Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/
Am I just being an a-hole? ???
Quote from: Shelby_0022 on April 23, 2018, 08:02:13 PM
Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/
I'm I just being an a-hole? ???
It certainly looks like a nut and bolt restoration, the only question is who's concours rules did they follow. Most of us here are biased and will say it does not meet SAAC standards when we see those obvious mistakes. It would probably do just fine at a concours d elegance type show.
You're educated in basic factory specs, not picky...there's a difference. If you were rude to the seller that would put you on the other side.
I know a little about the car. I have spoken to the owner, who restored it. Nice guy but he is a correct expert. He owns Penn-Ohio Corvettes. They restored it. A few things incorrect. Painted the four speed blue, used repro interior, etc. They did use a scott fuller exhaust.
Quote from: Chad on April 23, 2018, 08:38:02 PM
I know a little about the car. I have spoken to the owner, who restored it. Nice guy but he is a correct expert. He owns Penn-Ohio Corvettes. They restored it. A few things incorrect. Painted the four speed blue, used repro interior, etc. They did use a scott fuller exhaust.
Workmanship translates well across the board between car marques.The restorer most likely does Corvettes correct as you say. Some restorers (not all) or people who admire their work think that because they have knowledge in one car Marque means that they think it is no problem for them to have the same level of knowledge in others. I am not saying that is the case here because I don't know the restorer. I do know however that there are more then just a few things incorrect on this Shelby besides the hidden Shelby 101 things you mentioned. It still looks to be a extremly nice car incorrect detailing not withstanding.
Absolutely love that color combo
That sure is a beauty, lets not kick out the SUPER MODELS from our party because she has a pimple somewhere... ;)
Quote from: 427heaven on April 23, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
That sure is a beauty, lets not kick out the SUPER MODELS from our party because she has a pimple somewhere... ;)
I hear ya. But, with an estimate of $225K to $250K... feels more like MRSA versus a pimple. ;)
Quote from: Shelby_0022 on April 23, 2018, 08:02:13 PM
Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/
Am I just being an a-hole? ???
SO, what you are saying is, NO 1967 Shelby with "Over The Top" Stripes should ever be in a Concours Class? Weren't many of them Dealer Installed? Isn't Dealer Installed items allowed and accepted?
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 24, 2018, 06:55:09 AM
Quote from: Shelby_0022 on April 23, 2018, 08:02:13 PM
Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/
Am I just being an a-hole? ???
SO, what you are saying is, NO 1967 Shelby with "Over The Top" Stripes should ever be in a Concours Class? Weren't many of them Dealer Installed? Isn't Dealer Installed items allowed and accepted?
Others chime in, if I'm wrong, but to SAAC the word "Concours" is synonymous with a car being in the condition it would have been when it left the factory. No 67s were delivered with top stripes from the factory; therefore, there is a significant point deduction for having top stripes on a 67 in SAAC judging.
Last year at SAAC 42, there was a BEAUTIFUL 67 that was judged, but received a large deduction for top stripes. There was almost no way that car could have gotten Gold with the top stripes, if I remember correctly, based on that point deduction.
I'm not saying that a 67 with tops stripes shouldn't be in a concours class. What I am saying is that people tend to throw the word "Concours" around without regard for the particulars of a true concours car. And, for those who don't know what they are looking at, it can diminish the value of being a true "concours" car and / or raise the perceived value of the car inappropriately.
BTW - I LOVE a good "Day 2" car. I just don't like when someone calls it "Concours".
Just my thoughts :)
Concours is still used as a generic term describing the condition of the car.
Maybe it should be used in lower case as an indication?
Quote from: Shelby_0022 on April 24, 2018, 08:31:35 AM
Others chime in, if I'm wrong, but to SAAC the word "Concours" is synonymous with a car being in the condition it would have been when it left the factory. No 67s were delivered with top stripes from the factory; therefore, there is a significant point deduction for having top stripes on a 67 in SAAC judging.
Last year at SAAC 42, there was a BEAUTIFUL 67 that was judged, but received a large deduction for top stripes. There was almost no way that car could have gotten Gold with the top stripes, if I remember correctly, based on that point deduction.
I'm not saying that a 67 with tops stripes shouldn't be in a concours class. What I am saying is that people tend to throw the word "Concours" around without regard for the particulars of a true concours car. And, for those who don't know what they are looking at, it can diminish the value of being a true "concours" car and / or raise the perceived value of the car inappropriately.
