Quick question: Twice I have experienced the situation where the car wouldn't turn off when I switched the ignition key to off, and even removed the key! The first time, I replaced the starter solenoid even though I suspected it was probably the ignition switch. It didn't happen for a few months. Last Saturday, it happened again.
Has anyone else ever had this happen to their Ford product? I have an NOS switch, so I guess it's time to swap it out already.
Easy enough job?
Thanks!
I had this happen once or twice back in the day with Fords I owned, and it was a key / ignition switch problem.
Whenever I put the repro Autolite solenoid on (for judging) it will keep running or starter will keep starting if I forget to change it back to the NAPA solenoid. >:(
TOB
It's easier with the cluster out, but can be done without.
1. Disconnect battery.
2. Remove lock cylinder. With key in ACC position, there will be a small pin visible in the hole below the key. Push the pin in with a small wire, I usually use a small paper clip. While holding that pin in, rotate the key further counter-clockwise, past where it would normally stop and the cylinder will come out.
3. Remove ignition switch by pulling it towards the dash, compressing the spring. Rotate switch, while holding bezel from turning. It works kind of like a bulb with the 2 pins, push in and rotate 1/8 turn.
4. Change over wires and re-install.
So we are not talking about "dieseling " here.
Has happened to me and can be solenoid or ignition but once it was a stuck starter. At least that was partly to blame. "perfect storm."
That was not any fun and you will smell it.
To be safe I removed and installed all 3 with new and NOS.
Solenoid would be my guess. (could be out of adjustment or has/is failing)
Quote from: Bigfoot on April 17, 2018, 09:41:48 AM
So we are not talking about "dieseling " here.
No, Biggie. I could walk away with the key and it would run for another hour. Comical actually.
Quote from: JD on April 17, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
Solenoid would be my guess. (could be out of adjustment or has/is failing)
JD, do you think even though I just replaced it a month ago? To stop it, I removed the back upper connector from the solenoid. When I replaced it, it started up just fine with no issues. Now it operates perfectly. I'm thinking it's a Gremlin. ;D
I had a similar occurrence about 7 years ago. (I just stood on the brakes and popped the clutch to stall the car)
After checking around it seems that some of the more correct looking solenoids would do that. I replaced it with one that was not as correct in appearance but others had said they had no issues with and every thing was fine after that.
Could be the solenoid?
Quote from: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: JD on April 17, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
Solenoid would be my guess. (could be out of adjustment or has/is failing)
JD, do you think even though I just replaced it a month ago? To stop it, I removed the back upper connector from the solenoid. When I replaced it, it started up just fine with no issues. Now it operates perfectly. I'm thinking it's a Gremlin. ;D
Solenoid gets its activating power from the ignition switch. The solenoid doesn't regulate power the coil (which keeps car running) . The ignition switch regulates power to the coil. A very defective solenoid could back flow power to the ignition switch I suppose but Ignition switch is still the most likely culprit given the symptoms .
Brian,
I had the same problem with my 66. Changed the ignition switch and the problem was solved.
Greek
Is there a good replacement ignition switch or do you need to search for a NOS unit?
Are they rebuildable?
Quote from: 2112 on April 17, 2018, 01:03:50 PM
Is there a good replacement ignition switch or do you need to search for a NOS unit?
Are they rebuildable?
Just about any parts store would have one. I would try NAPA Echlin first. They are common in a lot of Fords in the 60's. Tricky to change if you have never done it before, but nothing you can't handle. I wouldn't waste my time trying to rebuild one....they are cheap to buy and hidden under the dash.
Quote from: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: JD on April 17, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
Solenoid would be my guess. (could be out of adjustment or has/is failing)
To stop it, I removed the back upper connector from the solenoid.
Solenoid battery connection remained connected to the 'I' terminal after starting. Remove that wire and engine stops. If that's true then coil getting full voltage all the time. Or a feedback loop if there is a Pertronix involved.
Quote from: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: JD on April 17, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
Solenoid would be my guess. (could be out of adjustment or has/is failing)
JD, do you think even though I just replaced it a month ago? To stop it, I removed the back upper connector from the solenoid. When I replaced it, it started up just fine with no issues. Now it operates perfectly. I'm thinking it's a Gremlin. ;D
Brian, which wire did you remove to shut it off? On the solenoid there are 2 small wires on the front. They are marked "S" & "I" for starter and ignition. The "S" wire gets 12 volts from the ignition switch activating the solenoid. This energizes the starter and gives the coil 12 volts through the "I" terminal, but only when the engine is cranking. When the key is released to the run position, the ignition switch sends 12 volts through the pink resistor wire to the coil. The resistor wire knocks the voltage down to 5-6 volts.
Paul, it stopped immediately once I removed the 'I' terminal wire.
Quote from: Bigblock on April 17, 2018, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: JD on April 17, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
Solenoid would be my guess. (could be out of adjustment or has/is failing)
To stop it, I removed the back upper connector from the solenoid.
Solenoid battery connection remained connected to the 'I' terminal after starting. Remove that wire and engine stops. If that's true then coil getting full voltage all the time. Or a feedback loop if there is a Pertronix involved.
