Was the Shoulder Harness an option in the 69 and 70's or was it required in certain models? Thanks Steve
Quote from: Steve Z on May 31, 2018, 09:51:14 AM
Was the Shoulder Harness an option in the 69 and 70's or was it required in certain models? Thanks Steve
The shoulder harnesses were part of the Shelby and were not an option.
Does that mean all 69 and 70's came with them? coupe or convertible?
All real Shelbys ;)
I thought by 1969 that Ford was basically in charge of the Shelby program and CS had stepped away? Steve. (Still learning)
There were three entities involved in the program. Ford, Shelby and AOSmith. I think its fair to say all had an equal amount of power. This complicated relationship would eventually lead to the end of the Shelby program when AOSmith decided not to build the 1970 models. Each party blamed someone else when problems arose. AOSmith was upset they did not receive clear direction, resolution or payments. To say Shelby Automotive was not involved is not correct. Shelby did not end the Shelby program, AOSmith did.
Thank your the clarification. Always learning something new from the Forum. Steve
I think Shelby was every bit as involved as the earlier years. Plans for the 70 and 71 model years were well underway. It was Shelby engineering that directed a lot of the program.
Quote from: Coralsnake on May 31, 2018, 11:51:58 AM
I think Shelby was every bit as involved as the earlier years. Plans for the 70 and 71 model years were well underway. It was Shelby engineering that directed a lot of the program.
Thanks for the clarification Pete. I get tired of those who say 68-70 are not real Shelbys as Shelby wasn't involved(??). BTW I was not aware of AO Smith ending the program. Always learning. the "story" I heard all too often was the $$$$ from the B9 program hidden in the cost of the Shelby program plus the competition of other models(Mach and bosses) had Shelby end the program. How did you come about learning of the correct history on this? Thanks. Gary
In a previous post , it was commented a Real Shelby? Are you stating that all the 69's were not built at the A.O. Smith facility?
All 1969s were built by AO Smith.
The comment was made because the original poster implied someone had a car without the retractors. If you have a 1969 built without retractors it wasnt built by AOSmith (ie., not real)
OK, if AOSmith was the culprit, and Shelby Engineering was already working on 70 and 71.
Why is it "we" don't have info as to the equipment, or drawings of the cars, they must have had that, with the lead time involved??????????????
Quote from: CSX 3183 on June 02, 2018, 11:23:47 PM
OK, if AOSmith was the culprit, and Shelby Engineering was already working on 70 and 71.
Why is it "we" don't have info as to the equipment, or drawings of the cars, they must have had that, with the lead time involved??????????????
"We" are still missing lots of design information on the earlier cars as well. In fact, we don't even know what we are missing because we have never seen it.
It also has to do with the way that the cars have been covered over the years.
To say that this was just SA on the Shelby's in the beginning is in my opinion, misstatement.
This was Ford's project all the way and it was just "assigned to Shelby".
There was such short notice to market the car in the beginning that it was purely a priority basis of getting the car "ready to race" and discovery as to what the "street market" was.
Market identification was really "in discovery" as was Ford's experimentation as to how to produce small runs of "higher quality identifiable vehicles".
Smith just had a different concept and bid on building a different concept.
Their profitability required a fast turn over of vehicles and was getting crushed by the 600 pound gorilla in the room, Ford.
The way Ford deals with special vehicles now is considerably different but you can still see the general concept.
I don't think any of their special vehicles were ever profitable? It's just a question of how much cost they were comfortable with in bringing a vehicle to market.
The current GT's are probably the first cars that even come close to breaking even as to what it cost them to build them.
The others were all "loss leaders". All of them.
Don't blame the discontinuance on Smith or Shelby. It was Ford that got tired of the project and wanted to move on to something else.
Their new toy/shiny object was the Pantera. Another loss leader.
Remember, this basically all started in OUR lifetime because Ford wanted to crush Ferrari. That is the key element of EVERYTHING here. It's ALL FORD money. All of it.
...and it wouldn't hurt if they squashed GM, Mopar and anyone else in other racing either. Just icing on the cake.
You can credit all of the winning race drivers if you want to but if FORD didn't bankroll it all you could have gone racing with Herbie the love bug. You needed a winning vehicle to drive first.
IF someone asked me for an example of how "trickle down economics works", I'd pick this one. An eccentric billionaire effectively "investing" in projects that benefited millions.
I need clarification as to whether or not it is still "trickling down"?
QuoteOk, if AOSmith was the culprit, and Shelby Engineering was already working on 70 and 71.
Why is it "we" don't have info as to the equipment, or drawings of the cars, they must have had that, with the lead time involved??????????????
You mean because you havent seen it must not exist? It does.
I havent seen a letter from Ford saying we are shutting things down due to cost. I havent seen a resignation letter from Shelby saying "Im going to Africa in five years"
I have seen plently of documents dealing with 1970 and beyond...efi, 4 wheel disc brakes, discontinuing the GT 500, etc....
That was not my inference, simply put, if there was work being done, and you have information that the program was supposed to carry on, it would be nice to see/read all of that, so we can all say " boy, it's a crying shame that it all ended, just look what was in the pipeline"
I own 602 and it's a (DSO) Shelby marketing car and sent to the J. Dugan advertising agency by SA. It was ordered 12/09/68 and delivered 01/29/69 and if memory serves me right Shelby was working with the 69 prototypes late in September of 68; so very short the lead time to production, done on the fly to get the cars out.
So just looking at this time line tells me that doing things in a rush was the way things were done and the "pipeline" must have been very short :D.
P.S. just finished a three year restoration on 602 which took it's first trip to super car Sunday in Woodland hills today!
It was Ford that contracted with A.O.Smith to actually build the cars. If that contract ended, it was Ford's decision to not put the cars on the main assembly line or find another sub-contractor.
That is easy to say I suppose because there may not have been anyone else interested in building the cars or anyone capable of having an off site assembly line like Smith could?
Consider that Kar Kraft was interested in building the Boss'9's but either wasn't interested, not offered, or not seen as having the capacity to build the Shelby's.
It's unfortunate that there is little documentation on what Kar Kraft or even someone like Bud Moore was developing that we never saw.
SAAC's concentration was on what was being built by Shelby in LA. There was more to it then that.
In those days, I'm not sure everyone knew where to look and to put things together into a larger picture? Probably that was Ford's plan considering that a lot of the info was proprietary?
Or to say, oh my gosh Im glad it ended?
Normal planning was at least 24 months out.here is a January 68 picture, sp you you know work was being done on the 1969s in 1967
(http://www.thecoralsnake.com/claymodel.jpg)
Ugly wheels. :o
It's unfortunate that there is little documentation on what Kar Kraft or even someone like Bud Moore was developing that we never saw.
AAR too...
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/134-040618080534.jpeg)
Agreed. ;)