Maybe there is some history about it already here. Description sounds like a "interesting" story.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353769549435?hash=item525e4eee7b:g:nuIAAOSwj8xhkX9M
Has an assigned VIN that attempts to mimic the initial COB/COX numbers, but uses a zero in place of the letter O. Was never built as a Cobra by AC Cars or Shelby American, and was not placed in the Registry by the Registrar, but by the Editor.
Thank you for setting the record straight Ned.
That was what I´m looking for, thanks Ned.
Quote from: Cobra Ned on November 15, 2021, 08:02:27 AM
Has an assigned VIN that attempts to mimic the initial COB/COX numbers, but uses a zero in place of the letter O. Was never built as a Cobra by AC Cars or Shelby American, and was not placed in the Registry by the Registrar, but by the Editor.
:o
Quote from: Cobra Ned on November 15, 2021, 08:02:27 AM
Has an assigned VIN that attempts to mimic the initial COB/COX numbers, but uses a zero in place of the letter O. Was never built as a Cobra by AC Cars or Shelby American, and was not placed in the Registry by the Registrar, but by the Editor.
So are you saying that is not the example chassis built by S/A and the car is a fraud ?
I don't think it is a fraud, but it is an original chassis (or at least frame, since I think the hot rod version of it killed the original suspension parts) with a non original VIN, engine, trans and body. . . Make of that what you will. Cool car and I had some interest in it, but I didn't know what to make of it.
The worst thing I can say about this car is that it was auctioned by Fantasy Junction, I think, on BAT some time ago. No reserve auction and, by the BAT comments, the owner shilled it without Fantasy Junction's knowledge. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Read the auction comments on BAT and that'll be an hour of your life you will never get back . . .
John
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 11:32:18 AM
I don't think it is a fraud, but it is an original chassis (or at least frame, since I think the hot rod version of it killed the original suspension parts) with a non original VIN, engine, trans and body. . . Make of that what you will. Cool car and I had some interest in it, but I didn't know what to make of it.
The worst thing I can say about this car is that it was auctioned by Fantasy Junction, I think, on BAT some time ago. No reserve auction and, by the BAT comments, the owner shilled it without Fantasy Junction's knowledge. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Read the auction comments on BAT and that'll be an hour of your life you will never get back . . .
John
Everything that you and Ned wrote is in the ebay listing. Unless Ned is going to say that's not the original chassis, what's the problem?
Quote from: 427hunter on November 15, 2021, 11:41:10 AM
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 11:32:18 AM
I don't think it is a fraud, but it is an original chassis (or at least frame, since I think the hot rod version of it killed the original suspension parts) with a non original VIN, engine, trans and body. . . Make of that what you will. Cool car and I had some interest in it, but I didn't know what to make of it.
The worst thing I can say about this car is that it was auctioned by Fantasy Junction, I think, on BAT some time ago. No reserve auction and, by the BAT comments, the owner shilled it without Fantasy Junction's knowledge. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Read the auction comments on BAT and that'll be an hour of your life you will never get back . . .
John
Everything that you and Ned wrote is in the ebay listing. Unless Ned is going to say that's not the original chassis, what's the problem?
Except for the owner shilling an auction. That part isn't in there, so everything isn't there.
That said, I like the car, and was somewhat interested in it. I just couldn't figure out if it was the cheapest Cobra out there, or the most expensive replica . . .
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 01:17:47 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on November 15, 2021, 11:41:10 AM
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 11:32:18 AM
I don't think it is a fraud, but it is an original chassis (or at least frame, since I think the hot rod version of it killed the original suspension parts) with a non original VIN, engine, trans and body. . . Make of that what you will. Cool car and I had some interest in it, but I didn't know what to make of it.
The worst thing I can say about this car is that it was auctioned by Fantasy Junction, I think, on BAT some time ago. No reserve auction and, by the BAT comments, the owner shilled it without Fantasy Junction's knowledge. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Read the auction comments on BAT and that'll be an hour of your life you will never get back . . .
John
Everything that you and Ned wrote is in the ebay listing. Unless Ned is going to say that's not the original chassis, what's the problem?
Except for the owner shilling an auction. That part isn't in there, so everything isn't there.
That said, I like the car, and was somewhat interested in it. I just couldn't figure out if it was the cheapest Cobra out there, or the most expensive replica . . .
What does that have to do with the chassis ?
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 11:32:18 AM
I don't think it is a fraud, but it is an original chassis (or at least frame, since I think the hot rod version of it killed the original suspension parts) with a non original VIN, engine, trans and body. . . Make of that what you will. Cool car and I had some interest in it, but I didn't know what to make of it.
The worst thing I can say about this car is that it was auctioned by Fantasy Junction, I think, on BAT some time ago. No reserve auction and, by the BAT comments, the owner shilled it without Fantasy Junction's knowledge. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Read the auction comments on BAT and that'll be an hour of your life you will never get back . . .
John
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1964-ac-289-show-chassis-cobra/
Yup ::)
Quote from: 427hunter on November 15, 2021, 01:22:41 PM
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 01:17:47 PM
Quote from: 427hunter on November 15, 2021, 11:41:10 AM
Quote from: JohnHouston on November 15, 2021, 11:32:18 AM
I don't think it is a fraud, but it is an original chassis (or at least frame, since I think the hot rod version of it killed the original suspension parts) with a non original VIN, engine, trans and body. . . Make of that what you will. Cool car and I had some interest in it, but I didn't know what to make of it.