Would that also explain why a tachometer isn't working in a car with a Pertronix unit?
Next time it happens try rapping the solenoid with screwdriver handle - if it shuts off the solenoid probably sticking.
QuoteWould that also explain why a tachometer isn't working in a car with a Pertronix unit?
Maybe a clue. Under normal circumstances in the run position, the coil gets its power from ignition through the tach then thru the pink resistor wire to the underhood wiring. If the tach or resistor wire opens up the car won't stay running when key is returned from start to run position.
If your Pertronix and coil is wired separately to ignition by passing the tach/resistor wire circuit it could run with an open tach or resistor wire.
Proper way to run a Pertronix is to bypass resistor wire for power to the Pertronix unit, and to leave the pink resistor wire source to the battery side of the coil - especially if using original yellow top.
Pertronix throws another variable into the mix. Which coil are you using? Tach gets hooked up between the ign switch and the pink resistor wire. If you have a 12 volt coil, the resistor wire may be bypassed and explain the tach not working.
I forget what the inside of the solenoid looks like. There were pictures on here BC (before crash). I don't know if it's possible to have just the "I" terminal stay energized and not the starter.
Removing the "I" wire stopped it, but, it's still possible it supplied 12 volts to the coil when it was reconnected. What kind of solenoid did you put in? Did you hold the studs from turning when tightening the nuts? If the studs rotate, it screws them up.
(http://www.saacforum.com/gallery/267-170418125949.jpeg)
Let's face it, Brian - you're car's not a quitter! ;D
Good one Ruben. Paul, I was careful about not breaking the studs during tightening. As for the electronic ignition system, the car has an MSD system installed years ago. It seems to work great. Still, it could be the issue I suppose.
Quote from: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 05:55:33 PM
Good one Ruben. Paul, I was careful about not breaking the studs during tightening. As for the electronic ignition system, the car has an MSD system installed years ago. It seems to work great. Still, it could be the issue I suppose.
In case your tach does not work right there is a MSD control that I had to add to get my 67 tach to work on a car I used to have. I can't find it at the moment or I would post a picture (or at least try). ;)
Sorry, I can't give much input on the Pertronics or MSD. I still run points in just about everything. I think some versions allow you to run the yellow top coil and the pink resistor wire, but still eliminate the points. The tach should work fine with that. Not sure about the others.
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 17, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
In case your tach does not work right there is a MSD control that I had to add to get my 67 tach to work on a car I used to have. I can't find it at the moment or I would post a picture (or at least try). ;)
Bob, bought and tried both of the tach adaptors units MSD offers for this issue, neither would get the tach to work. (they are both in one of the many boxes of parts with the car)
Quote from: JD on April 18, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 17, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
In case your tach does not work right there is a MSD control that I had to add to get my 67 tach to work on a car I used to have. I can't find it at the moment or I would post a picture (or at least try). ;)
Bob, bought and tried both of the tach adaptors units MSD offers for this issue, neither would get the tach to work. (they are both in one of the many boxes of parts with the car)
Sorry it didn't work for you but glad it worked for me. I thought it might be the answer to the problem in your old car.
Quote from: BGlover67 on April 17, 2018, 08:44:19 AM
Quick question: Twice I have experienced the situation where the car wouldn't turn off when I switched the ignition key to off, and even removed the key! The first time, I replaced the starter solenoid even though I suspected it was probably the ignition switch. It didn't happen for a few months. Last Saturday, it happened again.
Has anyone else ever had this happen to their Ford product? I have an NOS switch, so I guess it's time to swap it out already.
Easy enough job?
Thanks!
Time for a new ignition switch, if your NOS unit does not work (some do not out of the box new), additional NOS units can be had off Ebay, decent replacements from NAPA, similar parts houses, Mustang parts houses....With your Petronix unit and your non working tach, same question as below.
Start with fixing one issue at a time, then go from there.
Quote from: JD on April 18, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Quote from: Bob Gaines on April 17, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
In case your tach does not work right there is a MSD control that I had to add to get my 67 tach to work on a car I used to have. I can't find it at the moment or I would post a picture (or at least try). ;)
Bob, bought and tried both of the tach adaptors units MSD offers for this issue, neither would get the tach to work. (they are both in one of the many boxes of parts with the car)
Did the tach work beforehand?
Quote from: Bill on April 18, 2018, 06:41:53 AM
Did the tach work beforehand?
Bill, Yes.
As a side note, Tom H car #73 had the same issue, same set-up. He had a electrical guy get his working but Tom was not there to see what the guy did. Dropped the car off and picked it up later all working.
Dear BGLover67, If you followed all the ''Good Advice'' here, you will end up with a dissembled car on a lonely highway...alone.
Run-on, pre ignition, dieseling, post ignition, call it what you want, is caused by Hot carbon in your cylinder heads. if it were electrical the engine would follow the timing order. The next time this happens, lift the cap off the distributer, it will continue to run uneven. How do you fix;remove the heads & clean or drive the car like you stole it. Good luck young man.