BTW - I LOVE a good "Day 2" car. I just don't like when someone calls it "Concours".
Just my thoughts :)
Quote from: shelbydoug on April 24, 2018, 10:01:42 AM
Concours is still used as a generic term describing the condition of the car.
Maybe it should be used in lower case as an indication?
I agree with both above. Not that the stripes will keep a car out of judging but they will cause a points deduction UNLESS there is documentation stating the stripes were added prior to delivery to the first owner. That documentation is rare, as Bob G and others have stated the term "dealer installed" is often used to wave a magic wand for erasing an issue.
Add the stripes if you want/like them (it's your car and preference) but in SAAC judging they may (without documentation) deduct from the points so don't be surprise if/when it happens.
By the way, how many Points are deducted and is it that same Number Automatically?
There are some of these cars that are in some eyes more desirable as "Day 2" cars because people want to actually drive them and in many cases drive them hard.
In SOME cases, putting them back to exactly stock does not make them more driveable.
A good example of that to me would be putting Goodyear Polyglass tires on the car.
So the answer is that there is no simple answer or simple formula. It really depends on the situation and if there was a person that "had to have a '67 WITH Lemans stripes" because it made it more enjoyable to drive and own, the car is more desirable, there is the answer for that person.
From what I am seeing, that seems to bare out in the "marketplace" ? Very high points "Concourse" cars are not necessarily more valuable at resale then an accurate "driveable" car is.
Because seemingly every buyer is different, there is little that is completely predictable except possibly, a "completely wrong" car?
Quote from: shelbydoug on April 24, 2018, 12:57:26 PM
There are some of these cars that are in some eyes more desirable as "Day 2" cars because people want to actually drive them and in many cases drive them hard.
In SOME cases, putting them back to exactly stock does not make them more driveable.
A good example of that to me would be putting Goodyear Polyglass tires on the car.
So the answer is that there is no simple answer or simple formula. It really depends on the situation and if there was a person that "had to have a '67 WITH Lemans stripes" because it made it more enjoyable to drive and own, the car is more desirable, there is the answer for that person.
From what I am seeing, that seems to bare out in the "marketplace" ? Very high points "Concourse" cars are not necessarily more valuable at resale then an accurate "driveable" car is.
Because seemingly every buyer is different, there is little that is completely predictable except possibly, a "completely wrong" car?
Yes, there is nothing wrong with day 2 mods if that is your intent. In the case of the car #702 that is not the case . This is a extremely nice car. It is obvious the intent was to try and return the car to a state of factory stock. The context in which Mecum uses the word "Concours"in relation to the description of Concours is no doubt referring to factory stock. It is not a generic term for excellence in this instance. The fact that the auction company makes claims of a concours nut and bolt restoration is what is in contention and why some negative comments were made . The top end retail price expected had something to do with it also. When you claim a high standard like the Mecum description does and with a hefty price you had better be the high standard or if not expect push back. With the obvious factory looking intent in mind there are a number of Shelby 101 mistakes that can be seen in the engine compartment. If the same percentage of mistakes in detailing are on the unseen underside, suspension ,and trunk given the already mentioned non correct items as are in the engine compartment I would guesstimate given my judging background a high bronze level car. Other judges may think differently. That would be at a SAAC or MCA national show. Maybe be a little more and it may be a little less. That is still heads and shoulders over 98 percent of the cars like it out there. It is not any higher most likely because of lack of knowledge of Shelby/ Mustang assemblyline build techniques that the restorer didn't have.The restorer may have more knowledge with other makes and models. Good workmanship appears evident in the pictures from what can be seen even with the detail shortcomings.Just trying to explain the reason why there was push back on the "Concours" details.
Guys I am not trying to kick this car because it is a beautiful, good car and my favorite color combination, but it has a lot of correcting to be done to it. Front suspension is repo. They did save the rear leaf spring that has the numbers on it but then used repop front suspension. So they tried to do the correct thing but when it got to be to much trouble they used repop. It has had a full floor put in as well. I only say this because I do not want anyone on the forum to pay big bucks and then have to spend $40,000 to correct everything.
I really did my due diligence on this car because I was interested in buying it. There are more things that need to be fixed that I have not listed. The reserve if very high and and when you add up everything that needs to be corrected you will be upside down.
I am seeing a lot of very helpful information in these posts.
Much appreciated I am sure by any potential interested parties, as well as members in general wanting to be educated.
