the carb capacity. I had never thought about it in that way before.
The quote is something like, "to keep the rods from sticking through the block, they limited the size of the carbs". ;)
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 09, 2022, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: Kyle on October 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Still not shure what were they from factory?
C6AE-C or C7AE-B on a 428 cast date 1966 September?
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Thanks a lot.
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 09, 2022, 09:36:47 PM
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 09, 2022, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: Kyle on October 09, 2022, 02:53:50 PM
Still not shure what were they from factory?
C6AE-C or C7AE-B on a 428 cast date 1966 September?
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
I have the same question ?
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 09, 2022, 09:36:47 PM
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
No I don't and the amount in my survey is small so please don't base hard choices solely on my data IMHO in this subject
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 10, 2022, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 09, 2022, 09:36:47 PM
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
No I don't and the amount in my survey is small so please don't base hard choices solely on my data IMHO in this subject
[/quote]
C6AE-C are small bolts.
Quote from: shelbydoug on October 12, 2022, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 10, 2022, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 09, 2022, 09:36:47 PM
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
No I don't and the amount in my survey is small so please don't base hard choices solely on my data IMHO in this subject
C6AE-C are small bolts.
[/quote]
Not all of them are. The '66PI solid lifter engines had C6AE-C casting rods with 13/32 bolts.
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 12, 2022, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on October 12, 2022, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 10, 2022, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 09, 2022, 09:36:47 PM
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
No I don't and the amount in my survey is small so please don't base hard choices solely on my data IMHO in this subject
C6AE-C are small bolts.
Not all of them are. The '66PI solid lifter engines had C6AE-C casting rods with 13/32 bolts.
[/quote]
A non-Shelby application as rare as a Druid priest at a meeting of the Ecumenical Council in Rome.
This is an academic discussion only worthy of it's own chapter in an historical text book. Not an instruction manual on how to build a 67 GT500 428 PI.
Quote from: shelbydoug on October 13, 2022, 07:56:02 AM
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 12, 2022, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on October 12, 2022, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: J_Speegle on October 10, 2022, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: 430dragpack on October 09, 2022, 09:36:47 PM
Based on my records and the examples I've documented - C6AE-C
Do you have notes on large rod bolts or small?
No I don't and the amount in my survey is small so please don't base hard choices solely on my data IMHO in this subject
C6AE-C are small bolts.
Not all of them are. The '66PI solid lifter engines had C6AE-C casting rods with 13/32 bolts.
A non-Shelby application as rare as a Druid priest at a meeting of the Ecumenical Council in Rome.
This is an academic discussion only worthy of it's own chapter in an historical text book. Not an instruction manual on how to build a 67 GT500 428 PI.
[/quote]
Kyle is building an engine and is asking for instructions. 😉
Then why was the big 66PI balancer used if it didn't use the big bolt rods, that has precedent set by the 406/427 engines using both together in high performance applications. Just take out the 66PI solid cam, slap the 390GT heads on and C7ZX intake on and run it! The 66PI probably is the same rarity as the 67 GT500.
I think we're confusing part numbers with casting numbers. The casting could've either been machined for the large or the small rod bolts. The part number would designate the difference
Quote from: TLea on October 13, 2022, 01:05:23 PM
I think we're confusing part numbers with casting numbers. The casting could've either been machined for the large or the small rod bolts. The part number would designate the difference
That is arguably true but the issue is that there is no way to positively pin the Ford part number on an item like this. Only the Engineering number.
There is no ink stamp or factory tag ever applied to them as far as I have seen.
The original factory assembly tag applied to the right cylinder head would indicate the Ford engine assembly code which should, if original, indicate the rod that was in the engine from Ford.
Good luck with that since that is for the entire engine assembly and would not deal with individual components.
Both versions of the rod definitely existed but to this day I have never seen another identification on the rods other then the engineering number.
Finding a set of these rods with the larger bolts there is no way now to tell if those bolts were changed out or are original to the assembly themselves.
What I saw, probably as a Johnny Come Lately, was a service tag on the over the counter replacement part. As with other Ford Service parts, they were not necessarily the "as installed assembly line part" and if memory serves, was a C7 engineering id on the rod.
This to me is all just an academic discussion in futility? What's the point now?
The only point of all this is so the poster can get the correct rods. If he's looking and asking we would assume that he does not have his originals therefore he just needs to find the correct engineering number and measure the rod bolt diameter and that should satisfy his request. The farther benefit is to inform that the engineering number does not necessarily mean it is the correct rod and it is up to him to discern the difference
Quote from: TLea on October 15, 2022, 07:34:05 AM
The only point of all this is so the poster can get the correct rods. If he's looking and asking we would assume that he does not have his originals therefore he just needs to find the correct engineering number and measure the rod bolt diameter and that should satisfy his request. The farther benefit is to inform that the engineering number does not necessarily mean it is the correct rod and it is up to him to discern the difference
Yes I need to know the correct Assembly Line cast numbers and the size of the bolts.
My opinion is early PI would have C6AE C w 13/32 rod bolts. Kyle I wouldn't sweat if you only find the 3/8 version. Any competent machine shop can handle the change to larger bolts.
But then what would the correct nuts and bolts be?
Roy
13/32
Thanks a lot Tim.