The worst thing I can say about this car is that it was auctioned by Fantasy Junction, I think, on BAT some time ago. No reserve auction and, by the BAT comments, the owner shilled it without Fantasy Junction's knowledge. Ugly, ugly, ugly. Read the auction comments on BAT and that'll be an hour of your life you will never get back . . .
John
Everything that you and Ned wrote is in the ebay listing. Unless Ned is going to say that's not the original chassis, what's the problem?
Except for the owner shilling an auction. That part isn't in there, so everything isn't there.
That said, I like the car, and was somewhat interested in it. I just couldn't figure out if it was the cheapest Cobra out there, or the most expensive replica . . .
What does that have to do with the chassis ?
Not one little thing. Nor did I say, or even imply, it did. Please reread, as I started with "I don't think it is a fraud .. ." That means what it says. Like I said, the tough question for me is not what it isn't, but what it is??? Cheap Cobra? Expensive replica?
I think this is one of those cars that can get you sued if you let the truth be known since it would affect the inflated value/story. If I remember AC cars stamped numbers in many places and on several major parts. If they are all missing I'd suspect an AC Ace chassis is being foisted off as a Cobra.
Sounds like the car has basically been built off what was originally just a display piece. It never was originally a Cobra, and it was never assigned a VIN by AC or Shelby.
In which case, my thought is you're buying the car for what it is a replica built on a correct frame. You're not buying it for the history necessarily, which is where the value of original cobras separate from some of the most correct replicas. It's fairly well listed about the history in the auction, but it's easy to get excited and overlook 1 detail (although I hope anyone spending $250k is detailed).
What I don't like, is that whoever created it into what it is now, has attempted to confuse and deceive an unknowing buyer by requesting and entering a VIN so close to an original Cobra. Changing an O to a 0 is a common trick people use to bypass or cause confusion. Now that it's been done though, it's tough to undo as the car has an established history under it's current VIN.
I didn't get the chance to read the full BaT auction but sounds like the owner was inflating his auction. Just shows the owner doesn't have much integrity and is willing to go to extreme measures to inflate the value of his car versus selling it for what it is and how it is.
Quote from: fastpace on November 15, 2021, 02:43:22 PMsounds like the owner was inflating his auction. Just shows the owner doesn't have much integrity and is willing to go to extreme measures to inflate the value of his car versus selling it for what it is and how it is.
Any seller can/will/might/should (use what you want) hype his car. It's about putting the max amount of $$$ in his pocket. It's up to the buyer to sort it out and pass/buy/offer on his own findings. Bottom line buy the car not the story.
""Sounds like the car has basically been built off what was originally just a display piece. It never was originally a Cobra, and it was never assigned a VIN by AC or Shelby. ""
Exactly , from there buyer is deciding if this car worth more or less than a "continuation csx " or kirkham replica ...and bid on it or no !
"It was sent in 1965 to Cal Automotive, a Shelby subcontractor, where a Ford T-bucket body was installed. The car was then registered for street use, and later in the mid-1990s was fitted with a hand-formed aluminum Cobra body by Kimmins Custom Fabrication of Lake Havasu City, Arizona. After being raced in the late-1990s, it received a refresh and was assigned chassis number COB5998."
In 1965 it had a T-Bucket Body installed and Registered for Street use SO, wouldn't that mean the DMV assigned a VIN# to it? If so, how could another Company assign another VIN# to it?
That is a very good question I asked myself before posting it here.
Manufacturers in the U.S. are required to assign a VIN to all "saleable" vehicles by federal law. The law sets parameters on what the VIN must consist of. I'm not sure when the requirement went into effect, but VINs have been assigned since at least the 1950s-early 60s. (I'm not as familiar with pre-50s vehicles) Some sort of ID number had been used even before the VIN requirement.
Some "non-saleable' vehicles are produced, usually for testing, shows, etc. that do not have a VIN assigned from the manufacturer. Generally, they are destroyed when their purpose is fulfilled. Occasionally, some make it "out" to the public in various ways.
"Second stage" manufacturers, like Shelby American, can issue VINs in certain circumstances. Another place where you might see this is with truck body and specialty vehicle manufacturers.
States can issue VINs as well. Most states have a procedure to issue a new VIN to a vehicle that has been substantially altered from it's original manufacture. The states set the parameters on what this involves. This is used for wrecks, "salvage" vehicles, etc. An example of where a state issued VIN might be required to title/register a vehicle would be when replacing the original body with a new one.
Quote from: 5566 on November 17, 2021, 09:30:02 AM
Manufacturers in the U.S. are required to assign a VIN to all "saleable" vehicles by federal law. The law sets parameters on what the VIN must consist of. I'm not sure when the requirement went into effect, but VINs have been assigned since at least the 1950s-early 60s. (I'm not as familiar with pre-50s vehicles) Some sort of ID number had been used even before the VIN requirement.
Starting on January 1, 1969, all passenger cars manufactured in the United States or manufactured overseas on or after January 1, 1969, and subsequently imported into the United States were required to have a VIN.
In 1981 they added the 17 digit requirement and standardized the VIN for all manufacturers.
In 1987 they were also required to mark major components with the VIN.
Before 1969 the numbers were mainly for the manufacturer to keep track of production and warranty - they really didn't care if your car was located after it was stolen. Depending on the dealer/state/fluke cars could be registered by the body number or engine number. 50s Studebakers are a prime example where you run into paperwork that no longer matches the car due to the engine having been changed. I had a 54 that had been registered with the engine and now had a Chevy in it. The factory museum still had the build card so I was able to show DMV and get it re assigned the body number on the registration.