Thanks All.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 24, 2018, 03:00:37 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on April 24, 2018, 12:57:26 PM
There are some of these cars that are in some eyes more desirable as "Day 2" cars because people want to actually drive them and in many cases drive them hard.
In SOME cases, putting them back to exactly stock does not make them more driveable.
A good example of that to me would be putting Goodyear Polyglass tires on the car.
So the answer is that there is no simple answer or simple formula. It really depends on the situation and if there was a person that "had to have a '67 WITH Lemans stripes" because it made it more enjoyable to drive and own, the car is more desirable, there is the answer for that person.
From what I am seeing, that seems to bare out in the "marketplace" ? Very high points "Concourse" cars are not necessarily more valuable at resale then an accurate "driveable" car is.
Because seemingly every buyer is different, there is little that is completely predictable except possibly, a "completely wrong" car?
Yes, there is nothing wrong with day 2 mods if that is your intent. In the case of the car #702 that is not the case . This is a extremely nice car. It is obvious the intent was to try and return the car to a state of factory stock. The context in which Mecum uses the word "Concours"in relation to the description of Concours is no doubt referring to factory stock. It is not a generic term for excellence in this instance. The fact that the auction company makes claims of a concours nut and bolt restoration is what is in contention and why some negative comments were made . The top end retail price expected had something to do with it also. When you claim a high standard like the Mecum description does and with a hefty price you had better be the high standard or if not expect push back. With the obvious factory looking intent in mind there are a number of Shelby 101 mistakes that can be seen in the engine compartment. If the same percentage of mistakes in detailing are on the unseen underside, suspension ,and trunk given the already mentioned non correct items as are in the engine compartment I would guesstimate given my judging background a high bronze level car. Other judges may think differently. That would be at a SAAC or MCA national show. Maybe be a little more and it may be a little less. That is still heads and shoulders over 98 percent of the cars like it out there. It is not any higher most likely because of lack of knowledge of Shelby/ Mustang assemblyline build techniques that the restorer didn't have.The restorer may have more knowledge with other makes and models. Good workmanship appears evident in the pictures from what can be seen even with the detail shortcomings.Just trying to explain the reason why there was push back on the "Concours" details.
I don't disagree at all with any of your statement. I would go further and say that the seller is knowledgeable in the usage of the word Concours.
There should be pushback and am relieved that the secret police have restricted operations severely lately.
Establishing a value is always a question and regardless of who is asked opinions vary widely.
They are very much like the commodities market, i.e., are soy beans up or down today?
Quote from: shelbydoug on April 24, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
I don't disagree at all with any of your statement. I would go further and say that the seller is knowledgeable in the usage of the word Concours.
There should be pushback and am relieved that the secret police have restricted operations severely lately.
Establishing a value is always a question and regardless of who is asked opinions vary widely.
They are very much like the commodities market, i.e., are soy beans up or down today?
That is because Randy G. is waiting on ACSCO for Official badges to be made, Pete D. to build a jail cell in his shop and others are on the hunt for a affordable wood chipper for the worst offenders. There has been a lot to do. ::) ;D
I understand. ;)
It is a very nice car. I could not help but notice it does not have a correct thermostat housing....
Pat
Quote from: azdriver on April 24, 2018, 07:27:17 PM
It is a very nice car. I could not help but notice it does not have a correct thermostat housing....
Pat
Yup!
I've been in a couple of judging situations where the item was suggested to be "Dealer installed". O-K then, show me the receipt.
Would be nice to see some undercarriage shots or even trunk shots in the ad. ::)
The red oxide peeking out in the front wheel well attracts the eye and questions IMHO
Wonder if the car was "restored" in the mid west or the north east part of the country given some of the details
There are NE details? Does it have anything to do with the snow? :o
Quote from: roddster on April 24, 2018, 09:57:07 PM
I've been in a couple of judging situations where the item was suggested to be "Dealer installed". O-K then, show me the receipt.
That's what I was asking. If a Customer wanted a Shelby and said I will buy it if you add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work, would the LeMans Stripes STILL receive a Deduction? In either case, WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 25, 2018, 07:39:11 AM
Quote from: roddster on April 24, 2018, 09:57:07 PM
I've been in a couple of judging situations where the item was suggested to be "Dealer installed". O-K then, show me the receipt.
That's what I was asking. If a Customer wanted a Shelby and said I will buy it if you add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work, would the LeMans Stripes STILL receive a Deduction? In either case, WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?
As stated in reply #10:
Not that the stripes will keep a car out of judging but they will cause
a points deduction UNLESS there is documentation stating the stripes were added prior to delivery to the first owner. That documentation will need to be as you stated
"...add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work,..." on the selling dealers paper work from the time.
Quote from: JD on April 25, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 25, 2018, 07:39:11 AM
Quote from: roddster on April 24, 2018, 09:57:07 PM
I've been in a couple of judging situations where the item was suggested to be "Dealer installed". O-K then, show me the receipt.
That's what I was asking. If a Customer wanted a Shelby and said I will buy it if you add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work, would the LeMans Stripes STILL receive a Deduction? In either case, WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?
As stated in reply #10:
Not that the stripes will keep a car out of judging but they will cause a points deduction UNLESS there is documentation stating the stripes were added prior to delivery to the first owner.
That documentation will need to be as you stated "...add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work,..." on the selling dealers paper work from the time.
BUT, I am still waiting on an answer to my original question........"
WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?"
what about the pinchweld rocker blackout.
Perkins/Cowles the heads of the judging would be the ones to answer that...
(maybe Bob G will comment as to what the current thinking is on the subject)
Quote from: 427heaven on April 23, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
That sure is a beauty, lets not kick out the SUPER MODELS from our party because she has a pimple somewhere... ;)
Great line!
Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 25, 2018, 09:00:45 AM
Quote from: JD on April 25, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 25, 2018, 07:39:11 AM
Quote from: roddster on April 24, 2018, 09:57:07 PM
I've been in a couple of judging situations where the item was suggested to be "Dealer installed". O-K then, show me the receipt.
That's what I was asking. If a Customer wanted a Shelby and said I will buy it if you add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work, would the LeMans Stripes STILL receive a Deduction? In either case, WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?
As stated in reply #10:
Not that the stripes will keep a car out of judging but they will cause a points deduction UNLESS there is documentation stating the stripes were added prior to delivery to the first owner.
That documentation will need to be as you stated "...add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work,..." on the selling dealers paper work from the time.
BUT, I am still waiting on an answer to my original question........" WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?"
I can't answer that. Only the judges can BUT I think what it would come down to would be IF ALL THINGS WERE GIVEN EQUAL, a car going for gold with stripes is not going to be permitted to beat a car without stripes. Therefore the point deduction would be appropriate to produce those results.
Does that mean that the Judges would conspire? No. Conference. Synonyms with similar meanings but still different enough to avoid a Grand Jury returning an indictment. Theoretically. Depends on who's sitting on that Jury? ;)
Quote from: 2112 on April 25, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?
Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.
What is really funny is how often we see "with the rare stripe delete option". Always makes me laugh!
Quote from: gt350cs on April 25, 2018, 12:49:07 PM
What is really funny is how often we see "with the rare stripe delete option". Always makes me laugh!
Amen to that! I remember an episode of "What's My Car Worth" where they were highlighting a white 1967 Shelby GT500. And, Keith Martin referred to it as a "rare stripe delete". ::)
Also, the representative thought the car would hammer for $215K, Keith said $150K...it hammered for $130K.
I'm just going to add that it depends on the judging team, and it depends on the show, and it depends if it is a National show, regional, local. I'm also going to add that some of us are just judging the car to the written standards. If not, then lets just go back to the old 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
Quote from: tesgt350 on April 25, 2018, 09:00:45 AM
BUT, I am still waiting on an answer to my original question........" WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?"
Not sure what you mean by "automatic"
If the detail is not original to the car and per the rules then I guess you could apply the word or use "expected" at an annual convention
Are the points always the same every year? I would expect (don't judge that class but I can draw from experiences) that since it's pretty much the same team every year that there is a typical number of points taken on those items that they see over and over based on how great an impact the item is to the others in the same category and how many points total in that category. This is referred to a weighted deductions
The challenge here is has there been enough 67's shown at SAAC annually for the team to establish a pattern or common practice. Given the cars in the past I'm not sure if there have been many 67's shown at the annual national show as the expectations are high and the word gets out.
Just what I've seen and would expect given my experiences with the members of the judging team but can't speak for them or others feelings and experiences may differ :)
Towards the bottom of the description they state this car is one of only 35 shipped without the smog equipment. Can't be true, is it?
T-bones68:
My records indicate about 97 GT350 with smog and 496 GT500 including the red GT500 convertible.
Still trying to reconfirm my numbers and could be off, but not by much.
Dennis
Quote from: T-Bone68 on May 04, 2018, 09:41:58 AM
Towards the bottom of the description they state this car is one of only 35 shipped without the smog equipment. Can't be true, is it?
It would show in the Shelby serial number.
It would read67400xxxxx. The last zero would indicate a "base car" built with no thermactor. Acar with thermactor would be a 2 instead of a 0.
This is how the factory kept track of the models built and available.
If it has a 2 AND the seller is claiming it was delivered without the thermactor that IS NOT CONSISTANT with what we know about these cars. Mecum is not stating the entire serial number. That's more a reflection on their lack of specific knowledge rather then a security issue. If they claim security, that just shows further indication of their ignorance on the subject.
Caution should always prevail and ask them for the entire Shelby serial number.
I would think that there are more BASE models built than anything else? Thermactor cars would go to states that required them like California. My car, 3074, which was sent to NY did not and as such is a 400 car.
My Registry shows this car as 67400F8U00702. That's a "base 4 speed model". No air. No Thermactor. Brittany blue. Parchment interior. No Lemans stripes. ;)
The way they have written the specs tends to suggest ignorace on their part. That doesn't mean the car isn't legit, just that they are stupid.
Here's how they arrived at 1 of 35.
There's about 302 Brittany Blue GT500s
of those about 60 have parchment interiors
of those about 48 have speed transmissions
of those about 35 have no thermactor (400F packages)
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 25, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: 2112 on April 25, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?
Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.
I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.
Quote from: Richstang on May 04, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 25, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: 2112 on April 25, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?
Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.
I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.
As far as I know the SS stripe is a Mel Burns Ford add on. It is not something that was done at SA. It was done at Mel Burns Ford.
My car was originally sold by Gotham Ford. According to the original owner, who I spoke to, it was driven to LA by it's original owner. While there the car the car was serviced at Mel Burns Ford.
He didn't rember why the SS stripe was added to it, but it was.
The copy of the invoice that you want to see is the one that Dave Mathews has. I'm pretty sure those are the copies of the SA invoices the cars shipped with, not something a dealer added on.
This is a similar controversy as a "dealer installed 427".
Stating that the stripes are factory installed is more of an inaccuracy rather then out and out dishonesty.
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 04, 2018, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: Richstang on May 04, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 25, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: 2112 on April 25, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?
Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.
I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.
As far as I know the SS stripe is a Mel Burns Ford add on. It is not something that was done at SA. It was done at Mel Burns Ford.
My car was originally sold by Gotham Ford. According to the original owner, who I spoke to, it was driven to LA by it's original owner. While there the car the car was serviced at Mel Burns Ford.
He didn't rember why the SS stripe was added to it, but it was.
The copy of the invoice that you want to see is the one that Dave Mathews has. I'm pretty sure those are the copies of the SA invoices the cars shipped with, not something a dealer added on.
This is a similar controversy as a "dealer installed 427".
Stating that the stripes are factory installed is more of an inaccuracy rather then out and out dishonesty.
First off at least in my post I mentioned Mel Burns Ford produced the Super Snake (which includes the stripes). The work was blessed by SA for all practical purposes as a extension of the factory effort.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on May 04, 2018, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: shelbydoug on May 04, 2018, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: Richstang on May 04, 2018, 11:26:31 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 25, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Quote from: 2112 on April 25, 2018, 09:36:08 AM
Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?
Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.
I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.
As far as I know the SS stripe is a Mel Burns Ford add on. It is not something that was done at SA. It was done at Mel Burns Ford.
My car was originally sold by Gotham Ford. According to the original owner, who I spoke to, it was driven to LA by it's original owner. While there the car the car was serviced at Mel Burns Ford.
He didn't rember why the SS stripe was added to it, but it was.
The copy of the invoice that you want to see is the one that Dave Mathews has. I'm pretty sure those are the copies of the SA invoices the cars shipped with, not something a dealer added on.
This is a similar controversy as a "dealer installed 427".
Stating that the stripes are factory installed is more of an inaccuracy rather then out and out dishonesty.
First off at least in my post I mentioned Mel Burns Ford produced the Super Snake (which includes the stripes). The work was blessed by SA for all practical purposes as a extension of the factory effort.
Yes you did. All absolutely true as is not factory installed. Accuracy is important isn't it?